Calories for gaining muscle

R

ratty

New Member
in bryans article eating for size he advocates 16 x BW in lbs which equates to 2304 calories for me..

But he doesnt mention whether that is during training days or rest days?

Ive just had a body composition analysis done and my BMR is 1704, with 10% thermic effect of food and daily activity ive estimated about 2000 should be my maintenance calories..

So im aiming to consume 2300-2500 on non-training days and 2600-2800 on training days...

What do you guys think??

Any input is appreciated
 
I go 18 x bodyweight and start adding from there.

Presently I eat around 30 carbs a day Anabolic Diet style.

Daily consumption:

1 lb grass fed organic beef.
1/2 lb turkey.
1 can of canned salmon.
1 can of mackerel.
1 cup of shrimp.
1 cup of almonds.
Mixed organic salad greens + broccoli, feta cheese, cashews dressed in USDA organic olive oil.
Lots of cheese.  I go through a block of swiss in about 4 days and 2-3 bags (about 24 oz or 1.5 lbs) of shredded cheese which I put on turkey, beef, salmon, whatever.

For beverages I drink vegetable juice and artificially flavored kool-aid like thingys I find at walmart.  Sometimes I sweeten them with stevia.  No milk.  No orange juice.  Damn right no soda - ever.

On the weekends I ditch the turkey and the beef and compensate with ravioli, tortellini, and now that I have a pressure cooker, beans.

I use herbs for much of my flavoring.  Dill on salmon.  Tarragon on eggs.  Coriander on beef.  If you are a good chef simply pick up a book on cooking with herbs.  If you are challenged in this area like I am then do as I do and simply read the back of the herb packaging at the grocery store.  Usually the packaging will tell you what the herb or spice goes with.

Some improvements I am making next:

1. Dialing in the carb calories on weekends.
2. Adding more low carb vegetables.
3. Adding fresh fruit on weekends.
4. Cooking beans that taste delicious.
5. Finding something to drink beyond walmart kool-aid thingys.  Possibly coconut milk.
6.  Reigning in my saturated fat intake to 30% of total fat calories.

My input:

1.  Use FitDay.  Google it and use it.  It makes tracking calories very easy.
2.  Include enough flavor variety in your food to make the diet yum-worthy.  This is where my liberal use of stevia, herbs, and spices comes in to play.
3.  I have taken an approach of gradual improvement in my diet.  This allows me time to adjust my lifestyle accordingly.
4.  Last but not least, doubt ye not the power of almonds.  1 cup of almonds = 800 calories.  Say hell yes to nuts!
 
Eat the surplus within the 24 hours AFTER a workout if you are going to split hairs like this.  Remember, growth occurs AFTER the workout, rather than simply on training days.  So if you worked out in the evening and cut back calories on the day after training, you would be making a mistake.  If you want to vary your calories the way you suggest, then do 2300 the 24 hours prior to the workout, 2800 the 24 hours after the workout (keeping protein high, obviously regardless of timeframe) and workout every other day.

But the easier thing to do would be to simply eat your calorie goal every single day.  I really don't think you have to worry much about fat gain on only 16 x bw if you ate that daily.  As Quantum suggested, I would go up to at least 18 x bw, all things considered.  So you could just do 2600 or so every single day.
 
cool thanks for the reply guys..ive decided to stick with 2600 every day for a week and take it from there!

that works out 18 x BW so if i put on a bit too much fat that im not happy about then ill cut back maybe 200 to make my daily calorie goal 2400....
 
I often have questions like this. Back to the beginning of the post, you say that Bryan's article recommends 16XBW, which calculates out to 2300 kcal per day. In "Eating For Size", it's implied that 16XBW is enough calories to cover calories burnt via BMR, daily activity, exercise (you have to lift weights to put on mass afterall) and have enough calories left over to grow on. Though the article never said to, it looks like you corrected for the calories burnt during weight lifting by adding 300 calories to your training days. This actually makes your training day caloric intake higher than the 18XBW number recommended by QuantumPositron and Totentaz. Now over on bodyrecomposition.com, Lyle recommends 16-18XBW, with the implication that 16XBW is for females and 18XBW is for males. He also recommends 10-20% of maintenance. Now, if by "maintenance" he means what he usually means, this includes exercise (about an hour of moderate exercise a day a day). 10-20% of this "maintenance" can easily equal more than 18XBW.

Anyway, using all these multipliers and a couple estimations of calories burnt exercizing, recommendations for bulking calories can vary by about 800 calories. So where do most people have the best luck, just eating strictly 18XBW every day, or eating a little more (18XBW + 300) to account for calorie expenditure during weight lifting.

I know this is splitting hairs on a somewhat old thread, but I'm doing the same thing ratty is, eating bulking levels 24 hours after working out and maintenance 24 hours before. I'm only doing this because although my cuts go reasonably well (slowly, but well), I'm never very happy with my bulks; always seems like I gain too much fat / muscle.
 
IMO the hard numbers and equations are only there as a guide to get started. sooo much can change or vary depending on age, activity level, goals etc. etc.

most shoot for around 1lb a week wgt. gain. this allows the body enough to grow bigger and stronger at a good rate without A)too much gain too fast which usually = mostly fat or B) too stingy with the cals which keeps the fat in check but also the muscle gains.

if bwx18 has you gaining 2-3lbs a week then its not for you (if you want to avoid the re-fat) no matter who wrote it. the reverse is true as well. i can speak for myself in that in my 20s i couldnt gain a lb on bwx18. in my 30s bwx18 worked real well and now in my early 40s its more like 16-17.

anyway it think the main point is to estab. a cal level that works for you (1lb a week gain?). once you know that and the foods and macros it takes to hit that day in day out then it makes more sense to start splitting hairs like alternating bulk/maint. and exer. cal expenditure etc etc.

good luck
 
bluejacket,

Very simply put and it makes sense!

You know us scrawny dudes though we want some magic method which simply isnt going to work! lol

Just patience and consistency right?
 
<div>
(ratty @ Dec. 18 2009,8:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just patience and consistency right?</div>
Yup. And counting, tracking and logging. There is no way you can know where you went wrong if you are not counting calories and logging that, comparing to your body weight changes.
 
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(electric @ Dec. 18 2009,10:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(ratty @ Dec. 18 2009,8:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just patience and consistency right?</div>
Yup. And counting, tracking and logging. There is no way you can know where you went wrong if you are not counting calories and logging that, comparing to your body weight changes.</div>
This is the biggest error most people make. You can't tell what is working, if anything, if you aren't measuring it.
 
Yeah, those are all good points.  It's all subject to the individual.  I did one bulk where I didn't count what I ate at all, just ate a ton (GFH diet); it took forever to get the fat off.  Now I'm hesitant to increase the calories too much.  Plus I've always thought I had a slower metabolism, but I'm slowly gaining on 20xBW. What I've had trouble reconciling myself with is the fact that everyone (Lyle, Bryan, etc) mentions how much food bulking takes. How hard it is to get calories in. In my experience, 18-20xBW seems really easy to get. So much so that I figured I must be doing something wrong.

Thanks for the help guys.  It always impresses me how friendly, helpful and knowledgeable this forum is.
 
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