[b said:Quote[/b] ]What Causes Muscle Growth?
...Muscle is in fact a biological system, and it grows (or atrophies) in direct proportion to the amount of work it is forced to do.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]EDT
I love Charles so don't take anything I say as a criticism about his person.
He is incorrect. "Work" does have something to do with hypertrophy, but only as far as peak tension (not intensity or effort) achieved and the duration of that tension (not to be confused with sets with less weight due to fatigue).
You are pushing the limits of your strength-endurance by trying to increase the number of reps with a fixed load within a given amount of time. The %1RM relative to your level of conditioning at the time will dertermine how effective those sets will be for growth.
Once the muscle adapts to using (lifting & lowering) your 12 RM, you will stop growing. However, if you continue to stress its metabolic/oxidative capacity, it should increase its ability to resist fatigue with the 12RM load. In other words, once you have stopped growing, you might continue to get better at lifting your 12Rm while exhausted as long as you make lifting your 12RM more exhausting over time by reducing the rest periods.
So the method will work as long as you can continue to increase the weight.
I notice that Bryan suggested that "peak tension" and the "duration of that tension" have something to do with hypertropphy. But the product of those two variables is, in essense, the "mechanical work" performed. Defined this way, mechanical work does have something to do with hypertrophy. On the other hand, when work is defined as "perceived effort" or "level of fatigue," that's the kind of work that doesn't have to do with hypertrophy.[b said:Quote[/b] (savagebeast @ Oct. 27 2005,4:36)]I don't know what site you're referring to, but T-Nation has a free article on EDT by Charles Staley - Escalating Density Training.
(from the article)That's not true, at least not in the sense that he means it. Muscle grows in response to progressive tension overload. At this point, I could go on and explain why I don't think EDT is a very good program for building muscle...[b said:Quote[/b] ]What Causes Muscle Growth?
...Muscle is in fact a biological system, and it grows (or atrophies) in direct proportion to the amount of work it is forced to do.
But I won't. Instead, I'll just quote Bryan:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin....13;t=10
[b said:Quote[/b] ]EDT
I love Charles so don't take anything I say as a criticism about his person.
He is incorrect. "Work" does have something to do with hypertrophy, but only as far as peak tension (not intensity or effort) achieved and the duration of that tension (not to be confused with sets with less weight due to fatigue).
You are pushing the limits of your strength-endurance by trying to increase the number of reps with a fixed load within a given amount of time. The %1RM relative to your level of conditioning at the time will dertermine how effective those sets will be for growth.
Once the muscle adapts to using (lifting & lowering) your 12 RM, you will stop growing. However, if you continue to stress its metabolic/oxidative capacity, it should increase its ability to resist fatigue with the 12RM load. In other words, once you have stopped growing, you might continue to get better at lifting your 12Rm while exhausted as long as you make lifting your 12RM more exhausting over time by reducing the rest periods.
So the method will work as long as you can continue to increase the weight.
I had a nice reply all typed out, but Firefox crashed and I lost it. Oh well, here's the gist of it.[b said:Quote[/b] (navigator @ Oct. 28 2005,8:04)]I notice that Bryan suggested that "peak tension" and the "duration of that tension" have something to do with hypertropphy. But the product of those two variables is, in essense, the "mechanical work" performed. Defined this way, mechanical work does have something to do with hypertrophy. On the other hand, when work is defined as "perceived effort" or "level of fatigue," that's the kind of work that doesn't have to do with hypertrophy.[b said:Quote[/b] (savagebeast @ Oct. 27 2005,4:36)]I don't know what site you're referring to, but T-Nation has a free article on EDT by Charles Staley - Escalating Density Training.
(from the article)That's not true, at least not in the sense that he means it. Muscle grows in response to progressive tension overload. At this point, I could go on and explain why I don't think EDT is a very good program for building muscle...[b said:Quote[/b] ]What Causes Muscle Growth?
...Muscle is in fact a biological system, and it grows (or atrophies) in direct proportion to the amount of work it is forced to do.
But I won't. Instead, I'll just quote Bryan:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin....13;t=10
[b said:Quote[/b] ]EDT
I love Charles so don't take anything I say as a criticism about his person.
He is incorrect. "Work" does have something to do with hypertrophy, but only as far as peak tension (not intensity or effort) achieved and the duration of that tension (not to be confused with sets with less weight due to fatigue).
You are pushing the limits of your strength-endurance by trying to increase the number of reps with a fixed load within a given amount of time. The %1RM relative to your level of conditioning at the time will dertermine how effective those sets will be for growth.
Once the muscle adapts to using (lifting & lowering) your 12 RM, you will stop growing. However, if you continue to stress its metabolic/oxidative capacity, it should increase its ability to resist fatigue with the 12RM load. In other words, once you have stopped growing, you might continue to get better at lifting your 12Rm while exhausted as long as you make lifting your 12RM more exhausting over time by reducing the rest periods.
So the method will work as long as you can continue to increase the weight.
As far as I can tell by reading Staley's free articles, he's suggesting that mechanical work has to do with hypertrophy. But he's also approaching things from a strength-perspective, not a hypertrophy-specific perspective.
After completing my last HST cycle, I jumped right into a simple EDT cycle. It's been just about 4 weeks, now, and I have gained a similar amount of muscle that I usually gain during the 5s. The biggest difference that I've noticed is that I get huge pumps during the workouts and I have way more energy during my non-training days. I've also noticed that my joints don't ache so much training this way, and my strength has gone up, too. Soon I will switch to a 3x3 type protocol to shoot for some PRs. Is this more effective for muscle growth? As yet, I don't know. But there are other worthy objectives besides big muscles ... like stregth.
Jack, I hope this little bit of info helps you out.
Cheers.
and[b said:Quote[/b] ]...whatever system allows you to do the most work per unit of time is what causes muscle to grow in an optimal manner.
In other words, you're just creating a little more fatigue each time you train. This would be beneficial for increasing fitness. However, when it comes to gaining size or strength (which really aren't all that different for a natural trainee), fatigue takes a back seat to progressive tension overload. Have you ever heard of a powerlifting routine which says to take your 10-12 RM and try to increase the amount of reps you can do with it in 20 minutes each time you train? I haven't.[b said:Quote[/b] ](with EDT) Each time you repeat the workout; your objective is to simply perform more total repetitions in the same time frame.
Staley's got this backwards--in a strength or size program, increasing the load should be the first priority and increasing volume should be secondary. Which is why I'd say that EDT isn't ideal for increasing either size or strength.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Apply the 20/5 rule: as soon as you can increase the total number of reps by 20% or more, start the next workout withy 5% more weight and start over.
Hmmm ... I thought we were talking about whether Staley's statement that progressive work leads to muscle growth is within the known "science of muscle growth."[b said:Quote[/b] (jvroig @ Oct. 29 2005,6:49)]But that's exactly what I meant, so I see you must have misunderstood my post. Training "routines" themselves are really unimportant. What's important is they follow the science of muscle growth. If they do, then they work no matter what they are called, even if they are named "Anti-HSTroutine". If they don't follow the science of muscle growth that is only too common knowledge these days (or should be, anyway) then they don't work, even if they are called "HST 2.0" or "Turbo HST" or whatever gimmick.
I've recently decided that my routine needed to be overhauled. In doing my homework, I came across a number of programs that looked interesting. Among those were Max OT, Westside, EDT and HST (I've decided on HST and plan to start tomorrow). Before reaching my decision, a personal trainer I know leant me his copy of the EDT DVD. Let me first say, the DVD is a waste of money. Actually, at $20 it would be a waste of money, at $80 it's a flat out rip-off. There's absolutely zero information on the DVD that isn't readily available in articles published on various web sites.[b said:Quote[/b] (jack32 @ Oct. 27 2005,11:05)]hi guys,
charles staley's EDT program sounds intriguing.
has anyone taken the time to test run EDT?
what are the pros and cons of EDT vs. HST's more frequent bodypart hits?
any and all feedback would be most appreciated!
thanks!!
jack