Anabolic Diet
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Morgoth the Dark Enemy
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<div>
(Aaron_F @ Jul. 08 2007,16:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">His diet works for the same reasons UD2 works
and it aint maximising test
it aint the eating of the junk during the weekends
it aint most of the garbage that spews forth from Maurios pen
it aint the supplement shilling that his later books turned into</div>
It`s Smilax stacked with Ferulic acid?
(Aaron_F @ Jul. 08 2007,16:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">His diet works for the same reasons UD2 works
and it aint maximising test
it aint the eating of the junk during the weekends
it aint most of the garbage that spews forth from Maurios pen
it aint the supplement shilling that his later books turned into</div>
It`s Smilax stacked with Ferulic acid?
Bulldog
Active Member
I don't know why you keep saying that Maruo says to eat junk on the weekends. I don't recall him ever saying that.
And as for eating "clean" all the time, especially carb up days....no thanks. If you can eat a pizza on the weekends and still meet your goals then go for it.
And as for eating "clean" all the time, especially carb up days....no thanks. If you can eat a pizza on the weekends and still meet your goals then go for it.
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
<div>
(Bulldog @ Jul. 08 2007,18:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I don't know why you keep saying that Maruo says to eat junk on the weekends. I don't recall him ever saying that.
And as for eating "clean" all the time, especially carb up days....no thanks. If you can eat a pizza on the weekends and still meet your goals then go for it.</div>
Read the book(s) again. For Mauro, carb-up=having all the stuff you`ve been craving(pizza, ice-cream-examples he gives, not mine). Which is all well and nice, till you realize that pizza& ice-cream aren't necessarily all that high in carbs, but they`re quite high in fat. Which in the context of a carb-up is something you don`t want.
The idea is not to eat clean all the time(BTW, clean eating is overrated, and making it a religion is beyond retarded, I don`t think anyone was talking about that), it`s about eating a shitpile of carbs on the carb-up whilst having no more than 20% of your daily calories from fat(in order to be sure DNL does not occur, retardedly low fat intakes activate that pathway). If one can do that and have pizzas and icecream and fries and whatever, kudos to him, but it`s fairly hard. The trouble is that beyond the obligatory internet success stories promoted by the forum keto/AD/NHE-gurus(who are almost always some 20% BF dudes, and very rarely quite genetically gifted individuals, who actually diet properly on top of it all) who tell the tale of paving the way to rippetitude with sausages and salami, whilst carbing-up on pizza and doughnuts and whatever, experience has shown that most people when left to their own devices on the carb-up, in the context of not very clear restrictions(like Lyle or Duchaine have for their carb-ups) manage to screw up and undo almost all fat-loss achieved during the low-carb week, some even manage to gain some fat, ending-up in permanent limbo.
But the mind is powerful enough to add substance where there is none, and thus everyone is losing fat and adding muscle, and you get huuuuge forum threads and stories and whatever. Because(and this is from personal experience) when looking in the mirror, if you truly want to believe, you`ll see progress where there is none.
(Bulldog @ Jul. 08 2007,18:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I don't know why you keep saying that Maruo says to eat junk on the weekends. I don't recall him ever saying that.
And as for eating "clean" all the time, especially carb up days....no thanks. If you can eat a pizza on the weekends and still meet your goals then go for it.</div>
Read the book(s) again. For Mauro, carb-up=having all the stuff you`ve been craving(pizza, ice-cream-examples he gives, not mine). Which is all well and nice, till you realize that pizza& ice-cream aren't necessarily all that high in carbs, but they`re quite high in fat. Which in the context of a carb-up is something you don`t want.
The idea is not to eat clean all the time(BTW, clean eating is overrated, and making it a religion is beyond retarded, I don`t think anyone was talking about that), it`s about eating a shitpile of carbs on the carb-up whilst having no more than 20% of your daily calories from fat(in order to be sure DNL does not occur, retardedly low fat intakes activate that pathway). If one can do that and have pizzas and icecream and fries and whatever, kudos to him, but it`s fairly hard. The trouble is that beyond the obligatory internet success stories promoted by the forum keto/AD/NHE-gurus(who are almost always some 20% BF dudes, and very rarely quite genetically gifted individuals, who actually diet properly on top of it all) who tell the tale of paving the way to rippetitude with sausages and salami, whilst carbing-up on pizza and doughnuts and whatever, experience has shown that most people when left to their own devices on the carb-up, in the context of not very clear restrictions(like Lyle or Duchaine have for their carb-ups) manage to screw up and undo almost all fat-loss achieved during the low-carb week, some even manage to gain some fat, ending-up in permanent limbo.
But the mind is powerful enough to add substance where there is none, and thus everyone is losing fat and adding muscle, and you get huuuuge forum threads and stories and whatever. Because(and this is from personal experience) when looking in the mirror, if you truly want to believe, you`ll see progress where there is none.
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
Do Not Lick
Just kidding, De Novo Lipogenesis=the pathway through which carbs are converted to fat. It`s not that active in humans, very active in rats(that`s why every keto nut on the planet likes to quote studies based on murine models to prove that carbs make you fat no matter what-it`s absolutely not true in humans). DNL becomes active with very low fat intakes(under 15-20% of total daily calories), and in conditions of huge-carb intake(think UD2 amounts of carbs, eaten constantly throughout many days-i think that after the third or fourth day DNL becomes pronounced, don`t really remember, I seem to recall Nandi had some interesting studies WRT this).
MDE wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But the mind is powerful enough to add substance where there is none, and thus everyone is losing fat and adding muscle, and you get huuuuge forum threads and stories and whatever. Because(and this is from personal experience) when looking in the mirror, if you truly want to believe, you`ll see progress where there is none.</div>
Excellent post, and this exactly describes the blessing and curse that bodybuilding forums are in this day & age.
How anyone can seriously undertake an aesthetic program such as muscle gain / fat loss without knowing your lbm/bf numbers is beyond me. If you don't know how many pounds of lbm you have and how many pounds of bf you have, how on earth do you measure progress from week to week, month to month, year to year?
Strength goals are easy to measure. And if you're a competative bodybuilder, well, you may not care what your bf/lbm is as long as you're leaner and bigger than the guy on stage next to you.
Putting those two scenarios aside, I would say that 90% of us in here are training for aesthetic purposes. I see lots of thought & planning & sweat & tears go into their programs and diet. But what I fail to see...repeatedly...is some quantifiable measurement of progress, other than "I gained a two pounds", or "I lost 3 pounds" or "I look jacked today".
Getting a bf/lbm analysis is a relatively simple thing to do. Is the test perfect? Heck, no. But it's better than nothing, and at least you can find out if what you're doing is putting you on the right track.
With regards to the anabolic diet, I have indeed tried it. For me, eating only p&f and p&c meals turned my stomach into a gas factory, and after 6 weeks I gained 1 pound of muscle and 3 pounds of fat. I know this because I measured b/4 and after
That's all I needed to know to make an informed decision.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But the mind is powerful enough to add substance where there is none, and thus everyone is losing fat and adding muscle, and you get huuuuge forum threads and stories and whatever. Because(and this is from personal experience) when looking in the mirror, if you truly want to believe, you`ll see progress where there is none.</div>
Excellent post, and this exactly describes the blessing and curse that bodybuilding forums are in this day & age.
How anyone can seriously undertake an aesthetic program such as muscle gain / fat loss without knowing your lbm/bf numbers is beyond me. If you don't know how many pounds of lbm you have and how many pounds of bf you have, how on earth do you measure progress from week to week, month to month, year to year?
Strength goals are easy to measure. And if you're a competative bodybuilder, well, you may not care what your bf/lbm is as long as you're leaner and bigger than the guy on stage next to you.
Putting those two scenarios aside, I would say that 90% of us in here are training for aesthetic purposes. I see lots of thought & planning & sweat & tears go into their programs and diet. But what I fail to see...repeatedly...is some quantifiable measurement of progress, other than "I gained a two pounds", or "I lost 3 pounds" or "I look jacked today".
Getting a bf/lbm analysis is a relatively simple thing to do. Is the test perfect? Heck, no. But it's better than nothing, and at least you can find out if what you're doing is putting you on the right track.
With regards to the anabolic diet, I have indeed tried it. For me, eating only p&f and p&c meals turned my stomach into a gas factory, and after 6 weeks I gained 1 pound of muscle and 3 pounds of fat. I know this because I measured b/4 and after
That's all I needed to know to make an informed decision.
<div>
(Slapshotz @ Jul. 09 2007,13:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How anyone can seriously undertake an aesthetic program such as muscle gain / fat loss without knowing your lbm/bf numbers is beyond me.</div>
becuase the only decent measure you can do is bodyweight, everything else is controlled guessing
(Slapshotz @ Jul. 09 2007,13:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How anyone can seriously undertake an aesthetic program such as muscle gain / fat loss without knowing your lbm/bf numbers is beyond me.</div>
becuase the only decent measure you can do is bodyweight, everything else is controlled guessing
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
<div>
(colby2152 @ Jul. 09 2007,04:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">controlled guessing
</div>
Guesstimating?!
It isn't too hard to get a decent estimate on your body fat percentage though.</div>
But for that estimate to be even remotely accurate is hard...unless you cough up the dough for DEXA or something similar. Caliper measurements(I`m guessing that`s what you're talking about) are good in the way that they give you some stick to measure against(so you had some skin-folds, if they`re going down through the weeks of dieting, you`ll be leaner), but as a BF estimate not so much:Siri's equation is fairly spoofed, and all of the math involved in caliper BF determination was extrapolated from some(I think 5) caucasian cadavers, that were old and died of disease. Not really representative for much really.
(colby2152 @ Jul. 09 2007,04:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">controlled guessing
Guesstimating?!
It isn't too hard to get a decent estimate on your body fat percentage though.</div>
But for that estimate to be even remotely accurate is hard...unless you cough up the dough for DEXA or something similar. Caliper measurements(I`m guessing that`s what you're talking about) are good in the way that they give you some stick to measure against(so you had some skin-folds, if they`re going down through the weeks of dieting, you`ll be leaner), but as a BF estimate not so much:Siri's equation is fairly spoofed, and all of the math involved in caliper BF determination was extrapolated from some(I think 5) caucasian cadavers, that were old and died of disease. Not really representative for much really.
Dexa is still reasonably variable, in an individual subject.
Repeat measures can vary by 1-2% either way
one of the earlier pieces of work had a test - retest, on the same day, same machine, same operator, same subject that resulted in a change of to 0.95kg of lean tissue mass
thats just over 2lbs
Repeat measures can vary by 1-2% either way
one of the earlier pieces of work had a test - retest, on the same day, same machine, same operator, same subject that resulted in a change of to 0.95kg of lean tissue mass
thats just over 2lbs
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
Is there anything better than DEXA(except an autopsy)?
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> De Novo Lipogenesis=the pathway through which carbs are converted to fat. It`s not that active in humans, very active in rats(that`s why every keto nut on the planet likes to quote studies based on murine models to prove that carbs make you fat no matter what-it`s absolutely not true in humans). DNL becomes active with very low fat intakes(under 15-20% of total daily calories), and in conditions of huge-carb intake(think UD2 amounts of carbs, eaten constantly throughout many days-i think that after the third or fourth day DNL becomes pronounced, don`t really remember, I seem to recall Nandi had some interesting studies WRT this).</div>
Great stuff Morgoth!
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Dexa is still reasonably variable, in an individual subject.
Repeat measures can vary by 1-2% either way</div>
My thoughts on the body fat percentage tests are more statistical based than anything. Some time in the future, I do want to try DEXA or hydrostatic weighing and callibrate my caliper measurements to be very close to those readings.
Great stuff Morgoth!
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Dexa is still reasonably variable, in an individual subject.
Repeat measures can vary by 1-2% either way</div>
My thoughts on the body fat percentage tests are more statistical based than anything. Some time in the future, I do want to try DEXA or hydrostatic weighing and callibrate my caliper measurements to be very close to those readings.
Its
55-60% fat,
30-35% protein &
5-8% carbs through the week &
30-40% fat,
10-15% protein &
45-60% carbs through the weekend on a 36-48hr carb refeed.
I still want to give it a fair shot without going mad on the weekends although I havent done it for the past week .I have been away on holiday with the family and I did stick to it for a couple of days it turned out to be impossible
I'm back on it now though and I'll see how I go.
I wasn't in a hurry before but I am entering into a sort of gym competition where the winner is the one who can make the biggest difference to their physique in 12 weeks.
From the measurements I've taken with various things I reckon my BF % is somewhere between 18% and 23%.
I figured on max stim training with the anabolic diet and loads of cardio to get my BF down and then ramp up the cals as much as I can without putting fat back on until the competition close but I'm open to suggestions (not interested in drugs atm and dont like the sound of UD2 because I like to train how I want).
Cheers,
J
55-60% fat,
30-35% protein &
5-8% carbs through the week &
30-40% fat,
10-15% protein &
45-60% carbs through the weekend on a 36-48hr carb refeed.
I still want to give it a fair shot without going mad on the weekends although I havent done it for the past week .I have been away on holiday with the family and I did stick to it for a couple of days it turned out to be impossible
I'm back on it now though and I'll see how I go.
I wasn't in a hurry before but I am entering into a sort of gym competition where the winner is the one who can make the biggest difference to their physique in 12 weeks.
From the measurements I've taken with various things I reckon my BF % is somewhere between 18% and 23%.
I figured on max stim training with the anabolic diet and loads of cardio to get my BF down and then ramp up the cals as much as I can without putting fat back on until the competition close but I'm open to suggestions (not interested in drugs atm and dont like the sound of UD2 because I like to train how I want).
Cheers,
J
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
<div>
(Jazzer @ Jul. 11 2007,01:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Its
55-60% fat,
30-35% protein &
5-8% carbs through the week &
30-40% fat,
10-15% protein &
45-60% carbs through the weekend on a 36-48hr carb refeed.
I still want to give it a fair shot without going mad on the weekends although I havent done it for the past week .I have been away on holiday with the family and I did stick to it for a couple of days it turned out to be impossible
I'm back on it now though and I'll see how I go.
I wasn't in a hurry before but I am entering into a sort of gym competition where the winner is the one who can make the biggest difference to their physique in 12 weeks.
From the measurements I've taken with various things I reckon my BF % is somewhere between 18% and 23%.
I figured on max stim training with the anabolic diet and loads of cardio to get my BF down and then ramp up the cals as much as I can without putting fat back on until the competition close but I'm open to suggestions (not interested in drugs atm and dont like the sound of UD2 because I like to train how I want).
Cheers,
J
</div>
What BF did you say you were at?
(Jazzer @ Jul. 11 2007,01:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Its
55-60% fat,
30-35% protein &
5-8% carbs through the week &
30-40% fat,
10-15% protein &
45-60% carbs through the weekend on a 36-48hr carb refeed.
I still want to give it a fair shot without going mad on the weekends although I havent done it for the past week .I have been away on holiday with the family and I did stick to it for a couple of days it turned out to be impossible
I'm back on it now though and I'll see how I go.
I wasn't in a hurry before but I am entering into a sort of gym competition where the winner is the one who can make the biggest difference to their physique in 12 weeks.
From the measurements I've taken with various things I reckon my BF % is somewhere between 18% and 23%.
I figured on max stim training with the anabolic diet and loads of cardio to get my BF down and then ramp up the cals as much as I can without putting fat back on until the competition close but I'm open to suggestions (not interested in drugs atm and dont like the sound of UD2 because I like to train how I want).
Cheers,
J
What BF did you say you were at?
I said somewhere between 18% & 23%. I know that is quite a wide margin and that is due to conflicting info from methods used. Looking at this page http://www.naturalphysiques.com/cms/index.php?itemid=144 I would say I was around 15%.
I hope Tanita goes bust, I knew it was wrong but I never knew HOW wrong.
J
I hope Tanita goes bust, I knew it was wrong but I never knew HOW wrong.
J