fat loss supplements

Discussion in 'Anything and Everything about dietary supplements' started by willie838, Apr 9, 2002.

  1. willie838

    willie838 New Member

    i'm pluggin away at cardio, but seriously only the wall of fat on my midsection is holding me back from looking extremely cut. I was wondering if any of you guys have used any of the fat loss stuff out there, xenadrine, hydroxycut etc, and if you had good experiences with them- loss of muscle, any other problems? some guys at the gym swear by them, but when i ask how much the weight they lost was muscle andw ater, they have no response....just wonderin. :confused:
     
  2. Garratt

    Garratt New Member

    Green tea, works good for me... 5 cups a day!
     
  3. Lars

    Lars New Member

    ECA stacks works - if used sensibly with a good diet. They help spare some muscle, surpress hunger and give you extra energy in the gym. The caffeine will also release ffa's into your bloodstream.

    Both ephedrine and caffeine are dehydrating, so a lot of water weight can be lost if you're not careful.
     
  4. RainierWolfcastle

    RainierWolfcastle New Member

    Why does green tea help ? Any particular type of green tea ?
     
  5. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    Green tea inhibits the enzyme that breaks down norepinephrine (nor-adrenaline) in teh synaptic cleft (c0mt if memory serves me right, all my infos back at my office). The caffeine in it (probbly not enough) stimulates release of nor-epi (small) and also inhibits the enzyme that breaks down cAMP in the cell (name just shot straight outta my head, bolloxs)
    It works, but by itself it doesnt do a lot.
    But combined with E and C it would be good, much like the improvement of adding caffeine to ephedrine. (well at least in vitro work in rat tissue shows this)
     
  6. Steve McDermott

    Steve McDermott New Member

    Hi Willie,  Bryan wrote a great article on E/C use here

    E/C article

    It's very informative.

    Steve
     
  7. willie838

    willie838 New Member

    thanks a lot steve.....great article...guess i'll give a shot once i get some cash in hand...i hate being a college student who's true love is motorcycles followed closely by bodybuilding hehe...i love my f'n bike so much...so my cash has to go into repairing that first, then gettin my body closer to where i want to be. :confused:
     
  8. RainierWolfcastle

    RainierWolfcastle New Member

    What is green tea like with C, but no E. I live in australia and E is hard to buy over here.

    Rainier.
     
  9. RainierWolfcastle

    RainierWolfcastle New Member

    Or what about:
    * Green Tea; +
    * Caffeine; +
    * L-Tyrosene; +
    * Vitamin B6
     
  10. Lars

    Lars New Member

    Just get some pseudo-ephedrine (Sudafed). It won't stimulate your CNS, but it will make you a bit more active and alert. Besides, pseudo-ephedrine is what you get most places in the world anyway when you buy ECA stacks.

    My excuse is: "I do a lot of scuba diving, and I have problems equalizing the pressure in my ears. Sudafed is the only thing that helps me keep the passage between my inner ear and throat open". So they sell me one box (the one with only pseudo-ephedrine, not the other ones with headache med). Then I go to another pharmacy in another chain and repeat. That gives me enough for one months use :eek:)
     
  11. Jon Stark

    Jon Stark New Member

    CLA might also be something worth trying out.  There's some evidence it works (i.e. preserves lean mass and reduces fat), and Bryan's frequently recommended it.

    I'd guess it's most beneficial during hypocaloric periods, to promote fat loss rather than muscle loss.

    Until HSN comes out with something, Proteinfactory.com actually sells it for $65/pound.  The product is a powder that's about 50% CLA.  So one pound would last about 75 days if you are using 3g per day.  I think this is cheaper than capsules.

    Thinking about trying it myself.

    Proteinfactory's CLA Page
     
  12. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    Green tea plus caffeine will work better than green tea on its own, as the amount of caffeine in the tea is too low to have a decent effect on the phosphodiesterase ezyme.
    I think the caffeine dosages that are normal are ~200mg+ depending on bodysize.
    It cant hurt to try, I am in NZ, and thanks to the aussie way they have made it next to impossible to get ephedrine in NZ. I love the stuff, just to difficult, and thanks to sept11 it made it harder to sneak it thru
     
  13. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    Green tea has compounds that block COMT (as mentioned above by Aaron_F). I stopped using as much green tea when I found that they were anti-androgenic. They not only block androgen at the receptor, thay also apear to down regulate androgen receptors.

    Green tea is absically an anti-endocrine factor. It seems to reduce the effects of all steroid hormones [​IMG]
     
  14. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    I havent read anything on the downregulation of adrenoreceptors, have you any idea of the amount that would be required to cause a clinical effect?

    Just did a quick pubmed search and there isnt a lot of good information, a little on a5 reductase inhibition, but not a lot on anything else.
     
  15. Steve McDermott

    Steve McDermott New Member

    Oh man, you have to be kidding.  I love green tea, and drink it pretty much every day.  I would say around 5 cups or so.  What do you consider a "safe" amount as far as androgen receptor effects?

    Steve
     
  16. Jon Stark

    Jon Stark New Member

    Holy crap!  Usually when I use ECA I combine it with green tea capsules.  I guess that wasn't the best strategy.

    Bryan, what about oolong tea?  I remember seeing some evidence that it was a potent fat fighter too.  Is it a suitable alternative to green tea, or is it also anti-androgenic?

    Example: http://www.healthwell.com/delicio....path=hw

    I know nothing about tea. Could be basically the same stuff for all I know.
     
  17. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    I didn't mean to freak anybody out, it's just that the flavones (especially epigallocatechin gallate) are well known to reduce the actions of endogenous androgens (and estrogens) as well as even lowering testosterone levels themselves.

    Anyway, my point is that, you may never see any significant effect of drinking green tea on muscle gains. Then again, we know that it is having an antagonistic effect, however small, in a direction oposite to what we want with respect to testosterone.

    Cultures that consume a lot of green tea of also known to have fewer androgenic "manifestations" both normal (body hair, muscle mass, etc) as well as fewer pathologic manifestations (prostate problems, and other cancers associated with steroid hormones).

    Fat is a different story. It clearly helps fat loss by altering catecholamine metabolism and probably a few other things.
     
  18. =w=

    =w= New Member

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bryan Haycock @ April 30 2002,5:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I didn't mean to freak anybody out, it's just that the flavones (especially epigallocatechin gallate) are well known to reduce the actions of endogenous androgens (and estrogens) as well as even lowering testosterone levels themselves.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Could this also be why some experience increased fat loss with green tea? By reducing estrogenic fat deposits if one were prone to high estrogen levels?
     
  19. john

    john New Member

    HI Willie
    In answer to your question as others have already said the E C A stack really works well however you can feel very wired using it sort of like being on speed---- not to good if you drive a lot or use industrial machinery in your job.Next strongest supplement i have used is Thermbuterol by Alternative Pharmacuticals great product very strong can feel wired using it though.I am now using a mixture of Happy Pills and HydroxyCut i get both products from http://www.undergroundsports.com I spend approx 2500 dollars a year on supplements and buy them all from this company great prices and quick service-----and i live in England.this company is based in Rochester N H USA.I hope this info is of some help,
    best whishes JOHN
     
  20. Bob Evans

    Bob Evans Member

    First,
    I would like to thank Bryan for all the money he is saving me now that I don’t have to buy Green Tea, or Glutamine. I would like your guy’s (and hopfully Herr Haycock's) option on some other “gear”. Am I wasting my money? Here goes:

    1) Arginine (6 grams/day) (the powder tastes like dog farts)

    2) Lysine (4 grams / day)

    3) Ribose (2grams / day)

    4) Potassium Bicarbonate (2 teaspoons mix with 1 Gal water sipped thru-out the day)

    Please comment on the amounts.

    Some times I feel like a walking chemistry experiment, but something is working, so I am wary of changing my regiment. Yea, I try to eat right, take protein, vitamins and Creatine -- but that part is not controversial.

    Thanks for the input,
    Bob
    ;)
     

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