Anabolic Diet
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Morgoth the Dark Enemy
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It`s not magic, and Mauro is a jackass pretty much, and he messes up a lot of things(OTOH, when I first read his original AD booklet, I thought he was the man...shows me right), but other than that, if you actually stick to what he says in the book, disregarding the fluff, it`s OK. It`s a pretty standard fare CKD. His caloric reccomendations for bulking are too high. The fact that he keeps you limited to a low BF for bulking is OK because it prevents piginess. The cutting part is ok in terms of calories and what he has you do(read that carefully, and don`t listen to the keto nutters who`ll tell you to bump up the fat or whatever stupid thing, Mauro actually got it right in his book:when you cut, keep protein high, and cut the fat...this`ll eventually get you to PSMF levels(maybe), but it`s the way to tackle the issue).
Other than that, there`s not much else to say. If you think it could work for you, do it. Again, I feel the need to underline the fact that it`s not magic, and you can pretty much skip all the claims of metabolically supercharged diet that does this and that and whatever, because it`s not, and there is no such diet out there....well, there might be, once you start popping them DBols, but then why diet?
Other than that, there`s not much else to say. If you think it could work for you, do it. Again, I feel the need to underline the fact that it`s not magic, and you can pretty much skip all the claims of metabolically supercharged diet that does this and that and whatever, because it`s not, and there is no such diet out there....well, there might be, once you start popping them DBols, but then why diet?
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
Actually, there are a number of studies done on ketogenic diets. It`s a run of the mill Cyclical Ketogenic Diet, low-carb week+weekend refeed. But since Mauro is a weasel and knows how to cash in o stuff(added to the fact that when he wrote the original booklet this stuff was quite novel to the masse, you only had Zumpano's Rebound/Ultimate Diets, Duchaine hadn`t yet pushed out his BodyOpus(there was some drama between Mauro and Duchaine due to this)), he turned it into the best thing ever, equal to roids bla bla.
The concept of planned periodic refeeding was novel back then, but it is a sound one when dieting, and, as I said, if you stay away from keto-nutter recommendations(please don`t read the huge AD thread on T-Nation, your respect for the human race will drop to a near 0 level), and actually do what Mauro has you do(save for bulking where he has way to high caloric envelopes and the carb-up where he screws up saying you should get a moderate ammount of fat-it should be a minimal ammount of fat, about 15% in order to prevent DNL, and that`s it), don`t fall for the pizza+icecream+doughnuts carb-ups(as those result generally in undoing the fatloss you achieved during the week/wheel spinning), you`ll be quite allright on it.
The only scenario where it could actually improve the hormonal profile like Mauro suggested is for some dude that`s coming off a stupid diet, with inadequate protein, inadequate fat(meaning almost no fat) etc-in that scenario, obviously you`ll get a better hormonal profile by actually getting enough protein, getting fat in your diet etc.
To the OP, (I`ve used it) enough and under varied enough circumstances to know that what I`m saying is accurate.
The concept of planned periodic refeeding was novel back then, but it is a sound one when dieting, and, as I said, if you stay away from keto-nutter recommendations(please don`t read the huge AD thread on T-Nation, your respect for the human race will drop to a near 0 level), and actually do what Mauro has you do(save for bulking where he has way to high caloric envelopes and the carb-up where he screws up saying you should get a moderate ammount of fat-it should be a minimal ammount of fat, about 15% in order to prevent DNL, and that`s it), don`t fall for the pizza+icecream+doughnuts carb-ups(as those result generally in undoing the fatloss you achieved during the week/wheel spinning), you`ll be quite allright on it.
The only scenario where it could actually improve the hormonal profile like Mauro suggested is for some dude that`s coming off a stupid diet, with inadequate protein, inadequate fat(meaning almost no fat) etc-in that scenario, obviously you`ll get a better hormonal profile by actually getting enough protein, getting fat in your diet etc.
To the OP, (I`ve used it) enough and under varied enough circumstances to know that what I`m saying is accurate.
Thanks for the posts, all good to read.
I'm about a month in and I feel awesome. I have energy all the time, I'm starting to show some real definition around the abs and my strength is slowly increasing on everything. I'm at slightly over maintenance cals at the moment but I'm going to start increasing that when I get the BF% down to where I want it. Training is Max stim atm.
J
I'm about a month in and I feel awesome. I have energy all the time, I'm starting to show some real definition around the abs and my strength is slowly increasing on everything. I'm at slightly over maintenance cals at the moment but I'm going to start increasing that when I get the BF% down to where I want it. Training is Max stim atm.
J
It will be worth it to me just for the energy. You're not the first one to say that. I'm so tired of being tired. Of course, it's all stress and age for me, since a day of carpentry shouldn't do anything but make me feel good; been doing it 20 years.
Things gonna change 'round heah!
Things gonna change 'round heah!
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
<div>
(quadancer @ Jun. 17 2007,15:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It will be worth it to me just for the energy. You're not the first one to say that. I'm so tired of being tired. Of course, it's all stress and age for me, since a day of carpentry shouldn't do anything but make me feel good; been doing it 20 years.
Things gonna change 'round heah!</div>
Quad, that`s not an accurate depiction(the part with I eat more, feel like I`m flying, and getting ABZ), don`t put much stock to it. If you`re really interested in the AD, try reading the stuff here(yes, they`re BodyOpus logs, but AD=BodyOpus on most accounts, save for the fact that Duchaine actually sorted his stuff out and set-up a proper integrated diet+training plan, with a proper method of carb-loading described in the book etc.):Stuff, to get a clear idea of what`s what.
If it`s still appealing to you, I`d be glad to provide you with Mauro's stuff to make up your own mind about it...although I`m quite certain you`ll see there`s nothing magical about these things.
(quadancer @ Jun. 17 2007,15:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It will be worth it to me just for the energy. You're not the first one to say that. I'm so tired of being tired. Of course, it's all stress and age for me, since a day of carpentry shouldn't do anything but make me feel good; been doing it 20 years.
Things gonna change 'round heah!</div>
Quad, that`s not an accurate depiction(the part with I eat more, feel like I`m flying, and getting ABZ), don`t put much stock to it. If you`re really interested in the AD, try reading the stuff here(yes, they`re BodyOpus logs, but AD=BodyOpus on most accounts, save for the fact that Duchaine actually sorted his stuff out and set-up a proper integrated diet+training plan, with a proper method of carb-loading described in the book etc.):Stuff, to get a clear idea of what`s what.
If it`s still appealing to you, I`d be glad to provide you with Mauro's stuff to make up your own mind about it...although I`m quite certain you`ll see there`s nothing magical about these things.
Quad, I would urge you to try it. If you have no energy at the moment and feel tired then you have nothing to lose. I looked at the diet years ago but dismissed it thinking that noone could eat that much fat but its really easy... bacon & eggs anyone?
Anyway, like I posted before what I am expriencing is what I have read to be typical from what the book says so I'm very happy.
I did read some of the T-nation thread about this diet but not the whole 220+ pages (yes 220+). There is some very good info on there including the fact that this is NOT a keto diet. That apparently is a transitional thing. It also goes into the differences with Bodyopus and UD2.
J
Anyway, like I posted before what I am expriencing is what I have read to be typical from what the book says so I'm very happy.
I did read some of the T-nation thread about this diet but not the whole 220+ pages (yes 220+). There is some very good info on there including the fact that this is NOT a keto diet. That apparently is a transitional thing. It also goes into the differences with Bodyopus and UD2.
J
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
<div>
(Jazzer @ Jun. 17 2007,18:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quad, I would urge you to try it. If you have no energy at the moment and feel tired then you have nothing to lose. I looked at the diet years ago but dismissed it thinking that noone could eat that much fat but its really easy... bacon & eggs anyone?
Anyway, like I posted before what I am expriencing is what I have read to be typical from what the book says so I'm very happy.
I did read some of the T-nation thread about this diet but not the whole 220+ pages (yes 220+). There is some very good info on there including the fact that this is NOT a keto diet. That apparently is a transitional thing. It also goes into the differences with Bodyopus and UD2.
J
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For God`s sake man, do you actually know what you are talking about?It`s not a keto diet?O RLY?Then what is it, pray tell?That thread on T-nation is beyond stupid, the AD Guru 20% BF guy Disc Hoss or something like that included. It`s a transitional thing to WTF?Do some of you people actually take the time to study the things you say, or do you simply parrot the first thing you`ve read in a book?(yes, now I`m waiting for the:you are sarcastic, thou must not be sarcastic! post with eager anticipation).
What you`re saying is wrong-there, I`ve said it as politely as possible. You are experiencing what you`ve read in the book to be typical...does this not ring any bells for you?Heard about the placebo effect?Do you actually understand how it(the AD) works?Differences compared with BodyOpus and UD2?Let`s see:in BodyOpus Duchaine actually explains all that must be explained and gives a great plan(for the time), without quoting rat and dog research(Mauro has a hard-on for these), and has a proper carb-up regimen instead of umm, eat carbs...and stuff...and the pizza, get the pizza!The comparison with the UD2 has no place, as it`s lightyears ahead of either BO or AD when it comes to maintaining LBM whilst cutting and contest-prepping.
(Jazzer @ Jun. 17 2007,18:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quad, I would urge you to try it. If you have no energy at the moment and feel tired then you have nothing to lose. I looked at the diet years ago but dismissed it thinking that noone could eat that much fat but its really easy... bacon & eggs anyone?
Anyway, like I posted before what I am expriencing is what I have read to be typical from what the book says so I'm very happy.
I did read some of the T-nation thread about this diet but not the whole 220+ pages (yes 220+). There is some very good info on there including the fact that this is NOT a keto diet. That apparently is a transitional thing. It also goes into the differences with Bodyopus and UD2.
J
For God`s sake man, do you actually know what you are talking about?It`s not a keto diet?O RLY?Then what is it, pray tell?That thread on T-nation is beyond stupid, the AD Guru 20% BF guy Disc Hoss or something like that included. It`s a transitional thing to WTF?Do some of you people actually take the time to study the things you say, or do you simply parrot the first thing you`ve read in a book?(yes, now I`m waiting for the:you are sarcastic, thou must not be sarcastic! post with eager anticipation).
What you`re saying is wrong-there, I`ve said it as politely as possible. You are experiencing what you`ve read in the book to be typical...does this not ring any bells for you?Heard about the placebo effect?Do you actually understand how it(the AD) works?Differences compared with BodyOpus and UD2?Let`s see:in BodyOpus Duchaine actually explains all that must be explained and gives a great plan(for the time), without quoting rat and dog research(Mauro has a hard-on for these), and has a proper carb-up regimen instead of umm, eat carbs...and stuff...and the pizza, get the pizza!The comparison with the UD2 has no place, as it`s lightyears ahead of either BO or AD when it comes to maintaining LBM whilst cutting and contest-prepping.
Woh! Ok everyone, back away from the raw nerve! Nothing to see here.
Lol.
I'm not going to argue with you because to be honest I just can't be arsed and you will just come back with an equally incoherent rant.
Also, I never enter into anything without at least some extensive reading and getting as many opinions as possible. Sorry if I don't have time to do the extensive studying that you obviously have.
I will continue with the diet as long I see and feel positive effects. 7 pounds of placebo fat so far.
Lastly, I don't think you are sarcastic. Sarcasm can be quite funny at times and takes wit to pull off. You just have anger management issues.
Peace,
J
Lol.
I'm not going to argue with you because to be honest I just can't be arsed and you will just come back with an equally incoherent rant.
Also, I never enter into anything without at least some extensive reading and getting as many opinions as possible. Sorry if I don't have time to do the extensive studying that you obviously have.
I will continue with the diet as long I see and feel positive effects. 7 pounds of placebo fat so far.
Lastly, I don't think you are sarcastic. Sarcasm can be quite funny at times and takes wit to pull off. You just have anger management issues.
Peace,
J
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(Jazzer @ Jun. 18 2007,05:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I did read some of the T-nation thread about this diet but not the whole 220+ pages (yes 220+). There is some very good info on there including the fact that this is NOT a keto diet. That apparently is a transitional thing. It also goes into the differences with Bodyopus and UD2.
J
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Just because the idiots at t-nation do not think its a keto diet, does not meant that it is not a keto diet.
the anabolic diet is a cyclical ketogenic diet.
(Jazzer @ Jun. 18 2007,05:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I did read some of the T-nation thread about this diet but not the whole 220+ pages (yes 220+). There is some very good info on there including the fact that this is NOT a keto diet. That apparently is a transitional thing. It also goes into the differences with Bodyopus and UD2.
J
Just because the idiots at t-nation do not think its a keto diet, does not meant that it is not a keto diet.
the anabolic diet is a cyclical ketogenic diet.
<div>
(Morgoth the Dark Enemy @ Jun. 18 2007,09:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">the AD Guru 20% BF guy Disc Hoss or something like that included.</div>
Hes a funny fellow.
I am sure on one thread he went on about how its impossible to put on fat with the anabolic diet. ummm.... ok.
(Morgoth the Dark Enemy @ Jun. 18 2007,09:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">the AD Guru 20% BF guy Disc Hoss or something like that included.</div>
Hes a funny fellow.
I am sure on one thread he went on about how its impossible to put on fat with the anabolic diet. ummm.... ok.
Aaron, thanks for the input.
A few questions if I may.
Would you agree or not with the following claims;
1. "It also shifts the body’s metabolism from that of a sugar burning, fat producing machine to that of a fat
burning machine."
2. "This diet maximizes the serum levels of testosterone, growth hormone and insulin to promote growth."
3."The Anabolic Diet results in lower levels of cortisol,
a hormone secreted by the adrenal glands that breaks down muscle (catabolism) and uses it for
energy."
Cheers,
J
A few questions if I may.
Would you agree or not with the following claims;
1. "It also shifts the body’s metabolism from that of a sugar burning, fat producing machine to that of a fat
burning machine."
2. "This diet maximizes the serum levels of testosterone, growth hormone and insulin to promote growth."
3."The Anabolic Diet results in lower levels of cortisol,
a hormone secreted by the adrenal glands that breaks down muscle (catabolism) and uses it for
energy."
Cheers,
J
Low carb, keto style diets lead to more fat oxidation BUT they also provide more fat.
Maximises test - based upon the belief that fat is related to testosterone, which is only an observation, no causality has been identified.
Growth hormone = helps to raise fat oxdation to provide energy
Insulin = only high insulin in the weekends of 'crap' loading. Now if the insulin was high around training (TKD) it may be better.
Cortisol reponse to keto is mixed, as it can be raised becuase cortisol is not specific to muscle. its also influences fat cell metabolism, to help provide fatty acids for oxidation. Of course Maurio points to only bad roles of cortisol, rather than its involvement in vast numbers of essential reactions in the body.
Maximises test - based upon the belief that fat is related to testosterone, which is only an observation, no causality has been identified.
Growth hormone = helps to raise fat oxdation to provide energy
Insulin = only high insulin in the weekends of 'crap' loading. Now if the insulin was high around training (TKD) it may be better.
Cortisol reponse to keto is mixed, as it can be raised becuase cortisol is not specific to muscle. its also influences fat cell metabolism, to help provide fatty acids for oxidation. Of course Maurio points to only bad roles of cortisol, rather than its involvement in vast numbers of essential reactions in the body.
<div>
(Aaron_F @ Jun. 18 2007,03:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Insulin = only high insulin in the weekends of 'crap' loading. Now if the insulin was high around training (TKD) it may be better.</div>
aaron, mauro acctually says carbs around excercise is bad, and shows studies to show how he came to these conclusions.
he says basically carbs reduce insulin sensitivity in muscle after the muscle carbs up, and hence reduces the muscles ability to absorb aminos. if you dont carb up around workouts, insulin sensitivity in muscles increase and when you take in protein only it increases insulin sensitivity above the original high level and the muscles ability to absorb aminos skyrockets.
i find the diet is the only diet i have ever tried where i have gotten stronger while cutting. also i find i have less joint pain on it.
oh and i enjoy a pizza with my carb up !!!!
(Aaron_F @ Jun. 18 2007,03:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Insulin = only high insulin in the weekends of 'crap' loading. Now if the insulin was high around training (TKD) it may be better.</div>
aaron, mauro acctually says carbs around excercise is bad, and shows studies to show how he came to these conclusions.
he says basically carbs reduce insulin sensitivity in muscle after the muscle carbs up, and hence reduces the muscles ability to absorb aminos. if you dont carb up around workouts, insulin sensitivity in muscles increase and when you take in protein only it increases insulin sensitivity above the original high level and the muscles ability to absorb aminos skyrockets.
i find the diet is the only diet i have ever tried where i have gotten stronger while cutting. also i find i have less joint pain on it.
oh and i enjoy a pizza with my carb up !!!!
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
<div>
(Aaron_F @ Jul. 08 2007,12:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just because Maurio claims it doesnt make it correct, or suitable.
Amino acids reduce insulin sensitivity as well, so maybe maurio should suggest that we stop eating that ?</div>
But he was winning PL competitions with 7% BF whilst carbing-up on Pizza and doughnuts and eating pepperoni and sausage during the week. He can`t be wrong, can he?
(Aaron_F @ Jul. 08 2007,12:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just because Maurio claims it doesnt make it correct, or suitable.
Amino acids reduce insulin sensitivity as well, so maybe maurio should suggest that we stop eating that ?</div>
But he was winning PL competitions with 7% BF whilst carbing-up on Pizza and doughnuts and eating pepperoni and sausage during the week. He can`t be wrong, can he?
i think he meant it from a fat loss standpoint, that it was better not to do a tkd, but then again who knows.
he did provide studies that show why he feels that way.
overall i think the ad is a good plan.
the normal fat/lower protein on weekends along with carbups certainly doesn't sound like a good idea, however he has used it succesfully with many people, and himself as you say, and i like the simplicity of eating pizza at weekends.
lyle's scientific formula for carbup in ud2.0 is far far too complicated and exessive imho
although both are pretty much the same bar the exact figures lyle states anf the low fat during carb up
he did provide studies that show why he feels that way.
overall i think the ad is a good plan.
the normal fat/lower protein on weekends along with carbups certainly doesn't sound like a good idea, however he has used it succesfully with many people, and himself as you say, and i like the simplicity of eating pizza at weekends.
lyle's scientific formula for carbup in ud2.0 is far far too complicated and exessive imho
although both are pretty much the same bar the exact figures lyle states anf the low fat during carb up