clustering and metabolic stress

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Nemesis7884, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. Nemesis7884

    Nemesis7884 New Member

    hey folkes

    i usually don't cluster my first set - but all after that one...not only to manage fatigue but also because i am simply not able to complete a full set when using heavier weights / weights closer to rm

    my question is: if you also cluster your first set for any given muscle - therefore just everything, will this cause enough metabolic stress for grow independently of nr of reps you are using??

    if you cluster everything, there is no big difference in training your 10s or 5s except the weight you are using?
    except of doing 2x10 you coud do 5x4 or whatever...

    or will the short pause between clustered sets still lead to enough stress?

    the question for me is: to cluster or not to cluster the first set?

    or would it be a combination of both? e.g. adding a hig rep set for the stress and the cluster for strain?
     
  2. faz

    faz Active Member

    if you can manage the 1st set without clustering then you dont need to cluster.
     
  3. Nemesis7884

    Nemesis7884 New Member

    i am talking about the sets after the first (if you do more then 1) usually i am not able to complete to full sets with a weight close to rm...

    moreover i want to know: cluster vs not to cluster - if you cluster from beginning on to manage fatigue, does this cause enough stress?
     
  4. Nemesis7884

    Nemesis7884 New Member

    bump

    the question is - where to set the focus between strain and stress to create the optimal environnement for growth?

    the easiest way to control fatigue and make workouts as effective as possible in terms of intensity/strain would be to always train with a very low rep range - e.g. cluster simply every set into 3-4 rep sets and just increase weight, but the question is, will this lead to enough necessary stress?
     
  5. noobie

    noobie New Member

    If the load is high enough then yes it's enough stress. But that is all subject when "the load is enough" so I would not really worry about it, cluster when you need to, and don't when you don't, just keep progressing the weight. I only cluster at the end of my 10s and 5s. Negatives are always done one by one for me, almost completely eccentric movement only.


    pzhang
     
  6. Nemesis7884

    Nemesis7884 New Member

    well "cluster when you need to" - i don't think its that easy - the way i am thinking about is simple:

    the more i cluster
    the more i can control fatigue and burn out
    the more volume i can handle
    the more frequency i can handle
    will result in more growth - except the clustering does not cause enough stress...
     
  7. noobie

    noobie New Member

    o you meant metabolic fatigue. woops. You could always just do 15s, or a burnset after your clustering, thats perfectly fine too. If that's too much, you could always try half reps(a little bit taken from BLOWreps) and just work on the stretch ROM of the exercise, which i think also causes sufficient metabolic stress? I'm not sure, I remember reading around the forum that stretch point movements cause metabolic fatigue. If you think u can handle the volume and fatigue, go ahead and just perform a burn set afterwards. That's always enough for me. I train frequently(5-6xweek) so the advantage of that is whenever I feel that i'm burning out I just take a couple days off, and get back at it with clustering and burn sets.



    pzhang
     
  8. robefc

    robefc New Member

    I'm not an expert by any means but I would say if you're completing sets that are less than 10 reps at a time (so obviously if clustering your first set this will apply) add in a burn set at 15s weight or a pulse set then you're covering all bases.

    I'd be interested to see what more knowledgeable people say about the level of metabolic stress from clustering - I would have thought the short rest period before cluster sets might result in more metabolic stress (is that the right phrase?!) than straigh sets with a longer rest
     
  9. Levrone

    Levrone New Member

    metabolic stress is no big factor for hypertrophy - but a small one.
    im handling it like that: in the first weeks i have no need for clustering - high reps are causing enough metabolic stress for me.
    later in my cycle i start clustering. my only goal is to have a long TUT with the heavy weight without fatigueing my CNS. this way i can train very often, very heavy. i produce no metabolic stress though. because of that i will add strip sets every other training.
    i never ever go to failure - i think there is no need to.
     
  10. Nemesis7884

    Nemesis7884 New Member

    so you go hard on your first set close to the limit (e.g. full 5 reps) or go straight into clustering?

    i am thinking about trying instead of something like 5/4/3/3

    straight clustering from the beginning: 3/3/3/3/3 to spare the cns...

    i am also wondering if you just take very short breaks between the sets if this will cause enough stress over the whole workout...cummulative

    or as you said, just adding a high rep set / strip set whatever...


    any opinions on straight clustering? okay, with 10s its no big deal during the 1set...but with heavy weights during the 5s, if you cluster from beginning on, this might cause less fatigue and therefore let you train with more volume and more frequently...
     
  11. Levrone

    Levrone New Member

    im doing it like circuit-training:
    today i made:
    3Rsquats-3Rbenchpress-3Rchins-3Rsquats-3Rbenchpress-3Rchins-3Rsquats... till i finish 30R for every movement.
    after that i did:
    3Rdeadlift-3RDips-3Rmilit.press...

    this way it saves time and you get a lot of TUT without fatiguing your CNS.
     

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