ECA stacks useful?

Discussion in 'Anything and Everything about dietary supplements' started by Andy741, Sep 16, 2002.

  1. Andy741

    Andy741 New Member

    Hi,

    I was wondering if anyone's used an ECA (ephedrine caffeine, aspirin) stack with their HST workouts? How do you cycle it and when do you use it? Does it make any difference? pros and cons? Maybe Bryan has written about this supplement before?
     
  2. virtualcyber

    virtualcyber New Member

    It is useful in the beginning, as body will adapt to it.

    One thing I don't like about it is that it makes you lose water initially. This gives the illusion that you are losing more fat than you actually are.
     
  3. job561

    job561 New Member

    I personally prefer a NYC stack to ECA (Norephedrine, Yohimbine, Caffeine), but they both accomplish the same thing. I don't use them so much to aid in fat loss, as they tend to only cause me to lose water weight vice lose any actual fat.

    I basically use these stacks for two reasons:

    1) 30 minutes before a workout, to allow more muscle contractile strength, and

    2) During the day, if I just want to feel more "sharp" and "focused".

    One added benefit that i have found is that these stimulants also aid in bowel movements ... a very good thing if you are eating lot's of protein!

    Job561
     
  4. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    ECA is a good stack for fat loss. Ephedrine seems to help you maintain muscle while losing fat by acting as a nutrient partioning agent. It also stimulates the nervous system and can cause the shakes at first. Caffiene also stimulates the nervous sytem and has a thermogenic effect. The aspirin could probably be cut out because it has not been proven to play a big role in fat loss. It also thins the blood a bit which I don't feel is a good idea whn your heart rate in accelerated from the E/C. After continued use, your CNS adapts to the E/C and the shakes and energy boost dissipate a bit, but that does not mean the thermogenic effect has stopped. I do not take it too close to my workout when doing 15's b/c the last thing I want is already accelerated heart rate before I start.
     
  5. Just wanted to add to BIZ' good reply.

    To take it one step further, some research shows that EC will actually increase in effectiveness after a 6-8 week period, and will continue to work between 6 and 12 months of use IF you actually need to use it that long, which is long after the CNS side effects wear off.



    d.
     
  6. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    I do not know if you guys remember when they first got real hyped over the effects of ECA stacks, but the study involved sedentary fat people and they were able to lose weight and bodyfat and not muscle with no change in physical activity, just from taking ECA. I think ECA is good for someone who has a long way to go with fat loss and for those who are already lean who want to drop a little more fat. I do not buy any pre-made ECA supps. I take one mini-thin, which is actual ephedrine (not herbal), and one caffeine pill. The mini-thin is about 40 mg of ephedrine and the caffeine is 200 mg, which is the amount I believe was used in the study I mentioned.
     
  7. s7e

    s7e New Member

    Nice info as always BIZ. Thanks

    Oh, btw...How much does it roughly cost if you put it together yourself?
     
  8. Andy741

    Andy741 New Member

    Thanks for the info. Where can you get the mini-thins? I like the idea of the shake symptoms wearing off, but keeping the thermogenic effects. About how long does that take?

    One day my dad came home and he was full of energy, he had some energy drink and I looked at the ingredients and it had ephidrine and caffeine in it. I just thought that was funny, because he usually tries to avoid caffeine.


    I have a lot of fat to lose, about a 46 waist right now [​IMG] , my longtime goal is to be around 29, smallest I've been is 33.

    Biz, do you take it every day? or is there a way you should take it? If I took something sedating like tylenol pm or a sleeping pill, would it negate the thermogenic effects? Basically, I have a condition that gets exascerbated with stimulants, so I'm not sure if I should go this route.
     
  9. Andy741

    Andy741 New Member

    just read this article by Bryan:

    http://www.musclemonthly.com/article....ork.htm

    I didn't realize you could take so much. Here's a quote from the article:

    In order to get the most benefit from ephedrine on muscle loss, adjust your dosing schedule to every 2 hours. This will enhance the duration and consistency of beta-adrenergic activity. Be sure to adjust the amount you take each time in order to maintain the total amount taken over the course of a day. For example, instead of taking 20 mg ephedrine and 200 mg caffeine 3 times daily, take 10 mg ephedrine and 100 mg caffeine 6 times daily.
     
  10. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    </span>
    <span =''>
    I buy the mini-thins at the convenient store down the street from my work. They do not sell them to minors and you can only buy one at a time, but it only costs about $9 for a 100 tablets. Each tablet has 25 mg Ephedrine. I buy Equate Caffeine tabs at Wal-Mart for about $3 and you get 30 tabs I think and they have 200 mg caffeine. So you are looking at paying at the most $15 dollars, way less than fat burners on the market and you get the real deal.
    </span>
    <span =''>
    The shakes start to subside after about a week in my experience. Some people can be hyper-sensitive to the stimulants, so it may vary. If you drink a lot of coffee (or Mt. Dew), the shakes may not even be noticeable. Check a convenience store and ask for them. Usually behind the counter locked in a case.
    [/QUOTE]Biz, do you take it every day? or is there a way you should take it? If I took something sedating like tylenol pm or a sleeping pill, would it negate the thermogenic effects? Basically, I have a condition that gets exascerbated with stimulants, so I'm not sure if I should go this route.</span>
    <span =''>I didn't realize you could take so much. Here's a quote from the article:

    In order to get the most benefit from ephedrine on muscle loss, adjust your dosing schedule to every 2 hours. This will enhance the duration and consistency of beta-adrenergic activity. Be sure to adjust the amount you take each time in order to maintain the total amount taken over the course of a day. For example, instead of taking 20 mg ephedrine and 200 mg caffeine 3 times daily, take 10 mg ephedrine and 100 mg caffeine 6 times daily.
     
  11. s7e

    s7e New Member

    Good info as always BIZ, thanks.
     
  12. Andy741

    Andy741 New Member

    Thanks for the reply Biz, do you know what products out there have the same effect, but is ephidrine free? Is that Norephedrine, Yohimbine, Caffeine stack something to consider along those lines?
     
  13. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    </span>
    <span =''>
    Xenadrine has an Ephedra fee product. Not sure if you can even find a fat loss catalyst with actual ephedrine anymore. The NYC stack is a good alternative and has had some positive testimonials from people who use it. Norephedrine is supposed to have much less of a stimulant effect as ephedrine, so may be a good choice for you. With the NYC stack, the caffeine is the only stimulant to worry about really, but if you can drink coffee or Mt. Dew, then you can handle a caffeine tab.
     
  14. Andy741

    Andy741 New Member

    Thanks Biz. You're pretty smart about all this :)

    Is the norephedrine still a nutrient partioning agent?
     
  15. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    Norephedrine retains many of the properties of it's counterpart ephedrine being it is an alkaloid of the latter. It does retain the muscle sparing effects in lab studies, so it is a good alternative. Some people use it in conjunction with a regular ECA stack, but I would advise against this in your case. I know a little about this topic from personal experience mainly and research of available material for a term paper in Nutrition and Exercise a few years ago.
     
  16. Andy741

    Andy741 New Member

    What if I just took norephedrine by itself without anything else? It seems like the results would be diminished since there's a synergistic thing when you use caffeine. Is there a limit to how much norephedrine you can use in a day?
     
  17. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    Dosage recommendations for norephedrine are consistent with ephedrine. Of course ephedrine will have more of a metabolic effect than it's derivative, and both are much more thermogenic when combined with caffeine, but you can still benefit some by taking them alone as well.
     
  18. marc999

    marc999 New Member

    i know there useful, just dont want to start another topic.

    i take a ephedrine supp 2x a day, its 400mg (6% extract, something like that). everybody says that it has a &quot;short life&quot; so to speak, then why would taking my last cap around 16.30 keep me up all night (untill 05.30 [​IMG] ) i am taking my first one at 08.30. when would be the best time to take the second.

    i still want to sleep [​IMG] well.
     

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