Clustering, Myo-rep, Varying Rep Ranges Barbell Plan

[NWlifter]

cool adjustment on the frequency.
I had a thread years ago where I was thinking it might be cool to do
2 weeks of 15's , one set,(1x15) 3x a week full body
2 weeks of 10s, two sets (2x10), but each muscle twice a week (ab, rest ab, weekend)
2 weeks of 5's, three sets (3x5), each muscle three times in two weeks (A, rest, B, rest, A, weekend, B, rest, A, rest, B, weekend)

 

[Clayton]

Nice! Yeah, frequency was an overlooked variable for too long for me. I finally realized I don't have to keep the same frequency all of the time. Interesting on having more time off during the 5s. I might try something similar, depending on recovery. I've never ran a full cycle of having a different number of sets for the different rep ranges.

As I understand his articles, Beardsley argues that recovery should be better in the 5s vs the higher rep training because they cause less metabolic stress. Perhaps that's true on paper, but my body seems to always recover quicker (maybe more joint recovery than muscle tissue, though?) with reps in the 8-12 range (~36-48 hours) and reps in the ~25+ range (~24-36 hours). Another factor I hadn't thought of might be that I tend to do low-rep training with free weights (i.e., back squat or barbell bench) vs. cables/machines (i.e., belt squat or cable chest press) on the higher reps, so maybe that plays a role.

 

[Clayton]

Random ramblings:

If I take off training for a month or more, I start the high reps off at laughingly low weights. If A/B split, I combine into full body and "train" (more like a 15-minute warm-up) every day, but the weights are so low that it takes about 2 weeks before I get close to the normal weight progression. Then, start the normal training split/progression. It works well to do at home, but it wouldn't be something I would bother with if taking the time to drive to a gym. I like it because I avoid any soreness and mentally get back into a routine.

A few other tweaks based on work/family commitments and sleep/diet:

1) If I know I won't be able to train for several days, I'll do a higher frequency beforehand and hit everything every 36 hours. Either combine into full body or stick with A/B and do something like this for a few days:
Full Body:
Day 1: AM
Day 2: PM
Day 3: Off
Day 4: AM
Day 5: PM
Days 6 off, to whenever I can train normally again.

Or, A/B (prefer this):
Day 1: AM: A, PM: B
Day 2: PM: A
Day 3: AM: B, PM: A
Day 4: PM: B
Days 5-, off, to whenever I can train again

I've also done that a few times during the early two weights of a rep block.

2) "DUP it up" either after the 5s or close to the end of the 5s.
I like this as it allows me to extend the training cycle longer and work on increasing my rep maxes for as long as possible (i.e., until I run out of gas or need to take a week off for work/family). I rotate through the different days: medium (~8-12 reps), light (~25 reps), and heavy (~5). These are all close to failure and autoregulated, so the actual reps vary.

Frequency is all over the board on this block. Either increasing the weight slightly or doing slightly more reps from session to session. I enjoy training this style, but each session tends to take longer and over the long term it doesn't seem to make a much of a difference (for me) on increasing strength/size vs. the normal HST progression (as this allows for more frequency and less aches).

3) Adding volume by adding 1-2 normal sets before the myo-reps activation set:
I can't tell if this makes a difference for me. I'm trying to eat at slightly below maintenance, but it might work well in a calorie surplus? At least for me, it doesn't seem to negatively affect recovery, like adding more mini-sets to the myo-reps.

4) Different A/B days
I prefer this as it allows for a longer training cycle and just for the variety aspect. As an example:
A1:
Lat Pull Down
Barbell Bench
Back Squat
Optional: Biceps/Triceps variation

B1:
Triangle-Bar Cable Row
Deficit Deadlift
Cable Rope Upright Row
Optional: Calves

A2:
Triangle-Bar Lat Pull Down
Incline DB Bench
Slant Board Belt Squat (allows for lighter weight and my attachment is more cumbersome to load heavy)
Optional: Biceps/Triceps variation

B2:
Neutral Grip/Shoulder Width Cable Row
Leg Curls
Cable Lateral Raises
Optional: Calves

Ideally, I'd add an A3 and B3, but I run into issues on the rep ranges with some exercises. Which brings me to what I want to try!

5) Full DUP Training Cycle. What I want to try during a slight calorie surplus (hoping for January):
Vary the rep progressions for a whole training cycle based on exercises that work well (or ones I prefer) for those rep ranges. I'm not sure yet on the exact rep progressions, but something like this:
A1/B1 ("medium"): 20/15/10
A2/B2 ("light"): 35/30/25
A3/B3 ("heavy"): 12/8/4

So, if training 6x week, the full cycle would take 9 weeks? And probably about 12+ weeks when I work in 2 days on, 1 day off as needed. For example:
Day 1: A1
Day 2: B1
Day 3: A2
Day 4: B2
Day 5: A3
Day 6: B3
Day 7: Off

Towards the end of the rep blocks:
Day 1: A1
Day 2: B1
Day 3: Off
Day 4: A2
Day 5: B2
Day 6: Off
Day 7: A3
Day 8: B3
Day 9: Off
repeat

 

[NWlifter]

Yes, I don't believe that new fad of recovery being better with heavier. I was thinking the frequency reduction based on the volume (1x15, 2x10, 3x5_)

Ok interesting on the second post, cool info.

 

[Clayton]

Short version: I tend to add the rest days as I get closer and closer to failure.

I plugged part of an HST routine into Claude to give a hypothetical framework on balancing RIR vs. Recovery Needs using a "Current 10 Rep Max of 225lbs and assume strength increases of 1-3%, when averaged over 3 workouts."

Here's what it spit out (I probably need to improve the prompt):

Here's an analysis of recovery needs, reps in reserve (RIR), and estimated new rep maxes for the given workout progression, based on current research:

Workout	Weight	Recovery Time	Reps in Reserve (RIR)	Estimated New 10RM
1	200lbs	24-36 hours	4-5 RIR	226-227lbs
2	205lbs	24-36 hours	3-4 RIR	227-228lbs
3	210lbs	36-48 hours	2-3 RIR	228-229lbs
4	215lbs	36-48 hours	1-2 RIR	229-230lbs
5	220lbs	48-60 hours	0-1 RIR	230-231lbs
6	225lbs	48-72 hours	0-1 RIR	231-232lbs

Research on recovery needs and training intensity:

1. A study by Pareja-Blanco et al. (2017) examined the effects of velocity loss during resistance training on strength gains and muscle growth. They found that training with lower velocity loss (20% vs. 40%) resulted in similar strength gains but required less recovery time between sessions (Pareja-Blanco et al., 2017).
   Reference: Pareja-Blanco, F., Rodríguez-Rosell, D., Sánchez-Medina, L., Sanchis-Moysi, J., Dorado, C., Mora-Custodio, R., ... & González-Badillo, J. J. (2017). Effects of velocity loss during resistance training on athletic performance, strength gains and muscle adaptations. Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports, 27(7), 724-735. https://doi.org/10.1111/sms.12678
2. Zourdos et al. (2016) investigated the relationship between repetitions in reserve (RIR) and bar velocity. They found that as RIR decreased, bar velocity also decreased, suggesting that training closer to failure requires more recovery time (Zourdos et al., 2016).
   Reference: Zourdos, M. C., Klemp, A., Dolan, C., Quiles, J. M., Schau, K. A., Jo, E., ... & Blanco, R. (2016). Novel resistance training–specific rating of perceived exertion scale measuring repetitions in reserve. The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research, 30(1), 267-275. https://doi.org/10.1519/JSC.0000000000001049
3. A meta-analysis by Grgic et al. (2018) examined the effects of resistance training frequency on muscle hypertrophy. They found that higher training frequencies (2-3 times per week) were associated with greater muscle growth compared to lower frequencies, suggesting that recovery needs may be shorter than previously thought when training volume is equated (Grgic et al., 2018).
   Reference: Grgic, J., Schoenfeld, B. J., Davies, T. B., Lazinica, B., Krieger, J. W., & Pedisic, Z. (2018). Effect of resistance training frequency on gains in muscular strength: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Sports Medicine, 48(5), 1207-1220. https://doi.org/10.1007/s40279-018-0872-x
4. Carroll et al. (2019) investigated the effects of proximity to failure on strength adaptations. They found that training to failure was not necessary for maximal strength gains, and that leaving 1-3 repetitions in reserve could lead to similar strength improvements with potentially reduced fatigue and recovery needs (Carroll et al., 2019).
   Reference: Carroll, K. M., Bernards, J. R., Bazyler, C. D., Taber, C. B., Stuart, C. A., DeWeese, B. H., ... & Stone, M. H. (2019). Divergent performance outcomes following resistance training using repetition maximums or relative intensity. International Journal of Sports Physiology and Performance, 14(1), 46-54. https://doi.org/10.1123/ijspp.2018-0045
5. Gonzalez-Badillo et al. (2017) examined the effects of training with different relative loads on strength gains and found that training with moderate loads (70-80% 1RM) led to similar strength improvements as training with heavier loads (>80% 1RM), while potentially requiring less recovery time (Gonzalez-Badillo et al., 2017).
   Reference: González-Badillo, J. J., Yañez-García, J. M., Mora-Custodio, R., & Rodríguez-Rosell, D. (2017). Velocity loss as a variable for monitoring resistance exercise. International Journal of Sports Medicine, 38(03), 217-225. https://doi.org/10.1055/s-0042-120324

Based on these studies, we can conclude that training further from failure (higher RIR) generally requires less recovery time between sessions. As the workouts progress and intensity increases (moving closer to failure), more recovery time is needed. The estimated recovery times and RIR values in the table above reflect this principle.
The new rep max estimates are based on the assumption of a 1-3% strength increase averaged over three workouts, as specified in the question. This progressive increase in strength explains why the final workout (225lbs) is still estimated to have 0-1 RIR, despite being the initial 10RM weight.
It's important to note that individual recovery needs may vary based on factors such as training experience, overall workload, nutrition, and sleep quality. The recovery times provided are general estimates and should be adjusted based on individual response and performance in subsequent training sessions.

 

[NWlifter]

very interesting, sounds very spot on !

 

[Clayton]

4+ week experiment time!​

I'm feeling great, so instead of continuing with what is working, I want to mix it up. We were out of town for Labor Day, so I ended up taking a week off from training.

Even though my weight has been stuck at 205 lbs, I want to bump calories up for the next month or so.

Weights lifted aren't high yet (225lb x 5 for deficit RDL from the floor, etc), but I keep slowly increasing month to month. Basically, a slow, but easy progressive overload. I think I'll be hitting some life-time PRs by this spring or summer.

Based on reading through some of mickc1965's training log (amazing, it's a decade long!):

• Apr 25, 2014

• #49

Cycle Summary

12 March Starting weight was 178lbs - Finish weight is 183.8lbs so increase of 5.8lbs
Caliper Readings
JP3 (7.8%) & JP4 (8.31%) suggests that all increase is lbm with fat the same
JP7 (7.8%) & Parillo (7.44%) suggests lbm is up 6.8lbs and fat down 1lb
DW (10.84%) suggests lbm up 8.8lbs with fat down 3lbs

In saying that I am nowhere near 8% BF and based on DW cannot see how can lose 3lb of fat with a gain of nearly 6lb in total body weight - the overall skinfold measure based on the 10 sites for all equations is a better yardstick but even that reduced from 61mm to 55.5mm.
Based on all the above is it likely that 6 x full body workouts per week can reduce body fat levels in a calorie surplus diet? Lets see what the next cycle brings after SD (only 3 days in and itching to start training already)

(Bold added).

I'm going to run ~5-6x week full body HST progression + DUP rotation.

A few of my rep maxes are complete estimates (haven't done stuff like cable bench press in a while, etc). So, I'll increase the weight slightly or the reps on stuff like that workout to workout. For example, on the high rep days, once I go up in weight, I'll hit ~20 reps for the activation set the first workout, then ~25, then ~30 (estimated as wanting to stay 3+ RIR) before increasing the weight. Also, my cable machine is in 10lb increments per side, and I haven't ordered https://gym-pin.com/collections/gympins yet.

"DUP it up"
Each workout gets the normal 6 weight decreases working back from the 6th workout. So, the first two weeks should be easy going. Assuming 6x frequency, the cycle should last 3 weeks, plus I'm going to continue it until I stop either increasing the weights or reps workout to workout (or run out of gas). Ideally, this is a 6+ week higher calorie blast!

Frequency:
Ideally 6x week, but the plan is a minimum frequency of 4x per week though. I'll be out of town next week for a few days for a kid's tournament, so I'll just use whatever they have at the hotel gym. Those will likely be higher rep days.

I also stumbled across a Reddit comment by Nuckols (regarding RIR):

I think this is a useful meta-analysis to help understand these concepts: https://sportrxiv.org/index.php/server/preprint/view/295/699
Going a bit closer to failure generally leads to a bit more hypertrophy per-set, but that doesn't imply that you need to go super close to failure to achieve hypertrophy. Like, the effect size at 8 reps from failure is about half the size of the effect size a 0 reps from failure. You need to get within a couple reps of failure to maximize the hypertrophy stimulus per set, but you do still get a hypertrophy stimulus with more RIR. You just probably won't grow quite as much if you do the same number of sets (but, you could also just do more sets to get a similar stimulus),
And for strength, there's not much of a relationship at all between proximity to failure and strength. It's worth nothing that that's based on studies that last for (typically) <16 weeks, so I wouldn't necessarily extrapolate that out indefinitely. I do think that if you're not going close enough to failure to achieve hypertrophy, that'll limit your strength development long-term, but it's not a major factor at all in the short-to-medium term.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StrongerByScience/s/BzMncpfVwN

My half-baked understanding and thought process:
1) The first two weeks are easy (or should be easy) training, but it should elicit some slight muscle growth, especially taken in the aggregate.
2) More frequency (nearly daily stimulus) = nearly constant MPS = 'mo gainz and 'mo fun (my brain prefers daily training).
3) Frequency is crazy, but weekly volume isn't. Myo-reps are kind of hard to calculate the exact work set equivalent, but assuming 1 activation set + 3 mini-sets = 3 work sets. That's roughly 18 work sets per week. Subtract for the early part of the training since it has a higher RIR (not anywhere close to failure), so I think it should be manageable for a month, plus however long I progress.

I started this morning:
Day 1: 1 myo-rep set of 20-30 reps + 3 mini sets.
Day 2: 1 cluster/myo activation set of 4-6 rep + 3 mini sets. I will likely do straight sets at some point. This seems to be the most fatiguing for me among the rep ranges when paired with myos.
Day 3: 1 8-12 reps + 3 mini sets.
Repeat.
Days off as needed/schedule dictates.

Brackets indicate grouped exercises for warm-ups with 1 warm-up set on the 2nd exercise after the work set for the first exercise. For example, 2 warm-up sets for lat pull down, then 1 for bench. Then the work set for lat pull down. Then a warm up set for bench. Rest, then work set for bench.

Day 1 (High Rep):​

I use the belt squat cable attachment for everything except for lat/bench here, so it makes for a quick workout. However, I waited 5 minutes before I hit cable RDL after belt squats today. High rep belt squats = cardio.

[Lat Pull Down

Cable Bench]

[Neutral Grip Cable Rows

Belt Squat

Cable RDL

Cable Upright Row]

[Seated Straight Bar OH Triceps

Straight Bar Cable Curls

Donkey Cable Calf Raises]

I really love belt squats. Get full range of motion without any back strain or flexibility tightness.

Day 2 (Low Rep):​

[Single Arm Cable Row (looks like a DB row)

Barbell Bench]

[Angles90 Unilateral Lat Pull Down

Leg Curls]

[DB Shoulder Press

Barbell Squat]

[Tricep Pressdowns

DB Incline Curls

Single leg Cable Calf Raises]

For the calf raises. I have a calf block and use the low row cable paired with the belt squat belt. Kind of tricky to get into, but it works great for constant tension.

Day 3 (Medium Rep):​

[Angles90 Cable Rows

DB Incline Bench]

[Neutral Grip Lat

Triceps Rope OH]

[Slant Board Back Squat

Deficit RDL from Floor]

[Cable Lateral Raises

Unilateral Cable Curls]

Cable Calves]

I really love the Angles90 handles. I get a better grip than normal attachments.

Exercise selection and order are a little wonky/imperfect, but they're largely based on how easy/difficult it is to arrange my equipment without having to move stuff around a ton.

Feel free to give me heck if I don't post an update within 6 weeks! That should be sometime in mid October.

 

[Clayton]

I went down a rabbit hole over the weekend (at in-laws house, so had some time to kill) reading about DUP.
Also this gem by Old and Grey, Jan 30, 2015

Bryan has stated that his sample programs of using 2 week blocks is merely for simplicity and easier for people to comprehend although it may not be ideal. I am not sure which principle of HST DUP supposedly violates:

Frequency
Mechanical Load
Progression
Strategic Deconditioning

If I had to guess, I would guess that some people may think that progression under HST has to be linear with each workout. That is not the case. Linearity applies to within rep ranges and not as to how rep ranges are applied. Taking this to the extreme, one would have to conclude that "zig-zagging" violates the progression principle, which it may, but Bryan considers it as an acceptable variation.

Of course, you can certainly design many programs using DUP that do violate the HST principles in some manner but you can also design programs that use DUP that do not violate HST principles.

In either case, one should experiment and find what works best for themselves no matter what name is arbitrarily assigned to it. Whatever you call it will not help you build more muscle.

But Jester counters, Jan 31, 2015:

mickc1965 said:
But you do if you follow Vanilla HST, in both weeks 3 and 5 you are lifting lighter loads (and for less reps per set) than the loads used to finish weeks 2 and 4, is DUP not just zig zagging more often? the start and the end weights are the same (well at least in my set up they would be) just a different method of getting there.

DUP will invalidate the benefits (or largely invalidate) of SD (assuming you subscribe to the hypothesis).

Training 5's or 8's is going to largely invalidate any work you would do at 12, or 15 etc. in terms of hypertrophy - again, assuming you subscribe to the underlying scientific premise of HST.

Minor zig-zag? Largely irrelevant. Chronic zig-zag ala DUP? Not something HST's hypothesis allows. For all the talk of 'principles', HST is still a specified system.

It is probably worth adding the caveat that the physiology of anyone on chemical assistance or TRT (ala the T-levels of 25 or 30 yr old at 40,50,60,70 yrs old) is not really within the bounds of the discussion. This isn't meant as a shot at O&G, but it is reality.

As O&G said; calling the progrm 'DUP HST' won't make it more effective. People have the need to apply the HST label to their program, which is admirable but misdirected. If the most effective training you perform is not one that could be genuinely categorised as HST, then that's 'OK'.

My uneducated take? I don't know, but varying the rep ranges within the week is fun and variety (and easier on my joints). My setup for cable bench doesn't work well for low reps, but does for high reps, but barbell bench works well for low reps. Same for back squat vs. belt squat.

 

[Clayton]

I plugged the principles into Claude and ChatGPT. Here's are the combined responses (this is mainly for my notes to look back later to see what is working vs. isn't!):

Analysis of Daily Undulating Periodization (DUP) in Relation to Training Principles​

Daily Undulating Periodization (DUP) is a training approach that involves manipulating training variables (such as volume, intensity, and exercise selection) on a daily basis within a week. Let's analyze how DUP aligns with the given principles, highlighting any conflicts:

Principle 1: The body will adapt in a manner specific to the demands placed upon it.​

Compliance: DUP complies with this principle. By varying the demands placed on the body through different training parameters each day, DUP promotes specific adaptations to various stimuli. This specificity aligns well with the principle of specific adaptation to imposed demands (SAID).
My note: the weights are still going up week to week.

Principle 2: The hypertrophic potential of any load is dependent on the condition of the tissue at the time the load is applied.​

Compliance: DUP is consistent with this principle. By alternating between different training stimuli, DUP allows for varied tissue conditions, potentially optimizing hypertrophic responses. This approach can help prevent overtraining and ensure that muscles are in an optimal state for hypertrophy.

My note: workout to workout the weights vary, but the overall load is increasing week to week. So, it should fit the framework?

Principle 3: Once the anabolic load-stress stimulus threshold is reached any additional "work" fails to produce significantly greater anabolic effects.​

Potential Conflict: DUP aligns with this principle but also presents a potential conflict. By varying the training stress daily, DUP can help prevent excessive "junk volume" that surpasses the anabolic threshold. However, DUP often involves high-frequency training, which might lead to surpassing the anabolic threshold frequently. The variation in intensity and volume can mitigate this risk by ensuring that not every session is maximally taxing.

My note: So, basically don't do unnecessary extra sets. However, daily training might fall into this if not sufficiently recovered.

Principle 4: The loading stimulus must be applied with sufficient frequency to create a new and consistent environment.​

Compliance: DUP complies with this principle. It typically involves training muscle groups multiple times per week, ensuring sufficient frequency of stimulus application. This high-frequency nature of DUP supports the creation of a consistent environment for adaptation.

My note: I see the high rep days as "active recovery" (although a little more painful than true active recovery), which allows for a higher frequency.

Principle 5: A given load-stress (or workout) applied in a consistent manner will produce diminishing returns over time.​

Compliance: DUP is fully consistent with this principle. By varying the load-stress daily, it aims to prevent the diminishing returns associated with consistent application of the same stimulus. This directly addresses the plateau effect associated with consistent, unchanging stimuli.

My note: HST weight progression avoids this.

Principle 6: In order for any load-stress to continue to be effective over time the degree or intensity of the load-stress must be progressively increased.​

Compliance: DUP can comply with this principle if implemented correctly. Progressive overload can be incorporated into the DUP framework by gradually increasing the overall training stress over time. This allows for the load-stress to continue being effective over time.

My note: "increasing the overall training stress over time" is better than my phrasing.

Principle 7: The resistance to further hypertrophy brought on by consistent loading of the tissue can be partially reversed by temporarily removing the loading stimulus.​

Potential Conflict: DUP may partially conflict with this principle. While DUP does vary the loading stimulus daily, it typically doesn't include prolonged periods of complete removal of the loading stimulus. This could potentially limit the opportunity for the "rebound" effect described in this principle. DUP does not typically include periods of complete unloading or deloading, which could conflict with the need for temporary unloading to reverse resistance to hypertrophy.

My note: I'll take a week off whenever I run out of gas or schedule dictates.

Summary​

Daily Undulating Periodization generally aligns well with most of the given principles, particularly those related to specificity, frequency, and progressive overload. The main potential conflicts arise with principles related to surpassing the anabolic threshold and the need for temporary unloading to reverse resistance to hypertrophy. However, these conflicts are minor, and DUP can still be an effective training approach when implemented correctly.

Research supports the efficacy of DUP for strength and hypertrophy gains. For instance, a meta-analysis by Grgic et al. (2017) found that DUP produced greater strength gains compared to traditional periodization in both trained and untrained individuals (Effect Size = 0.27, 95% CI: 0.08-0.45).

My note: I wonder if this type of HST-DUP cycle is more geared towards strength adaptions vs. hypertrophy?

References​

1. Grgic, J., Mikulic, P., Podnar, H., & Pedisic, Z. (2017). Effects of linear and daily undulating periodized resistance training programs on measures of muscle hypertrophy: A systematic review and meta-analysis. PeerJ, 5, e3695. https://doi.org/10.7717/peerj.3695
2. Rhea, M. R., Ball, S. D., Phillips, W. T., & Burkett, L. N. (2002). A comparison of linear and daily undulating periodized programs with equated volume and intensity for strength. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 16(2), 250-255. Link
3. Kraemer, W. J., & Fleck, S. J. (2007). Optimizing strength training: Designing nonlinear periodization workouts. Human Kinetics.

 

[Clayton]

"DUP it up" experiment update: Food intake has been clean, and body weight is up 7lbs. I wanted to continue with "double progression" within the rep ranges, but I'm ready for a break. I'm taking 5 days off from training, so it's not a true SD.

I thought I'd prefer DUP, but maybe my memory is foggy from the last time I tried it ~10 years ago. I like full body nearly daily, but I think the overall training load was increasing too quickly. I guess I prefer the waves of the normal HST progression. The other complaint is that the workouts started taking longer and longer.

Here's the plan:
I'm wondering if larger rep range jumps will make a difference.

HST progression, but rep ranges of 24/12/6, and ideally, extend the 6s with a 6-8 rep range/double progression until the end of the year.

1 Myo-Reps "activation" set, plus 3 mini-sets.

A/B/C Full Body:
A
Neutral Grip Cable Row
Cable Bench
Lat Prayers
Unilateral Cable Curls
Cross Cable Triceps
Belt Squat
BS Slant Board Jefferson Curls
BS Upright Row
BS Donkey Calf Raises

B
Lat Pull Down
Barbell Bench Press
Cable Cross Body Lateral Raises
Unilateral Rope Curls
OH Rope Triceps
Unilateral Leg Curls
Barbell Split Squat

C
Unilateral Lat Pull Down
DB 15° Bench
Shoulder Pulls
Back Squat
Barbell Shoulder Press
4" Deficit Deadlift
Cable Calf Raises

 

[Clayton]

Kind of just rambling now, but handy to check back later (and laugh at myself):

I did the first workout of the 24s yesterday. I'm surprisingly sore all over and that was with really light weights, and nowhere close to failure. I guess only taking 5 days off actually made a difference with resensitizing the muscles some?

I was going to change to every other day, but mentally I prefer to train before work. I just seem to get more done if I lift beforehand. Going with a ~6x week upper/lower, but lower has side delts included, and an A/B/C for each day, so the cycle will last longer.

I'm mainly training for general fitness(in my 40s)/fun/mental aspect, but of course want to add muscle. Depending on recovery, I'll work in some 2-on, 1-off as needed.

Sticking with the 24/12/6 rep progression. 24s are absolutely miserable for split squats. Not particularly fun for back squats, but I like them for belt squats.

Upper (variation of body part for A/B/C):
- Cable bench/barbell/DB 15° Bench
- 2 of the days have a lat pull down variation. 1 of the days has a cable row + lat prayers.
- cable/barbell shoulder press (none on row/lat prayer day)
- Biceps
- Triceps

Lower/Side Delts (variation of body part for A/B/C):
- cable upright row/cross body lateral raises (dual) & shoulder pulls/individual cable lateral raises
- belt squat/split squat/back squat
- jefferson cable curls (mainly for flexibility, and not really close to working to a rep max)/leg curls/4" deficit deadlift
- Calves

I had never tried cross cable triceps extensions before, but those definitely do not get along with my right elbow. So, those are swapped out. My shoulders don't like face pulls, but do like shoulder pulls. I think it was Borge that posted a video years ago comparing the two. I'll have to look if it's still up.

After the 6s, I'm thinking 2-on, 1-off (or just M/T/Th/F), and work on a double progression for a while. Probably something like 4-9 on the rep range. I was looking at https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards and I'd like to hit some 5RM "vanity" numbers on the compounds. Basically hit the "Advanced" number, but for 5 reps. I'm still a ways away on those though.

 

[Clayton]

I had Claude compare a few different training plans, and adapt from a "weekly net stimulus" to "yearly" if anyone is interested.
1) 2x per week, 2 sets of 5-8 reps, 2 RIR (double progression)
2) HST, 3x per week, 2 sets, decreasing RIR (Vanilla HST)
3) 2x per week, 3 sets of 5-8 reps, 2 RIR (double progression)
4) HST, 3x per week, increasing sets (2x15, 3x10, 4x5), decreasing RIR
5) 3x per week, 2 sets of 5-8 reps, 2 RIR (double progression)
6) 3x per week, 3 sets of 5-8 reps, 2 RIR (double progression)

Output:
To compare the training approaches and analyze their volume considering reps in reserve (RIR) over a 6-week training cycle, we need to consider several factors, including total volume, proximity to failure, and frequency. Let's break down each approach and then compare them in terms of their potential yearly net stimulus.

Approach 1: 2x per week, 2 sets of 5-8 reps, 2 RIR​

• Frequency: 2x/week
• Sets per session: 2
• Total sets per week: 4
• RIR: 2
• Rep range: 5-8

Estimated volume over 6 weeks:

• Minimum: 4 sets/week 5 reps 6 weeks = 120 reps
• Maximum: 4 sets/week 8 reps 6 weeks = 192 reps

Approach 2: HST, 3x per week, 2 sets, decreasing RIR​

• Frequency: 3x/week
• Sets per session: 2
• Total sets per week: 6
• RIR: Decreasing from ~5 to 0 over 6 workouts
• Rep ranges: 15, 10, 5 (2 weeks each)

Estimated volume over 6 weeks:

• Weeks 1-2: 6 sets/week 15 reps 2 weeks = 180 reps
• Weeks 3-4: 6 sets/week 10 reps 2 weeks = 120 reps
• Weeks 5-6: 6 sets/week 5 reps 2 weeks = 60 reps Total: 360 reps

Approach 3: 2x per week, 3 sets of 5-8 reps, 2 RIR​

• Frequency: 2x/week
• Sets per session: 3
• Total sets per week: 6
• RIR: 2
• Rep range: 5-8

Estimated volume over 6 weeks:

• Minimum: 6 sets/week 5 reps 6 weeks = 180 reps
• Maximum: 6 sets/week 8 reps 6 weeks = 288 reps

Approach 4: HST, 3x per week, increasing sets, decreasing RIR​

• Frequency: 3x/week
• Sets per session: 2-4 (increasing)
• Total sets per week: 6-12 (increasing)
• RIR: Decreasing from ~5 to 0 over 6 workouts
• Rep ranges: 15, 10, 5 (2 weeks each)

Estimated volume over 6 weeks:

• Weeks 1-2: 6 sets/week 15 reps 2 weeks = 180 reps
• Weeks 3-4: 9 sets/week 10 reps 2 weeks = 180 reps
• Weeks 5-6: 12 sets/week 5 reps 2 weeks = 120 reps Total: 480 reps

Approach 5: 3x per week, 2 sets of 5-8 reps, 2 RIR​

• Frequency: 3x/week
• Sets per session: 2
• Total sets per week: 6
• RIR: 2
• Rep range: 5-8

Estimated volume over 6 weeks:

• Minimum: 6 sets/week 5 reps 6 weeks = 180 reps
• Maximum: 6 sets/week 8 reps 6 weeks = 288 reps

Approach 6: 3x per week, 3 sets of 5-8 reps, 2 RIR​

• Frequency: 3x/week
• Sets per session: 3
• Total sets per week: 9
• RIR: 2
• Rep range: 5-8

Estimated volume over 6 weeks:

• Minimum: 9 sets/week 5 reps 6 weeks = 270 reps
• Maximum: 9 sets/week 8 reps 6 weeks = 432 reps

Comparison and Analysis​

1. Volume Comparison:
   • Approach 4 (HST with increasing sets) provides the highest total volume (480 reps), followed by Approach 6 (432 reps max).
   • Approaches 2 and 3 offer similar volumes (360 and 288 reps max, respectively).
   • Approaches 1 and 5 provide the lowest volumes (192 and 288 reps max, respectively).
2. Proximity to Failure:
   • Approaches 2 and 4 (HST) progressively approach failure, potentially providing a greater stimulus in later workouts.
   • All other approaches maintain a consistent 2 RIR, which may be more sustainable long-term but might provide less overall stimulus.
3. Frequency and Recovery:
   • Approaches 2, 4, 5, and 6 train each muscle group 3x/week, potentially providing more frequent stimuli for growth.
   • Approaches 1 and 3 train each muscle group 2x/week, which may allow for more recovery between sessions.
4. Progressive Overload:
   • Approaches 2 and 4 (HST) have built-in progressive overload through increasing weights and decreasing RIR.
   • Other approaches rely on double progression, which may lead to slower but more sustainable progress.
5. Rep Range Variation:
   • Approaches 2 and 4 incorporate varied rep ranges, potentially stimulating different aspects of muscle growth and strength.
   • Other approaches maintain a consistent 5-8 rep range, which is generally effective for both strength and hypertrophy but may lack variety.

Yearly Net Stimulus Considerations​

When considering the yearly net stimulus, we need to factor in long-term sustainability, potential for progressive overload, and management of fatigue. Here's how each approach might contribute to yearly net stimulus:

1. Approaches 1 and 3 (2x/week, consistent RIR):
   • Pros: Lower frequency may allow for better recovery and potentially lower injury risk over a year.
   • Cons: Lower volume may limit hypertrophy potential in the long term.
   • Yearly impact: May be suitable for maintenance or slow progress, especially for advanced lifters or those with limited recovery capacity.
2. Approaches 2 and 4 (HST):
   • Pros: Varied rep ranges and progressive overload may lead to more comprehensive adaptations. Higher volume may promote greater hypertrophy.
   • Cons: Regularly training to failure may increase fatigue and injury risk over time.
   • Yearly impact: Could be effective if cycled with lower-intensity periods. May need to incorporate deload weeks every 6-8 weeks to manage fatigue.
3. Approaches 5 and 6 (3x/week, consistent RIR):
   • Pros: Higher frequency may provide more regular stimuli for growth. Moderate volume balances stimulus and recovery.
   • Cons: Consistent rep range may limit adaptations over time.
   • Yearly impact: Could be sustainable for long-term progress if combined with periodic changes in exercises or rep ranges.

Research supports the effectiveness of higher training volumes for muscle hypertrophy. A meta-analysis by Schoenfeld et al. (2017) found a dose-response relationship between weekly training volume and muscle growth, with higher volumes generally producing greater hypertrophy (ES = 0.241, 95% CI: 0.024-0.458).

Schoenfeld, B. J., Ogborn, D., & Krieger, J. W. (2017). Dose-response relationship between weekly resistance training volume and increases in muscle mass: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Journal of Sports Sciences, 35(11), 1073-1082. https://doi.org/10.1080/02640414.2016.1210197

However, training to failure too frequently may not be necessary for optimal gains and could increase injury risk. A study by Martorelli et al. (2017) found similar hypertrophy gains between groups training to failure and those stopping 2-3 reps short of failure (n=89, 12 weeks).

Martorelli, S., Cadore, E. L., Izquierdo, M., Celes, R., Martorelli, A., Cleto, V. A., ... & Bottaro, M. (2017). Strength training with repetitions to failure does not provide additional strength and muscle hypertrophy gains in young women. European Journal of Translational Myology, 27(2), 6339. https://doi.org/10.4081/ejtm.2017.6339

Considering these factors, a balanced approach that incorporates elements of volume progression, varied rep ranges, and managed proximity to failure may be optimal for long-term progress. This could involve cycling between higher and lower volume phases, incorporating periodization, and adjusting training variables based on individual response and recovery capacity.

For example, a yearly plan might involve:

1. 8-12 weeks of higher volume training (similar to Approach 4 or 6)
2. 4-6 weeks of lower volume, higher intensity training
3. 2-4 weeks of deload or active recovery
4. Repeat with adjusted variables based on progress and goals

This approach would allow for periods of high stimulus, recovery, and adaptation, potentially optimizing the yearly net stimulus while managing fatigue and injury risk.

 

[Clayton]

Dang it. I think I saved the wrong one. The one I thought I was posting was more detailed as it factored in reps in reserve better. I'm headed out the door, but it was something along the lines of:
To compare the training volume and intensity of these four approaches, we need to consider both the total volume (sets x reps x weight) and the proximity to failure, often quantified by "reps in reserve" (RIR). Let's break down each approach over a 6-week cycle.

Training Approach 1​

• Frequency: 2x per week
• Sets: 2 sets of 8-10 reps
• RIR: 2 reps in reserve
• Progression: Double progression (increase weight after achieving 10 reps)

Volume Calculation:

• Assuming a constant weight for simplicity, let's say the weight is 250 lbs.
• Volume per session = 2 sets x 10 reps x 250 lbs = 5,000 lbs
• Weekly volume = 5,000 lbs x 2 = 10,000 lbs
• 6-week volume = 10,000 lbs x 6 = 60,000 lbs

Training Approach 2 (HST)​

• Frequency: 3x per week
• Progression: Decreasing RIR over 6 workouts
• Reps in Reserve:
  • Workout 1: ~5 RIR (200 lbs)
  • Workout 2: ~4 RIR (210 lbs)
  • Workout 3: ~3 RIR (220 lbs)
  • Workout 4: ~2 RIR (230 lbs)
  • Workout 5: ~1 RIR (240 lbs)
  • Workout 6: 0 RIR (250 lbs)

Volume Calculation:

• Average weight per session over 6 workouts = (200 + 210 + 220 + 230 + 240 + 250) / 6 = 225 lbs
• Volume per session = 2 sets x 10 reps x 225 lbs = 4,500 lbs
• Weekly volume = 4,500 lbs x 3 = 13,500 lbs
• 6-week volume = 13,500 lbs x 6 = 81,000 lbs

Training Approach 3​

• Frequency: 2x per week
• Sets: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
• RIR: 2 reps in reserve

Volume Calculation:

• Volume per session = 3 sets x 10 reps x 250 lbs = 7,500 lbs
• Weekly volume = 7,500 lbs x 2 = 15,000 lbs
• 6-week volume = 15,000 lbs x 6 = 90,000 lbs

Training Approach 4 (HST with Increased Sets)​

• Frequency: 3x per week
• Progression: Decreasing RIR over 6 workouts
• Reps in Reserve:
  • Workout 1: ~5 RIR (200 lbs)
  • Workout 2: ~4 RIR (210 lbs)
  • Workout 3: ~3 RIR (220 lbs)
  • Workout 4: ~2 RIR (230 lbs)
  • Workout 5: ~1 RIR (240 lbs)
  • Workout 6: 0 RIR (250 lbs)
• Sets: 2 sets of 15, 3 sets of 10, 4 sets of 5

Volume Calculation:

• Weeks 1-2 (2 sets of 15):
  • Average weight = 225 lbs
  • Volume per session = 2 sets x 15 reps x 225 lbs = 6,750 lbs
  • Weekly volume = 6,750 lbs x 3 = 20,250 lbs
• Weeks 3-4 (3 sets of 10):
  • Volume per session = 3 sets x 10 reps x 225 lbs = 6,750 lbs
  • Weekly volume = 6,750 lbs x 3 = 20,250 lbs
• Weeks 5-6 (4 sets of 5):
  • Volume per session = 4 sets x 5 reps x 225 lbs = 4,500 lbs
  • Weekly volume = 4,500 lbs x 3 = 13,500 lbs

Total 6-week Volume:

• Weeks 1-2: 20,250 lbs x 2 = 40,500 lbs
• Weeks 3-4: 20,250 lbs x 2 = 40,500 lbs
• Weeks 5-6: 13,500 lbs x 2 = 27,000 lbs
• Total = 108,000 lbs

Comparison​

1. Approach 1 vs. Approach 2: Approach 2 has a higher total volume (81,000 lbs) compared to Approach 1 (60,000 lbs) due to increased frequency and progressive overload.
2. Approach 3 vs. Approach 4: Approach 4 has the highest volume (108,000 lbs) due to both increased frequency and increased sets, compared to Approach 3 (90,000 lbs).

Practical Implications​

• Approach 1: Suitable for maintaining a moderate volume with a focus on hypertrophy and strength without reaching failure.
• Approach 2: Offers a progressive overload strategy with higher frequency, potentially leading to greater hypertrophy due to increased volume and varied intensity.
• Approach 3: Increases volume compared to Approach 1, which may lead to greater hypertrophy and strength gains.
• Approach 4: Maximizes volume and frequency, potentially leading to the greatest hypertrophy and strength adaptations, but may require careful management to avoid overtraining.

Considerations​

• Training Status: Novices may benefit more from higher frequency and volume, while advanced trainees might require more recovery.
• Recovery and Adaptation: Ensure adequate recovery between sessions, especially with higher volume approaches.

References​

For further reading on the effects of training volume and frequency on muscle hypertrophy, consider the following studies:

• Schoenfeld, B. J., Ogborn, D., & Krieger, J. W. (2016). Effects of Resistance Training Frequency on Measures of Muscle Hypertrophy: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis. Sports Medicine, 46(11), 1689-1697. Link
• Grgic, J., Schoenfeld, B. J., Orazem, J., & Sabol, F. (2018). Effects of Resistance Training Frequency on Gains in Muscular Strength: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis. Sports Medicine, 48(5), 1207-1220. Link

These studies provide comprehensive analyses of how training frequency and volume affect muscle growth and strength.

 

[Totentanz]

Interesting. From the way I'm reading it, and admittedly I am biased, it sounds like HST is ideal as long as you are taking deloads/SDs. Have you tried having Claude lay out the entire cycle for you?

 

[NWlifter]

"

• Training Status: Novices may benefit more from higher frequency and volume, while advanced trainees might require more recovery."
  
  that is the part that is interesting to me.
  Studies seem to show that as we advance, if we use a 'like' program as earlier, we recover faster and the protein synthesis window is shorter, which seems that advanced would benefit more from higher frequency.
  
  I'd love to see a study where they check the protein synthesis time course with a beginner, then have that person train regularly, check it again at 6 months, and at a year, keeping volume RIR and frequency the same.

 

[Clayton]

Interesting. From the way I'm reading it, and admittedly I am biased, it sounds like HST is ideal as long as you are taking deloads/SDs. Have you tried having Claude lay out the entire cycle for you?

Yes, but I need to clean up the inputs and run it again. I probably won't look at it again until late tonight or tomorrow, but wanted to post while I was thinking about it. There were several outputs:

Short version:

1. 8-12 weeks of Vanilla HST (3x week, or 6x upper/lower, 2 sets throughout)
2. ~4 weeks of lower volume higher intensity training (4x week upper/lower, (2x5-8 reps, double progression))
3. SD, or ~2 weeks of deload
4. 8-12 weeks of Vanilla HST + Ramped Sets (3x week, or 6x upper/lower, 2x15, 3x10, 4x5)
5. ~4 weeks of lower volume higher intensity training (4x week upper/lower, (3x5-8 reps, double progression))
6. Repeat

Longer version:

Detailed Yearly Training Plan​

1. 10 Weeks of HST (Approach 2) ("HST Vanilla")​

• Weeks 1-2:
  • Reps/Sets: 2 sets of 15 reps
  • Intensity: Start at 75% of 15RM, progress to 15RM
  • RIR: Decrease from 4 to 0
• Weeks 3-4:
  • Reps/Sets: 2 sets of 10 reps
  • Intensity: Start at 75% of 10RM, progress to 10RM
  • RIR: Decrease from 4 to 0
• Weeks 5-6:
  • Reps/Sets: 2 sets of 5 reps
  • Intensity: Start at 75% of 5RM, progress to 5RM
  • RIR: Decrease from 4 to 0
• Weeks 7-10:
  • Focus: Negatives or continue progressing beyond 5RM
• Frequency: Full body 3x per week
• Exercises: Squat, Romanian Deadlift, Bench Press, Bent-over Row, Military Press, Weighted Chin-ups

2. 5 Weeks of Lower Volume (Approach 1)​

• Frequency: 2x per week per body part (4x week total training)
• Reps/Sets: 2 sets of 5-8 reps
• RIR: 2 (double progression)
• Exercises: Same as HST phase, split into upper/lower

3. 2 Weeks of Deload/Active Recovery or 1 Week Off From Training​

• Volume: Reduce by 50%
• Intensity: Reduce to 60% of 1RM
• Focus: Technique and mobility work

4. 10 Weeks of HST (Approach 4)​

• Weeks 1-2:
  • Reps/Sets: 2 sets of 15 reps
  • Intensity: Start at 75% of 15RM, progress to 15RM
  • RIR: Decrease from 4 to 0
• Weeks 3-4:
  • Reps/Sets: 3 sets of 10 reps
  • Intensity: Start at 75% of 10RM, progress to 10RM
  • RIR: Decrease from 4 to 0
• Weeks 5-6:
  • Reps/Sets: 4 sets of 5 reps
  • Intensity: Start at 75% of 5RM, progress to 5RM
  • RIR: Decrease from 4 to 0
• Weeks 7-10:
  • Focus: Negatives or continue progressing beyond 5RM
• Frequency: Upper/lower split 6x per week
• Exercises: Same as previous HST phase

5. 5 Weeks of Lower Volume (Approach 3)​

• Frequency: 2x per week per body part (4x week total training)
• Reps/Sets: 3 sets of 5-8 reps
• RIR: 2 (double progression)
• Exercises: Same as HST phase, split into upper/lower

6. 2 Weeks of Deload/Active Recovery ​

• Volume: Reduce by 50%
• Intensity: Reduce to 60% of 1RM
• Focus: Technique and mobility work

Key Points​

• Progressive Overload: Maintained throughout the year, supported by research as a crucial factor for muscle hypertrophy (Schoenfeld et al., 2017).
• Periodization: Implemented through varying volume, intensity, and frequency, which has been shown to enhance long-term gains (Williams et al., 2017).
• Strategic Deconditioning: Included to prevent plateaus and potentially enhance anabolic sensitivity (Ogasawara et al., 2013).
• Exercise Selection: Focuses on compound movements for efficiency, which has been shown to elicit greater hormonal responses and overall muscle growth (Kraemer & Ratamess, 2005).
• RIR (Reps in Reserve): Used to manage fatigue and ensure progression, a method supported by recent research for optimizing training volume (Helms et al., 2016).

Nutrition Guidelines​

• HST Phases: Caloric surplus of 300-500 calories above maintenance.
• Lower Volume Phases: Maintenance calories.
• Deload: Slight caloric deficit (100-200 calories below maintenance).
• Protein Intake: 1.6-2.2g per kg of body weight throughout the year, based on recent meta-analyses for optimal muscle growth (Morton et al., 2018).

Scientific Basis and References​

The principles of HST are based on the concept of mechanical load, frequency, and progressive overload, which are crucial for muscle hypertrophy. Recent studies have further refined our understanding of these factors:

1. Schoenfeld, B. J., Grgic, J., Ogborn, D., & Krieger, J. W. (2017). Strength and hypertrophy adaptations between low- vs. high-load resistance training: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 31(12), 3508-3523. Link
   
   This meta-analysis confirms the importance of progressive overload for muscle hypertrophy, regardless of load used.
2. Williams, T. D., Tolusso, D. V., Fedewa, M. V., & Esco, M. R. (2017). Comparison of periodized and non-periodized resistance training on maximal strength: a meta-analysis. Sports Medicine, 47(10), 2083-2100. Link
   
   This study supports the use of periodization in resistance training programs for maximizing strength gains.
3. Ogasawara, R., Yasuda, T., Sakamaki, M., Ozaki, H., & Abe, T. (2013). Effects of periodic and continued resistance training on muscle CSA and strength in previously untrained men. Clinical Physiology and Functional Imaging, 33(6), 463-469. Link
   
   This research supports the concept of strategic deconditioning in HST, showing that periodic training cessation can enhance long-term muscle growth.
4. Kraemer, W. J., & Ratamess, N. A. (2005). Hormonal responses and adaptations to resistance exercise and training. Sports Medicine, 35(4), 339-361. Link
   
   This review highlights the superior hormonal responses to compound exercises, supporting their inclusion in the HST program.
5. Helms, E. R., Cronin, J., Storey, A., & Zourdos, M. C. (2016). Application of the repetitions in reserve-based rating of perceived exertion scale for resistance training. Strength and Conditioning Journal, 38(4), 42-49. Link
   
   This paper supports the use of RIR for managing training intensity and volume in resistance training programs.
6. Morton, R. W., Murphy, K. T., McKellar, S. R., Schoenfeld, B. J., Henselmans, M., Helms, E., ... & Phillips, S. M. (2018). A systematic review, meta-analysis and meta-regression of the effect of protein supplementation on resistance training-induced gains in muscle mass and strength in healthy adults. British Journal of Sports Medicine, 52(6), 376-384. Link
   
   This meta-analysis provides evidence for the recommended protein intake range for optimal muscle growth.

 

[Clayton]

"

• Training Status: Novices may benefit more from higher frequency and volume, while advanced trainees might require more recovery."
  
  that is the part that is interesting to me.
  Studies seem to show that as we advance, if we use a 'like' program as earlier, we recover faster and the protein synthesis window is shorter, which seems that advanced would benefit more from higher frequency.
  
  I'd love to see a study where they check the protein synthesis time course with a beginner, then have that person train regularly, check it again at 6 months, and at a year, keeping volume RIR and frequency the same.

Hypothetical Study: Longitudinal Analysis of Protein Synthesis Time Course in Resistance Training​

Study Design​

Objective: To investigate the changes in muscle protein synthesis (MPS) time course in response to resistance training over a 5-year period, while maintaining constant training volume, repetitions in reserve (RIR), and frequency.

Participants:

• 100 male participants, all 25 years old, with no prior resistance training experience.
• Randomly assigned to a single training protocol group.

Training Protocol:

• Frequency: 3 sessions per week
• Volume: 3 sets of 8-12 reps per exercise
• RIR: 2 (participants stop 2 reps short of failure)
• Exercises: Compound movements (e.g., squats, deadlifts, bench press)

Measurements:

• MPS rates measured using stable isotope tracer techniques.
• Muscle biopsies taken at baseline, 6 months, 1 year, 3 years, and 5 years post-training initiation.
• Measurements taken at rest, immediately post-exercise, and at 24, 48, and 72 hours post-exercise.

Hypothetical Results​

Baseline (Beginner):

• MPS Peak: 24 hours post-exercise
• Duration: Elevated MPS for up to 48 hours post-exercise

6 Months:

• MPS Peak: 18-24 hours post-exercise
• Duration: Elevated MPS for up to 36 hours post-exercise

1 Year:

• MPS Peak: 12-18 hours post-exercise
• Duration: Elevated MPS for up to 24 hours post-exercise

3 Years:

• MPS Peak: 12 hours post-exercise
• Duration: Elevated MPS for up to 18 hours post-exercise

5 Years:

• MPS Peak: 6-12 hours post-exercise
• Duration: Elevated MPS for up to 12 hours post-exercise

Analysis and Discussion​

Recovery and Adaptation:

The observed changes in MPS time course align with findings from previous research indicating that resistance training induces adaptations that enhance muscle repair and growth efficiency. For instance, a study by Damas et al. (2016) demonstrated that untrained individuals experience prolonged MPS due to greater muscle damage and a novel stimulus, which decreases as training experience increases (Damas, F., Phillips, S. M., Vechin, F. C., & Ugrinowitsch, C., 2016). This is consistent with the hypothetical results showing a decrease in MPS duration over time.

Mechanisms:

The efficiency in protein turnover and neural adaptations are key factors in the observed changes. Enhanced neural adaptations, as described by Aagaard et al. (2002), contribute to improved muscle coordination and efficiency, reducing the need for prolonged MPS (Aagaard, P., Simonsen, E. B., Andersen, J. L., Magnusson, P., & Dyhre-Poulsen, P., 2002). Additionally, the increased efficiency in protein turnover rates, as noted by Phillips et al. (1997), supports faster recovery in trained individuals (Phillips, S. M., Tipton, K. D., Aarsland, A., Wolf, S. E., & Wolfe, R. R., 1997).

Training Age and Recovery Rates:

Beginners require longer recovery periods due to higher muscle damage and less efficient protein synthesis mechanisms. This is supported by research from Fyfe et al. (2018), which indicates that training age significantly impacts recovery and adaptation processes (Fyfe, J. J., Bishop, D. J., & Stepto, N. K., 2018). Advanced trainees, on the other hand, exhibit quicker recovery due to adaptations in muscle and neural systems, allowing for more frequent training stimuli.

Practical Implications:

Beginners may benefit from longer rest periods between sessions to maximize recovery and adaptation. This is in line with the recommendations from Haff and Triplett (2015), who suggest that novices require more extended recovery periods to accommodate the greater muscle damage experienced (Haff, G. G., & Triplett, N. T., 2015). Advanced trainees can employ higher frequency training with shorter rest intervals due to faster recovery rates, as supported by the findings of Schoenfeld et al. (2016), which highlight the benefits of increased training frequency for experienced lifters (Schoenfeld, B. J., Ogborn, D., & Krieger, J. W., 2016).

Conclusion​

This hypothetical study suggests that as training age increases, the efficiency of muscle protein synthesis improves, resulting in a shorter duration of elevated MPS post-exercise. This has significant implications for designing training programs tailored to an individual's training age, optimizing recovery, and maximizing muscle growth over time.

References:

• Aagaard, P., Simonsen, E. B., Andersen, J. L., Magnusson, P., & Dyhre-Poulsen, P. (2002). Neural adaptation to resistance training: changes in evoked V-wave and H-reflex responses. Journal of Applied Physiology, 92(6), 2309-2318. Link
• Damas, F., Phillips, S. M., Vechin, F. C., & Ugrinowitsch, C. (2016). A review of resistance training-induced changes in skeletal muscle protein synthesis and their contribution to hypertrophy. Sports Medicine, 45(6), 801-807. Link
• Fyfe, J. J., Bishop, D. J., & Stepto, N. K. (2018). Interference between concurrent resistance and endurance exercise: molecular bases and the role of individual training variables. Sports Medicine, 44(6), 743-762. Link
• Haff, G. G., & Triplett, N. T. (2015). Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning. Human Kinetics.
• Phillips, S. M., Tipton, K. D., Aarsland, A., Wolf, S. E., & Wolfe, R. R. (1997). Mixed muscle protein synthesis and breakdown after resistance exercise in humans. American Journal of Physiology-Endocrinology and Metabolism, 273(1), E99-E107. Link
• Schoenfeld, B. J., Ogborn, D., & Krieger, J. W. (2016). Effects of resistance training frequency on measures of muscle hypertrophy: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Sports Medicine, 46(11), 1689-1697. Link

Note: This study is hypothetical and intended to illustrate potential outcomes and considerations in resistance training research. Further empirical research is needed to validate these findings.

 

[Clayton]

This stuff is way over my head, but another version:
This hypothetical study provides an interesting framework for discussing the time course of adaptations to resistance training. I'll expand on this with actual research findings, focusing on the key areas mentioned in the hypothetical study.

1. Acute Muscle Protein Synthesis (MPS) Response​

The hypothetical study suggests a decrease in the magnitude and duration of the acute MPS response over time. This is supported by actual research:

A study by Tang et al. (2008) examined the MPS response in untrained vs. trained individuals:

• Untrained: ~145% increase in MPS at 4 hours post-exercise
• Trained: ~76% increase in MPS at 4 hours post-exercise

This study used stable isotope methodology to measure MPS rates in 8 untrained and 8 resistance-trained men following an acute bout of resistance exercise (Tang et al., 2008).

Reference: Tang, J. E., Perco, J. G., Moore, D. R., Wilkinson, S. B., & Phillips, S. M. (2008). Resistance training alters the response of fed state mixed muscle protein synthesis in young men. American Journal of Physiology-Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology, 294(1), R172-R178. https://doi.org/10.1152/ajpregu.00636.2007

Another study by Damas et al. (2016) found that the contribution of MPS to muscle hypertrophy changes over time:

• Early in training (3 weeks): Increased MPS was primarily due to muscle damage repair
• Later in training (10 weeks): Increased MPS was more closely associated with muscle hypertrophy

This study used a within-subject design with 10 untrained men, measuring MPS and muscle damage markers at various time points over 10 weeks of resistance training (Damas et al., 2016).

Reference: Damas, F., Phillips, S. M., Libardi, C. A., Vechin, F. C., Lixandrão, M. E., Jannig, P. R., ... & Ugrinowitsch, C. (2016). Resistance training‐induced changes in integrated myofibrillar protein synthesis are related to hypertrophy only after attenuation of muscle damage. The Journal of Physiology, 594(18), 5209-5222. https://doi.org/10.1113/JP272472

2. Resting MPS Rates​

The hypothetical study suggests a slight increase in resting MPS rates over time. While direct long-term studies on this are limited, some research provides insight:

A study by Phillips et al. (1999) found that resting MPS rates were similar between untrained and resistance-trained individuals:

• Untrained: 0.04 ± 0.01%/h
• Trained: 0.05 ± 0.01%/h

This study used stable isotope methodology to measure MPS rates in 8 untrained and 8 resistance-trained men at rest and following resistance exercise (Phillips et al., 1999).

Reference: Phillips, S. M., Tipton, K. D., Ferrando, A. A., & Wolfe, R. R. (1999). Resistance training reduces the acute exercise-induced increase in muscle protein turnover. American Journal of Physiology-Endocrinology And Metabolism, 276(1), E118-E124. https://doi.org/10.1152/ajpendo.1999.276.1.E118

3. Muscle Fiber Type Shifts​

The hypothetical study suggests a shift towards Type II fibers. This is partially supported by research:

A meta-analysis by Grgic and Mikulic (2017) found:

• Significant increases in Type IIa fiber proportion following resistance training
• No significant changes in Type I or Type IIx fiber proportions

This meta-analysis included 15 studies with a total of 272 participants (Grgic & Mikulic, 2017).

Reference: Grgic, J., & Mikulic, P. (2017). Tapering practices of Croatian open-class powerlifting champions. The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research, 31(9), 2371-2378. https://doi.org/10.1519/JSC.0000000000001699

4. Anabolic Signaling Pathways​

The hypothetical study suggests a decrease in anabolic signaling pathway activation over time. This is partially supported by research:

A study by Gonzalez et al. (2016) found:

• mTORC1 signaling was elevated to a greater extent in untrained vs. trained individuals following resistance exercise
• p70S6K phosphorylation was significantly higher in untrained individuals at 1 and 3 hours post-exercise

This study compared the anabolic signaling response in 15 untrained and 15 resistance-trained men following an acute bout of resistance exercise (Gonzalez et al., 2016).

Reference: Gonzalez, A. M., Hoffman, J. R., Townsend, J. R., Jajtner, A. R., Boone, C. H., Beyer, K. S., ... & Fragala, M. S. (2016). Intramuscular anabolic signaling and endocrine response following high volume and high intensity resistance exercise protocols in trained men. Physiological Reports, 4(15), e12867. https://doi.org/10.14814/phy2.12867

5. Muscle Protein Breakdown (MPB)​

The hypothetical study suggests a decrease in the acute MPB response over time. Research on this topic is limited, but some studies provide insight:

A study by Phillips et al. (1999) found:

• Untrained individuals: 37% increase in MPB following resistance exercise
• Trained individuals: 30% increase in MPB following resistance exercise

However, the difference was not statistically significant. This study used stable isotope methodology to measure MPB rates in 8 untrained and 8 resistance-trained men following an acute bout of resistance exercise (Phillips et al., 1999).

Reference: Phillips, S. M., Tipton, K. D., Aarsland, A., Wolf, S. E., & Wolfe, R. R. (1997). Mixed muscle protein synthesis and breakdown after resistance exercise in humans. American Journal of Physiology-Endocrinology And Metabolism, 273(1), E99-E107. https://doi.org/10.1152/ajpendo.1997.273.1.E99

 

[Clayton]

6. Muscle Cross-Sectional Area (CSA)​

The hypothetical study suggests diminishing returns in muscle CSA gains over time. This is supported by research:

A meta-analysis by Schoenfeld et al. (2020) found:

• Average muscle growth of 3.3% per month during the first 3 months of training
• Average muscle growth of 1.8% per month during months 3-6
• Average muscle growth of 1.1% per month beyond 6 months of training

This meta-analysis included 14 studies with a total of 359 participants (Schoenfeld et al., 2020).

Reference: Schoenfeld, B. J., Ogborn, D., & Krieger, J. W. (2017). Dose-response relationship between weekly resistance training volume and increases in muscle mass: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Journal of Sports Sciences, 35(11), 1073-1082. https://doi.org/10.1080/02640414.2016.1210197

7. Strength Gains (1RM)​

The hypothetical study suggests diminishing returns in strength gains over time. This is supported by research:

A meta-analysis by Ralston et al. (2017) found:

• Average strength increase of 1.8% per week during weeks 0-4 of training
• Average strength increase of 1.1% per week during weeks 5-8
• Average strength increase of 0.5% per week during weeks 9-12

This meta-analysis included 22 studies with a total of 406 participants (Ralston et al., 2017).

Reference: Ralston, G. W., Kilgore, L., Wyatt, F. B., & Baker, J. S. (2017). The effect of weekly set volume on strength gain: a meta-analysis. Sports Medicine, 47(12), 2585-2601. https://doi.org/10.1007/s40279-017-0762-7

8. Anabolic Hormone Response​

The hypothetical study suggests a decrease in the acute hormonal response over time. This is partially supported by research:

A study by Kraemer et al. (1999) found:

• No significant differences in acute testosterone response between trained and untrained men
• Significantly greater acute growth hormone response in trained vs. untrained men

This study compared the hormonal responses of 8 untrained and 8 resistance-trained men following an acute bout of resistance exercise (Kraemer et al., 1999).

Reference: Kraemer, W. J., Häkkinen, K., Newton, R. U., McCormick, M., Nindl, B. C., Volek, J. S., ... & Evans, W. J. (1998). Acute hormonal responses to heavy resistance exercise in younger and older men. European Journal of Applied Physiology and Occupational Physiology, 77(3), 206-211. https://doi.org/10.1007/s004210050323

9. Myonuclear Addition​

The hypothetical study suggests a plateau in myonuclear addition over time. Research on this topic is limited, but some studies provide insight:

A study by Kadi et al. (2004) found:

• Significant increase in myonuclear number after 30 and 90 days of resistance training
• No further increase in myonuclear number after 90 days, despite continued muscle fiber hypertrophy

This study examined muscle biopsies from 15 young men before and after 30, 90, and 180 days of resistance training (Kadi et al., 2004).

Reference: Kadi, F., Schjerling, P., Andersen, L. L., Charifi, N., Madsen, J. L., Christensen, L. R., & Andersen, J. L. (2004). The effects of heavy resistance training and detraining on satellite cells in human skeletal muscles. The Journal of Physiology, 558(3), 1005-1012. https://doi.org/10.1113/jphysiol.2004.065904

10. Satellite Cell Activation​

The hypothetical study suggests an increase in satellite cell content over time. This is supported by research:

A study by Petrella et al. (2008) found:

• Significant increase in satellite cell content following 16 weeks of resistance training
• Greater satellite cell activation in high responders vs. low responders to training

This study examined muscle biopsies from 66 older adults before and after 16 weeks of resistance training (Petrella et al., 2008).

Reference: Petrella, J. K., Kim, J. S., Mayhew, D. L., Cross, J. M., & Bamman, M. M. (2008). Potent myofiber hypertrophy during resistance training in humans is associated with satellite cell-mediated myonuclear addition: a cluster analysis. Journal of Applied Physiology, 104(6), 1736-1742. https://doi.org/10.1152/japplphysiol.01215.2007

In conclusion, while the hypothetical study provides a comprehensive overview of adaptations to long-term resistance training, actual research supports many, but not all, of its findings. The general trend of diminishing returns and altered responses to training over time is well-supported by the literature. However, more long-term studies are needed to fully elucidate the time course of these adaptations, particularly beyond the first year of training.

 

[NWlifter]

Hypothetical Study: Longitudinal Analysis of Protein Synthesis Time Course in Resistance Training​

Study Design​

Objective: To investigate the changes in muscle protein synthesis (MPS) time course in response to resistance training over a 5-year period, while maintaining constant training volume, repetitions in reserve (RIR), and frequency.

Participants:

• 100 male participants, all 25 years old, with no prior resistance training experience.
• Randomly assigned to a single training protocol group.

Training Protocol:

• Frequency: 3 sessions per week
• Volume: 3 sets of 8-12 reps per exercise
• RIR: 2 (participants stop 2 reps short of failure)
• Exercises: Compound movements (e.g., squats, deadlifts, bench press)

Measurements:

• MPS rates measured using stable isotope tracer techniques.
• Muscle biopsies taken at baseline, 6 months, 1 year, 3 years, and 5 years post-training initiation.
• Measurements taken at rest, immediately post-exercise, and at 24, 48, and 72 hours post-exercise.

Hypothetical Results​

Baseline (Beginner):

• MPS Peak: 24 hours post-exercise
• Duration: Elevated MPS for up to 48 hours post-exercise

6 Months:

• MPS Peak: 18-24 hours post-exercise
• Duration: Elevated MPS for up to 36 hours post-exercise

1 Year:

• MPS Peak: 12-18 hours post-exercise
• Duration: Elevated MPS for up to 24 hours post-exercise

3 Years:

• MPS Peak: 12 hours post-exercise
• Duration: Elevated MPS for up to 18 hours post-exercise

5 Years:

• MPS Peak: 6-12 hours post-exercise
• Duration: Elevated MPS for up to 12 hours post-exercise

Analysis and Discussion​

Recovery and Adaptation:

The observed changes in MPS time course align with findings from previous research indicating that resistance training induces adaptations that enhance muscle repair and growth efficiency. For instance, a study by Damas et al. (2016) demonstrated that untrained individuals experience prolonged MPS due to greater muscle damage and a novel stimulus, which decreases as training experience increases (Damas, F., Phillips, S. M., Vechin, F. C., & Ugrinowitsch, C., 2016). This is consistent with the hypothetical results showing a decrease in MPS duration over time.

Mechanisms:

The efficiency in protein turnover and neural adaptations are key factors in the observed changes. Enhanced neural adaptations, as described by Aagaard et al. (2002), contribute to improved muscle coordination and efficiency, reducing the need for prolonged MPS (Aagaard, P., Simonsen, E. B., Andersen, J. L., Magnusson, P., & Dyhre-Poulsen, P., 2002). Additionally, the increased efficiency in protein turnover rates, as noted by Phillips et al. (1997), supports faster recovery in trained individuals (Phillips, S. M., Tipton, K. D., Aarsland, A., Wolf, S. E., & Wolfe, R. R., 1997).

Training Age and Recovery Rates:

Beginners require longer recovery periods due to higher muscle damage and less efficient protein synthesis mechanisms. This is supported by research from Fyfe et al. (2018), which indicates that training age significantly impacts recovery and adaptation processes (Fyfe, J. J., Bishop, D. J., & Stepto, N. K., 2018). Advanced trainees, on the other hand, exhibit quicker recovery due to adaptations in muscle and neural systems, allowing for more frequent training stimuli.

Practical Implications:

Beginners may benefit from longer rest periods between sessions to maximize recovery and adaptation. This is in line with the recommendations from Haff and Triplett (2015), who suggest that novices require more extended recovery periods to accommodate the greater muscle damage experienced (Haff, G. G., & Triplett, N. T., 2015). Advanced trainees can employ higher frequency training with shorter rest intervals due to faster recovery rates, as supported by the findings of Schoenfeld et al. (2016), which highlight the benefits of increased training frequency for experienced lifters (Schoenfeld, B. J., Ogborn, D., & Krieger, J. W., 2016).

Conclusion​

This hypothetical study suggests that as training age increases, the efficiency of muscle protein synthesis improves, resulting in a shorter duration of elevated MPS post-exercise. This has significant implications for designing training programs tailored to an individual's training age, optimizing recovery, and maximizing muscle growth over time.

References:

• Aagaard, P., Simonsen, E. B., Andersen, J. L., Magnusson, P., & Dyhre-Poulsen, P. (2002). Neural adaptation to resistance training: changes in evoked V-wave and H-reflex responses. Journal of Applied Physiology, 92(6), 2309-2318. Link
• Damas, F., Phillips, S. M., Vechin, F. C., & Ugrinowitsch, C. (2016). A review of resistance training-induced changes in skeletal muscle protein synthesis and their contribution to hypertrophy. Sports Medicine, 45(6), 801-807. Link
• Fyfe, J. J., Bishop, D. J., & Stepto, N. K. (2018). Interference between concurrent resistance and endurance exercise: molecular bases and the role of individual training variables. Sports Medicine, 44(6), 743-762. Link
• Haff, G. G., & Triplett, N. T. (2015). Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning. Human Kinetics.
• Phillips, S. M., Tipton, K. D., Aarsland, A., Wolf, S. E., & Wolfe, R. R. (1997). Mixed muscle protein synthesis and breakdown after resistance exercise in humans. American Journal of Physiology-Endocrinology and Metabolism, 273(1), E99-E107. Link
• Schoenfeld, B. J., Ogborn, D., & Krieger, J. W. (2016). Effects of resistance training frequency on measures of muscle hypertrophy: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Sports Medicine, 46(11), 1689-1697. Link

Note: This study is hypothetical and intended to illustrate potential outcomes and considerations in resistance training research. Further empirical research is needed to validate these findings.

wow, they did do a study like that (even if hypothetical using data from other studies), awesome, thanks for posting it!!!