Confusion

grunt11 said:
If the only way to gain strength was to work over your max then people, especially power lifters, would prioritize forced reps. However, you almost never see power lifters doing forced reps because as long as you can keep progressing the load your maxes will increase even if you don’t work over them.

Perfect example is that I hadn’t done a max Bench Press in over a month working submaximal only. Yet last week I effortlessly increased my max 1RM by 15 lbs. and could have done reps with it.
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So if I can curl 75lbs 5 times, the concept is that I can still grow by doing 55lbs five times? I just feel like it is soooo easy, I won't even break a sweat.
 
If you are just starting HST and want to stick with the most basic vanilla approach then 1x15, 2x10 3x5 is probably the best option. If you feel that the 15s are just not doing anything for you then you can drop them and start with the 10s or cut them back to 1 week doing only 3 sessions. While many people can grow or gain strength doing the 15s they are IMO more of a form of active recovery designed to help allow your connective tissues to keep up with your muscle/strength growth. However, ignore them at your own risk. I did and now have tendonitis preventing me from doing weighted Chin Ups or heavy BB Curls right now.

I personally don’t do traditional “sets and reps” anymore. I’ve come to the same conclusion as Totentanz based on my own research and experience that the key is hitting a number of target reps for each muscle group. For most people using “sets” to keep the reps organized makes things simple and also allows for the building of “cookie cutter” routines that will work for everyone but are not likely optimal for anyone.

This means that I gave up on the concept of 15s, 10s, and 5s and just start each cycle at somewhere between 70-80% of my 1RM depending on the exercise shooting for somewhere between 40-60 working reps per muscle group each time their worked.

However, since this is your first run at HST keep it simple and as you progress through your cycle keep reading the forum. Then apply what you are experiencing to what others already have and you can better design a program that best fits your specific needs.
 
grunt11 said:
If you are just starting HST and want to stick with the most basic vanilla approach then 1x15, 2x10 3x5 is probably the best option. If you feel that the 15s are just not doing anything for you then you can drop them and start with the 10s or cut them back to 1 week doing only 3 sessions. While many people can grow or gain strength doing the 15s they are IMO more of a form of active recovery designed to help allow your connective tissues to keep up with your muscle/strength growth. However, ignore them at your own risk. I did and now have tendonitis preventing me from doing weighted Chin Ups or heavy BB Curls right now.

I personally don’t do traditional “sets and reps” anymore. I’ve come to the same conclusion as Totentanz based on my own research and experience that the key is hitting a number of target reps for each muscle group. For most people using “sets” to keep the reps organized makes things simple and also allows for the building of “cookie cutter” routines that will work for everyone but are not likely optimal for anyone.

This means that I gave up on the concept of 15s, 10s, and 5s and just start each cycle at somewhere between 70-80% of my 1RM depending on the exercise shooting for somewhere between 40-60 working reps per muscle group each time their worked.

However, since this is your first run at HST keep it simple and as you progress through your cycle keep reading the forum. Then apply what you are experiencing to what others already have and you can better design a program that best fits your specific needs.
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I am starting HST tomorrow (I already know my maxes) for the first time but have been training for about two years now. What do you recommend I do? I am young and haven't had any injuries. My goal is the most size over the next 8 weeks. Also, how do you do the 40-60 reps per muscle group in HST when HST has you doing 1 x 15, 2 x 10, etc. That is no where near 40-60 reps?

I'm open to recommendations here....
 
I am starting HST tomorrow (I already know my maxes) for the first time but have been training for about two years now. What do you recommend I do? I am young and haven't had any injuries. My goal is the most size over the next 8 weeks.
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I recommend that you slow down and not worry about gaining as much as you can in 8 weeks. Building muscle is a marathon not a sprint and you would do well to approach it that way or you will end up injured.

More specifically, since you’re ready to start I recommend that you skip the 15s and start right out with the 10s assuming you haven’t had a long layoff (longer than a normal SD). You can either stick with 2 weeks of 10s, 5s and negs coming to 6 weeks. If you want to fill up 8 weeks then I would extend the 10s by doing each increment twice.

Also, how do you do the 40-60 reps per muscle group in HST when HST has you doing 1 x 15, 2 x 10, etc. That is no where near 40-60 reps?
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Like I said in my post I don’t do 15s, 10s or 5s. Nothing in the HST principles require that. I hit my target reps using straight sets, clustering, Myo-reps and Max-stim reps depending on the exercise, also taking into account overlap between exercises.
 
grunt11 said:
I recommend that you slow down and not worry about gaining as much as you can in 8 weeks. Building muscle is a marathon not a sprint and you would do well to approach it that way or you will end up injured.

More specifically, since you’re ready to start I recommend that you skip the 15s and start right out with the 10s assuming you haven’t had a long layoff (longer than a normal SD). You can either stick with 2 weeks of 10s, 5s and negs coming to 6 weeks. If you want to fill up 8 weeks then I would extend the 10s by doing each increment twice.


Like I said in my post I don’t do 15s, 10s or 5s. Nothing in the HST principles require that. I hit my target reps using straight sets, clustering, Myo-reps and Max-stim reps depending on the exercise, also taking into account overlap between exercises.
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To do Negs, don't I need a partner that can lift the weight? I don't have that right now. So you suggest, for example, 50lbs, 50lbs, 60lbs, 60lbs, 70lbs, 70lbs, etc. etc. jumping right into 10 reps x 2 sets?
 
Yes jump right into the 10s and do each weight twice like your example. If you can’t do negatives then you could also double up on the 5s or switch over to doing 3s (something like 5 sets of 3 reps) for two weeks. If you do 3s don’t worry about finding your maxes either just keep progressing the weight from your 5RM or deload about 5% and start incrementing again from there. try to keep your rep count at 15 if you can to generate enough Time Under Tension to promote growth.
 
grunt11 said:
Yes jump right into the 10s and do each weight twice like your example. If you can’t do negatives then you could also double up on the 5s or switch over to doing 3s (something like 5 sets of 3 reps) for two weeks. If you do 3s don’t worry about finding your maxes either just keep progressing the weight from your 5RM or deload about 5% and start incrementing again from there. try to keep your rep count at 15 if you can to generate enough Time Under Tension to promote growth.
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When you say deload 5%, you mean if my max is 100lbs, drop to 95lbs, then do 100, then hopefully 105? How can I "generate" Time Under Tension? Are you just suggesting that I vary my tempo to keep the weight moving for longer?
 
Yes drop your weight about 5% maybe even 10% if your 5RM was tough. If working near the 3 rep range 15 reps will give you enough TUT, I doubt at that weight you will have much choice about rep speed.
 
JUST DOITiwasgonnaaddaderrogatorytermforhomosexualsherebutwasntsureifthatwasagainstforumrulesornotandidntwanttogetbanneditwasntmeantasabashjustagymbrothingiliketosay.
 
grunt11 said:
Yes jump right into the 10s and do each weight twice like your example. If you can’t do negatives then you could also double up on the 5s or switch over to doing 3s (something like 5 sets of 3 reps) for two weeks. If you do 3s don’t worry about finding your maxes either just keep progressing the weight from your 5RM or deload about 5% and start incrementing again from there. try to keep your rep count at 15 if you can to generate enough Time Under Tension to promote growth.
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Thank you for all of your help.... Maybe you can help critique my workout?

http://thinkmuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?41173-Please-critique-my-workout
 
hah2110 said:
Exactly that. If it is my current max, how am I going to gain strength to exceed it if I never work over it? Green Lantern said that at the end, I would be lifting more than when I started. How is that possible?
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The program is all about progressive load. Case in point.. I started about 4 cycles ago (32 weeks or so), I bench dumbbells, my 5 rep max on dumbbell bench was 125lbs. At the end of the last cycle, it is now 135lbs. I am deconditioning for 12 days, and at the end of this cycle I hope to push 140lbs for 5 reps. This goes for all my big lifts, squats, deads, press, dips, pull ups... all my maxes are going up over time.

So you see... your maxes will eventually go up as you get stronger working the program.<O:p
 
Totentanz said:
During 15s, doing flat bench - rep goal is between 30 and 50 reps. John Doe does his warmups then gets ready to do his working set, which is using 185 lbs. He gets set up and begins, doing 17 reps his first shot - I always have them stop 1-2 reps away from failure. You can tell when they are getting close to failure because the bar slows down quite a bit. So anyway, he racks the bar, I have him take 15 deep breaths - usually this is 30-45 seconds - then once he is ready, he begins again. This time he gets 10 reps before he stops - rests for another 15 deep breaths then starts again - gets 6 more reps. I have him stop and I note it like this: 185 lbs x 17, 10, 6
I only ever have them do it in three separate attempts.

This might be something you might like to try out. You do get through your sets a lot faster than you would using conventional sets. I will warn you though that during the 5s, you will definitely need longer than 30-45 seconds between attempts. I let them do 20-25 deep breaths during the 5s instead of 15 deep breaths. Yes, this keeps them closer to failure than using standard sets x reps.

Why not keep volume constant? Well I ask instead, why keep volume constant? There isn't a lot of reason to keep volume constant. We are trying to continually add weight to the bar and become stronger over time. It is very difficult to keep adding weight to the bar if you are obsessed with keeping the total number of reps the same. Besides which, as your load goes up, so does the workload, so even if you drop volume your workload is still going up.
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I really like the sound of this.
Shifts emphasis on the workload rather than the number of sets per rep.
 
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