Bryan - question from your post

[Jester]

Hi Bryan, in a thread about "Roadblocks" in the Basic Training Forum, you mentioned that carbs in particular are conducive to creating an anabolic environment, in natural lifters.

Are you referring to Post-WO carbs and the carbs an hour or so after, or just in general..?

Is this because of the insulin response primarily? Maintaining a stable blood glucose level...?

 

[jwbond]

i would guess to:

-keep glycogen levels high
-ensure more weight gain since carbs burn slow
-create insulin spikes to signal your body to put on weight


those are my guesses, but i would love to hear what bryan has to say.

i usually have 5 meals a day all with 40-70 carbs. i am guessing it is a good idea to spread it out evenly like that?

 

[savagebeast]

Carbohydrates help with anabolism by:

* As jwbond said, keeping glycogen stores full (both liver and muscle).
* Maintaining sufficient insulin levels (although more isn't necessarily better). Among other things, insulin helps to control cortisol levels.
* Providing energy for both daily activities and for maintaining protein synthesis. Carbohydrates are the easiest fuel source for the body to utilize. Although the body can convert protein to glucose, this is an inefficient process and energy is lost in the conversion. The body can use fat for energy, but carbohydrates are better for fueling your workout. Fat is more easily used for energy during aerobic exercise, as opposed to weightlifting (which is, of course, anaerobic). However, once glycogen stores are full and you have eaten enough carbohydrates to fulfill your daily energy requirements, excess carbohydrates have nowhere to go but towards fat. A simple rule is "the more active you are, the more carbs you should be eating."

 

[jwbond]

bryan recommends .8-1.0g protein/lb, is there an amount of carbs per lb that he recommends?

also, is it best to spread them out evenly in 5-6 meals?

 

[Joe G]

I read in the ebook...

Quote[/b] ]The ability of the body to grow is effected by the ratio of protein to carbs. It is an inverted U shaped curve - or bell curve - where the top or highest point of the curve is a ratio of 12-15% protein to carbs (diet consisting of ~15% protein). At one peak you have all carbs, at the other you have all protein. It has to do with thermogenesis and hormones.

So the amount of carbs should be the proper ratio to the amount of protein your taking in...

Joe G

 

[savagebeast]

Joe G,

Here's a second opinion on that study.

IMO, protein should be set at 1 g/lb. This goes for whether you're cutting, bulking, low carb, whatever diet you're doing. Then worry about carbs and fat. Set fat somewhere around 25% of total calories or so, then the rest of your calories should come from carbs.

 

[Joe G]

savagebeast,

you might want to copy/paste that article in here so that not everyone that wants to read it has to register to the forum that you found it on. Unfortunately I am one of those lazy people that didn't feel like registering

However, just because you should take in 1g of protein per lb. of body weight doesnt mean that the ratio of protein cannot be 15% of your diet does it?

It is important to note that when you are eating food containing protein the amount of calories that are protein are usually pretty low. For example the amount of calories as proteins that come from soybeans or chicken is only 35% (which can vary obviously). So the other 65% of the calories you take in are not "protein".


Joe G

 

[Totentanz]

Here you go

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Quote[/b] ]
Originally posted by Spencer
This is looking more and more like what Rob Thoburn has been advocating and what i think works (from personal experience): high protein, low to moderate carbs and low fat. 50/25/25.

I guess I see it this way: at 50% protein, you're generating an additional ~25% glucose anyhow. So why not just eat carbs. Just using protein as a glucose source is an expensive (metabolically and financially) way to make glucose IMO.

Quote

]
But what about this from Bryan??
Snippage

Yeah, I turned him onto that particularly paper, a doozy by Stock on thermogenesis. Looked at rate of weight gain (NOT quality) during refeeding with different amounts of protein. Found that 15% total calories was optimal in terms of weight gain/caloric intake. Basically, at protein intake above and below that, more calories were wasted as heat (dietary thermogenesis).

thing is, it didn't take activity into account, also hard to tell if it is a %age base thing (if so, why not just eat 3 g/lb protein and increaes total calories to make that equal 15%) or an absolute amount. Add training, and I"m not sure the 15% holds absolutely as Bryan is suggesting.

AT the same time, excessive protein does just burn off calories for heat, increases protein degrading enzymes (meaning that if you don't take in that much protein all the time, your obdy breaks it down that much faster). I remember Duchaine suggesting that high carb/high protein was causing the body to burn off calories to well thermogenically that mass gains were inhibited (calories wasted as heat can't go to synthesis of tissues), why he suggested moving to Isocaloric ratios: using fat as a metabolic 'damper' (essentially) on top of every other reason to eat more fat.

I guess what we're trying to find is that optiomal combination of both protein intake and calroic intake to optimize mass gains while minimizing fat gains. Preferably with the smallest deficit possible.

That is, you may be able to/need more calories on low-fat, high protein/high-carb because of increased metabolism from thermogenesis. You might need less of a surplus with a lowercarb higher fat approach because less calories are being wasted as heat.

Lyle