chins, pull ups, and growing wings

B

beingisbeing

New Member
I tried searching for a a thread about this to no avail, though I'm sure one exists as I've seen quad and others mention it.

My understanding is that chins (supinated grip) activate the biceps more while pull ups (pronated grip usually wider grip) will activate the lats/rear delts more.

My friend, a seasoned weight lifter, says the reason I'm not 'growing wings' or getting much of a V is because I do chins, not pull ups, and don't do my BB rows in the wide grip, trunk horizontal to the ground, but I guess have been doing something more like a yates row, body at 45 degrees, elbows in, weight pulled up to the navel.

Any opinions?

(I'm also a relative newbie, and my progress thus far has been some muscle gain with big time fat loss. this could also be why I'm not 'growing wings.' hyper caloric diet might change that).
 
I've had good lats growth with chins. I don't think that if you use a good weight it will have that much of a difference between chins and pull ups. Of course everyone is different so you could experiment with pull ups and see how you respond to them. I personally prefer doing rows with the trunk parallel to the ground like pendlays to put emphasis in the back area and less in the traps.

One other thing that helps with the V shape (besides a small waist, of course) are the shoulders, specially the lateral delts which you can work with upright rows or lateral raises.
 
<div>
(electric @ Jun. 16 2008,11:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've had good lats growth with chins. I don't think that if you use a good weight it will have that much of a difference between chins and pull ups. Of course everyone is different so you could experiment with pull ups and see how you respond to them. I personally prefer doing rows with the trunk parallel to the ground like pendlays to put emphasis in the back area and less in the traps.

One other thing that helps with the V shape (besides a small waist, of course) are the shoulders, specially the lateral delts which you can work with upright rows or lateral raises.</div>
Honestly I feel like I have def grown some in the lat area from the chins and rows as I have been doing them. I feel the burn in the right spot, for what its worth, and I can see little winglets for the first time when I flex. Nothing impressive, but considered relative to what it was 6 months ago, something is working.

Like you said, I'm not sure it would make much of a difference, but I don't have much experience and my buddy does (as do most guys on this forum) so I'm all ears.

It seems my method of doing rows isn't very popular!

If any one else has comments/suggestions I'd love to hear.
 
Put your hand on your lat, then move your hand downward as though you were doing a wide grip pullup. Now try it as though you were doing a narrow grip chin. Now which do you think has the greatest range of motion? Which one do you feel your lat contracting most?
 
Oh, Totz beat me to it.

If you can, why not focus on a different grip each cycle? So one cycle you'd do chins, the next pull-ups, another time neutral grip etc. You could also experiment with different grip widths. Obviously, a narrower grip forces a greater range of motion and requires more work to be done for a given weight each rep.
 
...and not to mention (but I will) that chins have the biceps doing some of the work. Pullups...you're on your own baby!
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My friend, a seasoned weight lifter, says the reason I'm not 'growing wings' or getting much of a V is because I do chins, not pull ups, and don't do my BB rows in the wide grip, trunk horizontal to the ground, but I guess have been doing something more like a yates row, body at 45 degrees, elbows in, weight pulled up to the navel. </div>

Opinions? Yeah, your friend talks Bull ...., not unusual for a weight lifter who hasn't at least investigated physiology charts and detailed information!
wink.gif


Check this and have a look at the muscles affected: Weighted Underhand Chinup

It is also common knowledge that a muscle has a better hypertrophic stimulus when strectched under load, now think about the 2 movements...which one provides the best stretch...yep...no brainer! And load, which can can you load more...yep the underhand variety, why because your biceps is helping out.

Next time give your friend an anatomy lesson and show him why, he's going to scratch his head!
biggrin.gif
 
If you really want to &quot;feel&quot; any variant of chins or pullups more in your lats, try depressing (down) and retracting (back) your shoulder blades before the pull and holding it throughout each rep, keeping the back arched. It can be mentally useful to think of the exercise at this point as &quot;chest ups,&quot; instead of chin-ups, to cue yourself to do the right things.

I predict many will be able to do very few like this, and may want to start with lat pulldowns in this style.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It can be mentally useful to think of the exercise at this point as &quot;chest ups,&quot; instead of chin-ups, to cue yourself to do the right things.</div>
Ditto.

Just think about this. When doing lat pulldowns with a light weight, do you aim to hit your chest with the bar of just get it below chin level?

I suppose most would choose the first option. When things get heavier, though, chest-ups quickly degenerate into chin-ups.
blush.gif
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Jun. 16 2008,3:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Put your hand on your lat, then move your hand downward as though you were doing a wide grip pullup. Now try it as though you were doing a narrow grip chin. Now which do you think has the greatest range of motion? Which one do you feel your lat contracting most?</div>
Tot:
I'm a bit of a moron when it comes to things mechanical, so lets see...

I can see that narrower grip creates greater range of motion...I think thats what I'm feeling anyway.

But does this vary with a pronated vs supinated grip as well? if they are set at the same grip width? Thats something I can't really feel with my hand...

Lol: the grip variation was something I'd do within a cycle. and it got out of hand and a bit OCD excessive. so the plan now was to vary it cycle to cycle, but then my buddy threw the monkey wrench at me!
 
<div>
(Fausto @ Jun. 16 2008,10:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My friend, a seasoned weight lifter, says the reason I'm not 'growing wings' or getting much of a V is because I do chins, not pull ups, and don't do my BB rows in the wide grip, trunk horizontal to the ground, but I guess have been doing something more like a yates row, body at 45 degrees, elbows in, weight pulled up to the navel. </div>

Opinions? Yeah, your friend talks Bull ...., not unusual for a weight lifter who hasn't at least investigated physiology charts and detailed information!
wink.gif


Check this and have a look at the muscles affected: Weighted Underhand Chinup

It is also common knowledge that a muscle has a better hypertrophic stimulus when strectched under load, now think about the 2 movements...which one provides the best stretch...yep...no brainer! And load, which can can you load more...yep the underhand variety, why because your biceps is helping out.

Next time give your friend an anatomy lesson and show him why, he's going to scratch his head!
biggrin.gif
</div>
very good points fausto... makes perfect sense!

but I'm assuming its still important at some point to get the wide grip pull up together? do you use both?

9to5 and mike: i def see that. it was major breathrough for me to think of these exercises as 'chest ups.' it was the first time i actually felt my lats working. up to then, it was like an uncomfortable arm/deltoid workout that i always dreaded. after i got the 'chest up' vibe down, i always looked forward to bursting out of my t shirt BACK FIRST for once from the pump...

I wonder what the latasaurus rex steve jones thinks on these issues...!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top