“To be a Viking you have to eat like a Viking.”

1. I never said beef was bad, I like beef, I eat beef, what I did say is to assume that Beef is the end all and be all of a solid nutrition plan is just BS, even though beef has many good qualities, Iron, Protein, it also has some that are not that advantageous, saturated fat to name just one.

2. I have utilized the USRDA Nutrient Database for years and it is an excellent source for nutrient information, but there are other issues besides the nutrient content of a food as I pointed to earlier. Plus the USRDA Nutrient Database does not show the amount of known carcinogens in todays farm raised beef cattle. There are 258 different chemicals that are feed to the animals before it hits the super market. Of these chemicals, 48 are known to be carcinogenic. In normal amounts of ingestion this usually presents no problem, but to eat beef all day and night, well that perhaps leads to something else.

So again bottom line it is energy balance, not where the energy came from. It is also the individual and their predisposition to varying energy restrictions and surplus.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tom Treutlein @ Sep. 29 2004,1:30)]No way no how is more than 20x bodyweight in calories needed to grow muscle, unless maybe you're a complete ectomorph, through and through.
I eat 17-19x bodyweight and grow. I'm a mesomorph.
20x just to maintain? Hahahaha...right...
I hate a lot of studies and research.
Click to expand...
is that why you post things that arne't supported by any science? Like people need more fat for testoterone?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Sonny @ Sep. 29 2004,3:46)]What other food out there can provide like a piece on beef can?
NOTHING……..! PERIOD !
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Lastly, not to continue with this already lengthy debate but, what the heck, just out of my own curiousity, provide what?

Overall Calories
Protein
Carbs
Fat

Before you answer, please be specific because if I am going to take my time and look it up then I need to know what I am looking for.
 
OH ! Please! don’t use that old Gambit on me .
You can’t answer a question with a question.
Never mind!
You have answered it!
My last reply..
How infantile! I quit .

PS: Being specific is what got Socrates head chopped off !
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Sonny @ Sep. 29 2004,10:32)]OH ! Please! don’t use that old Gambit on me .
You can’t answer a question with a question.
Never mind!
You have answered it!
My last reply..
How infantile! I quit .
PS: Being specific is what got Socrates head chopped off !
Click to expand...
Socrates was the man. He proved everyone wrong in the end. They just refused to swollow their pride and except the truth for what it was. The shunded him out of fear. The only reason Socrates was beheaded was because he made people think outside the box. He made them see things for what they were, instead of what everyone thought they knew they where.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (MrNasty @ Sep. 29 2004,11:23)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Sonny @ Sep. 29 2004,10:32)]OH ! Please! don’t use that old Gambit on me .
You can’t answer a question with a question.
Never mind!
You have answered it!
My last reply..
How infantile! I quit .
PS: Being specific is what got Socrates head chopped off !
Click to expand...
Socrates was the man. He proved everyone wrong in the end. They just refused to swollow their pride and except the truth for what it was. The shunded him out of fear. The only reason Socrates was beheaded was because he made people think outside the box. He made them see things for what they were, instead of what everyone thought they knew they where.
Click to expand...
But did he eat beef?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Sonny @ Sep. 29 2004,9:32)]You can’t answer a question with a question.

How infantile! I quit .
Click to expand...
I wasn't being infantile or answering a question with a question, I was asking you to clarify what it was you were basing this assumption on, so I could, in my own mind, rationalyze whether it is correct by researching the statement. So if you choose not to indentify that, hey that's fine with me.

So save a chicken eat more beef :D

Or save a cow eat more chicken

Whichever is your preference
worship.gif
 
You are dragging me back into this!
To provide what you ask!
In addition, all I was trying to point out to Mr.Nasty was that he is most likely suffering from decencies, and I feel it a lack of proper natural minerals.
Zinc to be specific.
Moreover, you ended your last post with a? Mark.
Hence! A question to answer a question!
Those for starts, followed by minerals, amino’s, vitamins and yes FAT to help in the production of cholesterol ( the good one’s) which you know are building block for the production of testosterone !
“ You Stated…USRDA Nutrient Database does not show the amount of known carcinogens in today’s farm raised beef cattle. There are 258 different chemicals that are feed to the animals before it hits the super market. Of these chemicals, 48 are known to be carcinogenic. In normal amounts of ingestion this usually presents no problem, but to eat beef all day and night, well that perhaps leads to something else.”
This really makes me laugh! When you try to abridge the subject at hand
By trying to cloud it over with your babble again. When I’m probably right in my assumption that you have consume your share of roid’s and among other things
"Beef is the end all and be all of a solid nutrition plan "
I didn't even come close to saying that!!
You can’t seem to get off your high horse for one minute to see what the above statement proclaims about you.
1)that we all out here are a bunch of dumbasses and are going to eat beef like that.
Moreover, that Chicken doesn’t have the same crap in it.
Again we all must assume that we are all reasonable people when it comes to diet and exercise.
On the other hand, do you assume otherwise?
I think its a Full Moon Outside !
laugh.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Sonny @ Sep. 30 2004,9:25)]You are dragging me back into this!
To provide what you ask!
In addition, all I was trying to point out to Mr.Nasty was that he is most likely suffering from decencies, and I feel it a lack of proper natural minerals.
Zinc to be specific.
Moreover, you ended your last post with a? Mark.
Hence! A question to answer a question!
Those for starts, followed by minerals, amino’s, vitamins and yes FAT to help in the production of cholesterol ( the good one’s) which you know are building block for the production of testosterone !
“ You Stated…USRDA Nutrient Database does not show the amount of known carcinogens in today’s farm raised beef cattle. There are 258 different chemicals that are feed to the animals before it hits the super market. Of these chemicals, 48 are known to be carcinogenic. In normal amounts of ingestion this usually presents no problem, but to eat beef all day and night, well that perhaps leads to something else.”
This really makes me laugh! When you try to abridge the subject at hand
By trying to cloud it over with your babble again. When I’m probably right in my assumption that you have consume your share of roid’s and among other things
You can’t seem to get off your high horse for one minute to see what the above statement proclaims about you.
1)that we all out here are a bunch of dumbasses and are going to eat beef like that.
2)Moreover, that Chicken doesn’t have the same crap in it.
Again we all must assume that we are all reasonable people when it comes to diet and exercise.
On the other hand, do you assume otherwise?
I think its a Full Moon Outside !
laugh.gif
Click to expand...
Chill out, obviously you are unclear on what an open debate is. I am asking you to provide specifically what qualities it is that beef has that no other food can compare with, that's all. You made the statement not me. As I mentioned you have spiked my curiosity so know I would like to know.

You said you gave up and did not want to discuss it further; I said, "fine with me" I left it with that. I am fine with that but then you come back and insinuate I have consumed my fair share of roids. That's laughable for a few reasons. 1. What does it have to do with your statement and my responses? Nothing. So now it is you who cloud and divert the issue at hand not to mention attack at a personal level, which I have not done, ever nor will I ever allow myself to do so. 2. If you actually took the time to look at my posts you would have noticed that I do take Androgel as a HRT, but I do not take any illegal steroids or legal prohormones. If I had I would undoubtedly be a lot bigger than I am now. :) 3. Taking steroids does not make one any less intelligent or hinder their ability to take part in constructive debate.

Also my assumptions are not that most here are dumbasses on the contrary, again I have stated this many times, there are many here who are probably some of the most intelligent people in this sport/hobby.

Yes, my last statement there was a question, but it wasn't answering you, it was asking you to clarify, this sometimes happens when someone makes extremely vague statements.

Lastly if you wish to continue this debate then please provide the specifics, if not then that's fine too, I harbor you no ill will, I mean hey anyone who plays "Stairway to Heaven" on their web site can't be all bad, but please refrain from unjustified and uneducated personal attacks. Enjoy your beef; I know I enjoy mine, as well as my chicken, and fish.
 
"Chill out, obviously you are unclear on what an open debate is."
I really beg to differ!
Its you who is unclear !
"I am asking you to provide specifically what qualities it is that beef has that no other food can compare with, that's all."
And that is what I asked you on the eailer post to do .
"What other food out there can provide like a piece on beef can?"
I would assume you would have understood that we were talking about the combined nutrient content. What else could it be?
You tried to hand it back to me !
No! I have made myself perfectly clear."
Maybe we have a language barrer here !
Let me rephrase ................
Where can I go get a source of nutrients ie… minerals, amino’s, vitamins ect..ect That a lean piece of beef provides :confused:? Please notice the questions marks !!
I can't say that any clearer .
I'm asking you that sincerely not to be antagonistic.
"I am fine with that but then you come back and insinuate I have consumed my fair share of roids. "
You were the one complaining about the adulated beef .
Why complain when you take crap that is most likely far more
Problematic than beef.
We all do !
"So now it is you who cloud and divert the issue at hand not to mention attack at a personal level,."
You call that an attack ! Then you are a sissy !
You drew the first blood many post back with ...
"What?OK, now you are going off on some extreme tangent which isn't even relavent"
Which I thought was very relavant .
unjustified and uneducated personal attacks.
"I do take Androgel as a HRT"
If you don't want to be personal don't hang your
laundry out for everyone to see on the web.
By the way
I take DHEA and I have some left over bottles of Andro's
and some ecdysteroids that I take .
In closing I was at Tampa Stadum when they played "Stair Way to Heaven" for the first time .
If you look at their old inside album cover.I'm the one holding the flare .
My life has taught me that Hard Ball is the only way to play!
Since from the start I have enjoyed and have been greatly informed with your knowledge and I hope to continue to do so in the future.
Thanks for all your good info ,
And we both know that a Balance is the key to all good things in life.Food being one of them.
Still Friends
Sonny
"
If we were face to face I'm sure we would be smiling :)
I am
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (MO75 @ Sep. 30 2004,4:38)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (MrNasty @ Sep. 29 2004,11:23)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Sonny @ Sep. 29 2004,10:32)]OH ! Please! don’t use that old Gambit on me .
You can’t answer a question with a question.
Never mind!
You have answered it!
My last reply..
How infantile! I quit .
PS: Being specific is what got Socrates head chopped off !
Click to expand...
Socrates was the man. He proved everyone wrong in the end. They just refused to swollow their pride and except the truth for what it was. The shunded him out of fear. The only reason Socrates was beheaded was because he made people think outside the box. He made them see things for what they were, instead of what everyone thought they knew they where.
Click to expand...
But did he eat beef?
Click to expand...
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laugh.gif
laugh.gif


I'm sure he did, indeed, eat beef. But, was he a BBer?? That is the question.

And to Sonny, to say I would be deficient in ZINC or any othr mineral for that matter, with a 3000+ calorie daily intake is crazy. I eat a variety of foods, once which I'm sure have plenty of ZINC (give me a moment and I'll find out for you). I dont believe a deficiency is the problem.
 
Yeah, I win :D BabyA, that's what I like about you, there is no confusing what you are trying to say :D

Sonny, yes were still friends, and now that I know what it is you are looking for I will see what I can dig up, just for curiousity sake, not that it'll change anyones eating habits, but just for fun.

Still not sure about that sissy remark though
sneaky2.gif
 
PS: Hhere are my next HST cycle routines:

Routine A:
Legs: Reverse Squats
Legs: Leg curls
Chest: DB Press
Back: Chin/Pull Down
Back: Rows (seated cable)
Shoulder: Front Lat Raises
Shoulder: Rear Delts (reverse machine flies)
Traps: Shrugs
Biceps: Incline DB Curls
Biceps: Hammer Curls
Triceps: Skulls
Triceps: Tri (over head) Extention
Calves: Seated Calve (donkey) raises

Routine B:
Legs: Leg Press
Legs: Leg Extentions
Chest: DB Press
Back: Pull Downs Wide
Back: Rows (hammer strength)
Shoulder: Side Lateral
Shoulder: Rear Delts (reverse machine flies)
Traps: Shrugs
Biceps: Incline DB Curls
Biceps: Hammer Curls
Triceps: Skulls
Triceps: Tri (over head) Extention
Calves: Standing Calve raises

Originally in plan B, I was going to use deads instead of Press, however, I tried deads for the first time before my SD and they were extremely awkward - I am afriad of injury. So what I will do is practice them (1set) every leg press day. As for the reverse squats, what I mean is my legs will be out in front of me for more emphasis on the quads. I'm not concerned with hams, they are already well developed and train (grow) easily.

With that being said, what does everyone think about this routine. I set it up a bit different than my previous routines. I want to put more emphasis on the arms (they are lagging) and shoulders, which seems to be one of my best features but is missing out on action.

I'll be training, full body 3x a week. Gimie some unput. Thanks.
 
Baby A …..
Ha Ha !
laugh.gif

I know.
I got a lot of work to do!
I have a set of calipers and it indicates 18.0 % and according to the chart that’s “IDEAL” for a guy 51 yo
It isn’t where I want to be.
16% maybe.
dozingoff.gif
 
Who can tell me what a good cholesterol is

who can show me that cholesterol is the limiting factor in the production of testosterone.

you guys just seem to be rehashing stupid old bodybulding garbage
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tom Treutlein @ Sep. 30 2004,7:30)]No way no how is more than 20x bodyweight in calories needed to grow muscle, unless maybe you're a complete ectomorph, through and through.
I eat 17-19x bodyweight and grow. I'm a mesomorph.
20x just to maintain? Hahahaha...right...
I hate a lot of studies and research.
Click to expand...
you obviously havent had much expereience

I have had subjects eating 29-32kcals/lb to gain weight, maintenance at 20 is highly likely
 
I've had more than enough experience, don't assume that I haven't.

Highly likely? No. Unlikely. Possible, maybe. But not 'highly likely'?
 
it all depends on their activity levels
Maybe lot highly likely in sedentary bb types, but for people involved in more serious training schemes, or working harder jobs it is definately more likely. Especially for lighter individuals (not nessecarily 'ectomorphs' either (not that Somatotyping is indicative of anything)

I couldnt eat 20xweight and maintain, but I also could never eat 30x weight at all, 8000kcals is not fun
 
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