Does Hypertrophy require much excess calories?

[b said:
Quote[/b] (da1andonlychacha @ Jan. 02 2005,2:30)]Just to interject a few things here.
1. Meal Frequency
OK, I don't think it matters that much for hypertrophy, but it does for general health. It is true that large, infrequent meals put a strain on your pancreas and could lead to type II diabetes. I'm not saying you have to have 6 evenly spaced macronutrient proportioned meals every day, just don't do anything that seems really stupid.
Theres no real eveidence that large infrequent meals will actually reduce health, but htey can increase some risk factors (cholestetol etc but usually in a short period post prandial, which starts getting untidy in the reseach, as with large meals, ilial brake tends to slow things down and make it awkward) and most definately there is not evidence of infrequent meals causing pancreas strain (which is more indicative of obesity than meals per se) or causing diabetes.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
2. Macronutrient Profile
Aaron, I'm not sure I'm getting what you're saying here. Are you implying that it doesn't matter how we get our calories, they will still partition the same way? Maybe I misinterpreted, but I can't see that one 70% carb diet, one 70% fat diet, and one 70% protein will all partition lean mass/fat in the same ratio in a caloric excess. *confusion*
Outside of essential nutrients, then it makes little difference.
Comparing three diets, all adequate in protein, but the remainder of energy from carbs, protein or fat (one each) there will potentially be a short term (2-3 week) difference, then the results afterwards is pretty much the same, when matched for calories. Eating a diet 100% protien is impossible and impractical for the most part so its not really applicable in that sense.

Free living individuals will tend to eat less on a high protein diet than a low protien diet (cuasing fat loss, not due to the protien, but due to the lowering of energy) which is why isonitrogenous low fat and high fat diets produce no difference in weight loss.
How a diet is actually set up is more applicable to what energy you need (keto tends to suck most of energy), satiety, health, bowel function etc... so a mixture of energy sources are generally required, especially fruits veges and some nice fats.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (BoSox @ Jan. 01 2005,11:49)]PS. There is such thing as the glycemic index, just so you know. And your diet does cause your metabolism to change, just so you know.
oh really
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thanks for showing me the truth bosox
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i appriciate
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i am suprised for i thought u were not capable of knowing even those...
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Jan. 01 2005,11:53)]Bodyfat is not effected by meal frequency, GI or changing macronutrient profile (outside of achieving protein balance).
GI, meal frequency do have a role in overall health profile, satiety amongst others, but however, not bodyfat accural/depletion
you can believe in magic, santa claus and all the rest
then prove it my friend!
and i wonder why the others do not say ANY comment about this subject
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dkm, vicious etc.
and i cant believe him to be entitled as HST EXPERT?!!!!
the writings of him ARE NOT ANY CLOSE (of knowledge) to the writings of the REAL experts...
 
Grow up. You are bickering like a little girl.

Aaron's a man, talk to him like one. And btw, he is very smart, trust me on this. He'll gladly prove things in a nice informative manner, but i would expect you to do the same.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (salihyz @ Jan. 03 2005,8:30)]then prove it my friend!
and i wonder why the others do not say ANY comment about this subject
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dkm, vicious etc.
and i cant believe him to be entitled as HST EXPERT?!!!!
the writings of him ARE NOT ANY CLOSE (of knowledge) to the writings of the REAL experts...
your funny
 
okay, scientific proof...
while most of them would be articles, some of them are also SCİENTİFİC studies...meal frequencymeal frequencymeal frequencyinsulinmeal frequencymeal frequency
so please show us a scientific study, an article whatever u find to prove that meal frequency is irrevelent for fat loss and hypertrophy... i am not a scientist but i am intelligent enough to comprehend the effects of increasing the meal frequency as it has an unnegligible benefit for our cause!!!!
 
it is really disgusting to try to convince someone like them for such a simple fact!!
i think both dkm and vicious are cautious for not to hurt their friend here... else they would have writen the truth here and end the discussion...
also if i am wrong in this subject i swear i will quit writing here FOREVER....
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (salihyz @ Jan. 03 2005,10:35)]also if i am wrong in this subject i swear i will quit writing here FOREVER....

Metabolism. 1995 Feb;44(2):218-23.

'Meal frequency influences circulating hormone levels but not lipogenesis rates in humans.' Jones PJ, Namchuk GL, Pederson RA.

Division of Human Nutrition, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada.

To determine whether human lipogenesis is influenced by the frequency of meal consumption, 12 subjects were divided into two groups and fed isocaloric nutritionally adequate liquid diets over 3 days, either as three larger diurnal (n = 6) or as six small, evenly spaced (n = 6) meals per day. On day 2 (08
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0 h) of each diet period, 0.7 g deuterium (D) oxide/kg body water was administered and blood was collected every 4 hours over 48 hours for measurement of plasma insulin and glucose-dependent insulinotropic polypeptide (GIP) levels. At each time point, the incorporation of D into plasma triglyceride fatty acid (TG-FA) was also determined by isotope ratio mass spectrometry after TG-FA extraction and combustion/reduction. Insulin and GIP levels were elevated over daytime periods in subjects fed three versus six meals per day. Contribution of de novo synthesis to total TG-FA production was not significantly different for days 2 and 3 in subjects consuming three (6.56% +/- 1.32% and 6.64% +/- 2.08%, respectively) and six (7.67% +/- 2.29% and 7.88% +/- 1.46%, respectively) meals per day. Net TG-FA synthesis rates over days 2 and 3 were 1.47 +/- 0.33 and 1.55 +/- 0.53 g/d, respectively, for subjects fed three meals per day, and 1.64 +/- 0.47 and 1.69 +/- 0.30 g/d for subjects fed six meals per day. These findings suggest that consuming fewer but larger daily meals is not accompanied by increases in TG-FA synthesis, despite the observation of hormonal peaks.



Guess we'll be seein ya then!

EDIT - Please note, this is a study, unlike every single one of those links you provided.
 
lipogenesis is not our subject here...
fewer meals brings too much insulin, and too much insulin drops your blood sugar levels too fast that because your muscles cant handle that much glycose in the given time fat storage becomes inevitable, simple as this...
have u heard of ramadan? a worship of muslims... that they eat twice a day only.. do they lost weight? lose fat? quite the contrary even they eat less they gain weight buy this type of diet in one month mostly fat!! i am an muslim and every year i experience this! the more i eat in more frequencies the better my fitness level is.. not a study but a reality of life u see!! So then try this twice a day or even once a day diet and see the fact rather then telling me irrevelent studies
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (salihyz @ Jan. 03 2005,10:27)]...so please show us a scientific study...

...see the fact rather then telling me irrevelent studies...
Hmm, youre starting to annoy me now.

[b said:
Quote[/b] (salihyz @ Jan. 03 2005,10:27)]lipogenesis is not our subject here...

fewer meals...drops your blood sugar levels too fast [and] fat storage becomes inevitable, simple as this...
Haha, I take that back. Youre just amusing me!
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Not concerned with lipogenesis but youre going on about fat gain!? Do you even know what lipogenesis is?

To be honest, I have better things to do than get caught up in internet arguments with idiots
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (salihyz @ Jan. 03 2005,5:35)]also if i am wrong in this subject i swear i will quit writing here FOREVER....
There'd be no reason to quit writing here if you're wrong. If you're wrong, you learn something, and we move on.

I've been wrong about A LOT of things now that i've come here and learned so much. But i never put up such a fight and made such a big deal out of things.
 
Dan, we're begging you. I think he's trying to single-handedly bring HST down. Sal, is your real name Vince?
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Wow, Aaron, I can't believe my high school bio teachers were so way off
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o well, i guess i can quit worrying about diabetes now. And I'm glad this whole thing came up, b/c trying to eat every 2-3 hours is a pain. Now I can spend more time actually getting the calories.

Salihyz, I'm not trying to insult you AT ALL, but is english your second language? And hey, like Lance said, if you're wrong: learn, grow, and keep writing.

Bo, Pauly, come on guys. At worst the guy is misinformed, not sinister. Be nice to him and give him some time to come around.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (salihyz @ Jan. 03 2005,7:48)]...
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]fewer meals brings too much insulin, and too much insulin drops your blood sugar levels too fast that because your muscles cant handle that much glycose in the given time fat storage becomes inevitable, simple as this

Pity that insulin has absolutely nothing to do with the overall picture of storage patterns. Calories are by far the king. In fact a rapid insulin spike followed by a rapid drop could get someone back into the FFA utilization mode quickly.





[b said:
Quote[/b] ]i experience this! the more i eat in more frequencies the better my fitness level is.. not a study but a reality of life u see!! So then try this twice a day or even once a day diet and see the fact rather then telling me irrevelent studies

Anecdotal posts= worthless. n=1 is worthless.
It is akin to saying I got ripped on biscuits and gravy, prove me wrong.
 
"THİS BOARD CROWDS WİTH PUREST IDIOTS I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE!!!"

I feel honored to be crowded with such esteemed people! Nothing I hate more than to be lumped together with a bunch of UNPURE idiots!

:) :D
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (salihyz @ Jan. 03 2005,11:27)]okay, scientific proof...
while most of them would be articles, some of them are also SCİENTİFİC studies...meal frequencymeal frequencymeal frequencyinsulinmeal frequencymeal frequency
wow, a pile of retarded bbing articles. The funny thing is a lot of the comments in the articles are teh same comments continually used "I Think" " its a good bet" hahahahha
btw, the references used in some of them are entertaining....
Some go through the same old tired pattern of isulin = storage hormone, so keeping insulin lower = less storage... which isnt actually correct (and a low GI, or frequent meal diet will keep insulin raised all day (peaks lower, but raised longer) so...) and also go into the more meals = more thermogeneiss.. but that aint hte way the body works :) DIT = 10-15% TEE no matter howmany meals eaten..
a lot of them seem to struggle with the term "net" fat gain, but thats probably too difficult for them considering how challanged some are, i mean, I thought 1980's weider died with the 1990's
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]so please show us a scientific study, an article whatever u find to prove that meal frequency is irrevelent for fat loss and hypertrophy... i am not a scientist but i am intelligent enough to comprehend the effects of increasing the meal frequency as it has an unnegligible benefit for our cause!!!!
whats the point, this has been done time and time again here, adn other reputable forums
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]also if i am wrong in this subject i swear i will quit writing here FOREVER....
well, are you going to?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]lipogenesis is not our subject here...
So the process of fat storage has no importance here?
hahahahah
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Salihyz, I'm not trying to insult you AT ALL, but is english your second language?
I would hope so :confused:

Salihyz, the funny thing is I think most of us have been in this situation before, thinking these little things make all the difference in the world, because it made sense and has been repeated within the bodybuilding circles for years. However, with the advent of science within the bodybuilding paradigm, people are starting to get actual knowledge of what works outside of the local gym hero who got massive with handfuls of grits..
 
I think Aaron has been most helpful so if anyone wants to still pick his brain, then keep the name calling out of it.
 
Aaron's just another one of the "purest idiots I have ever seen in my life," why would we listen to him
 
@Aaron

So are you saying, it is as good to just eat 2 times a day compared to 5 times?

Or are you just saying it isn't proven scientificly, that 5 meals a day are the way to go.

I mean it would make the day a lot more easy to eat 2 big meals and maybe a little breakfast and post-workout.
You got some experience with 2 meals a day?

Greets
Tom
 
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