Form check

H

HstRiggins

New Member
Hey guys, i did this tonight and need some ideas on my form. After watching it, i think it's pretty good. Sorry about the video position, but it was hard to get my camera anywhere and keep it there.

The squat is only 165 lbs so it's nowhere near my max. I'll try to tape my heavy day as well. The deadlift is 240 lbs, and it's about 45 lbs from my pr.

I've never taped it before and haven't had anyone give me advice about any of my lifts. I just read starting strength about 10 times through and I still find new things in it everytime i read it.

squat/deadlift
 
The angle makes it difficult to see well what is going on, but squats are well above parallel, and it looks like you are bouncing off your knees and pushing them forward at the bottom.

On deads your *** is coming up first making it more of a stiff legged deadlift. Your lower back might be rounding a bit because of this. Seems you may be a little to vertical---are your scapulas over the bar, or are your arms straight?
 
thanks, i see the deadlifts thing now. My *** does come up first. Hope it's not too lote to fix all this. The squats do look a little above parallel, but i don't know how to get any lower. It took me this long to get that low, any lower and i can't help round out my back. Or at least it feels like i'm rounding it out. Honestly before i watched that video it felt like i was going down to the floor, i guesss not. I'll try to find a different spot to position the camera next time.
 
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(nipponbiki @ Jul. 18 2008,4:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The angle makes it difficult to see well what is going on, but squats are well above parallel, and it looks like you are bouncing off your knees and pushing them forward at the bottom.

On deads your *** is coming up first making it more of a stiff legged deadlift. Your lower back might be rounding a bit because of this. Seems you may be a little to vertical---are your scapulas over the bar, or are your arms straight?</div>
I think I may have the same problem with my deads as well. Riggins, thank you for posting the video. Nippon, thank you for the analysis.
 
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(nipponbiki @ Jul. 18 2008,5:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">On deads your *** is coming up first making it more of a stiff legged deadlift. Your lower back might be rounding a bit because of this. Seems you may be a little to vertical---are your scapulas over the bar, or are your arms straight?</div>
I also do that. I noticed it feels wrong but at the same time it is kind of what I naturally do if I don't focus on it. Not only you put too much emphasis on the lower back but the weight feels heavier.
 
push your hips back. feel the hamstrings stretch when you squat (practice this by pooping in the woods). I also think you should widen your stance.

- just my opinion

Lol told me to try the superman stretch (lay on your belly, arms out straight, raise your chest &amp; quads off the ground simultaneously - this is your back's arch/position during squatting). it's good advice.
 
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(fearfactory @ Jul. 18 2008,6:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Lol told me to try the superman stretch (lay on your belly, arms out straight, raise your chest &amp; quads off the ground simultaneously - this is your back's arch/position during squatting). it's good advice.</div>
Yup, my squats were killing me -- not my legs, but nearly everything else! Lol's Superman stretch helped me to maintain the proper position of my upper body. It helps. A lot.
 
thanks for the feedback guys. I have done the superman stretch after reading the SS book. I feel like i'm sticking out my chest and have good back position, I guess i'm just missing something with the hip thing. Maybe i'm trying to keep my back a bit too vertical. After watching Rippetoes squatting on youtube i see that he doesn't look to go down any lower then me, but it looks like his upper body leans forward a bit. I'm not flexible enough to get down where my butt almost touches the floor. When i try to go any lower i feel like i'll fall over even without any weight on. Although i think i do go lower when I use heavier weight. It pushes me down more.

I'll keep working on it and post some more videos next week.
 
Colby,

The major reason why deads are a back exercise is because of the function of the back to maintain the back angle as the legs break the bar off the floor. Then of course they become actively involved in lifting the bar after it has cleared the knees. This is crucial to performing a proper deadlift and avoiding injury.

Yeah, the blocks of wood are highly recommended. I finally got some myself, but have not used them yet. How long will it take for my dam foot to heal?
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Riggs,

Only just taken a look at your vid. Boy, does that camera angle make it easy to see what's going on!
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On your squat form: I agree with Fear. It looks like your stance is pretty narrow so when you drop down you are having to shoot your knees out forwards and your quads are getting in the way of your body. Think of squatting as dropping down between your legs. Then it becomes more apparent that you need to get them out of the way when your body drops down, otherwise your range of motion will be restricted (especially true in the case of a low-bar back squat). Also, if your stance is wider and you feet point outwards more then, as long as you ensure your knees track over your toes, you will naturally want to sit back more. If your hams are tight then it will be hard to maintain the tightness in your lower back as you reach parallel.

Re your deads: funny, when I watched the vid, you made them look very easy and I figured you were using a very sub-max load. then I read your description and apparently that's only 45lb off your PR! Maybe you mean your 5RM? Anyway, I think the others have covered everything here.

If poss, let's see a better camera angle next time.
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(colby2152 @ Jul. 21 2008,11:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Notice his hips drive up before the bar passes his knees.</div>
that's a tough thing for me to do. need to practice this concept.
 
Personally, I don't think the guy in the vid is showing particularly good form. The issue with him driving his hips up before the bar has passed his knees is partly because he dips down just before the start of each rep and then rises back up again. What bugs me the most though is that his lower back doesn't look to be in extension; it's got a very rounded look to it. Maybe it's the angle or something but it looks pretty bad to me.

What Ripp says on the subject is miles more useful than this vid.
 
The reason the hips come up in both the videos is because the starting position is wrong. The scaps need to be over the bar. Their hips are a bit too low and when they begin to pull they naturally end up in an efficient pulling position (scaps over bar). The deadlift position is more horizontal than most people realize. You will know when you are too vertical because the bar will begin to pull away from you legs when it is off the ground. Proper positioning will pull the bar straight up, brushing the shin/knee, without any change in pressure against the leg. ie. you shouldnt be fighting the bar pulling it into your body nor should you be digging bloody furoughs up your legs.
Below/at the knee the back angle should remain the same meaning that the hips rise with the shoulders (squat like). After the bar passes the knees simply hump the bar. You seemed to do this just fine. Just fix your starting position.
What type of squat are you attempting?
 
Thanks for all the input, i'll change my current workout routine and work on my form once my back gets better. Once i can get that squat and deadlift down right, i'll start a new routine.

-bgates

I'm attempting a normal squat that rippetoe teaches. Although i've read through his books countless amount of times, it's still a work in progress. Wish i had a camera a year agon, then i would have made videos sooner.

For the first 6 months or so of doing deadlifts they used to ride up my shins and thighs like I thought was advised, but i scraped up my shins so bad that i'm now possibly trying too hard to not let that happen again. The bars in the gym have really sharp knurls (is that the right word?) on them.

I'll work on my stance like LOL and FF suggested. I've been trying to widen it already but i seem to not have enough flexibility for it right now. When i try to squat down it seems like my ankles/calves won't let me and my feet start turning it towards each other. I'm proably way off, but the reason i'm thinking it's my calves is that if i have a block off wood under my heels or if i'm standing on a small hill facing downwards, i can squat all the way down without a problem.
 
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(Lol @ Jul. 21 2008,4:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Personally, I don't think the guy in the vid is showing particularly good form. The issue with him driving his hips up before the bar has passed his knees is partly because he dips down just before the start of each rep and then rises back up again. What bugs me the most though is that his lower back doesn't look to be in extension; it's got a very rounded look to it. Maybe it's the angle or something but it looks pretty bad to me.

What Ripp says on the subject is miles more useful than this vid.</div>
I pulled out Rippletoe's Starting Strength last night and read through a few pages. The video was right about one thing - the hips are to drive up with the bar. I'm not supposed to wait until the bar passes my knees until I lift the back of my legs. This makes sense because of all of the pressure it would (and did) put on knees with the sudden stall in hip movement.
 
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(HstRiggins @ Jul. 22 2008,3:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'll work on my stance like LOL and FF suggested.  I've been trying to widen it already but i seem to not have enough flexibility for it right now.  When i try to squat down it seems like my ankles/calves won't let me and my feet start turning it towards each other.  I'm proably way off, but the reason i'm thinking it's my calves is that if i have a block off wood under my heels or if i'm standing on a small hill facing downwards, i can squat all the way down without a problem.</div>
It's actually very unlikely it's your calves/ankles and much more likely it's your hamstrings and the general flexibility of your posterior chain. If your knees are allowed to shoot forwards then you are going to think the problem is in your ankle area, but if your shins are more upright because you sit back more and because your stance is a bit wider and your knees track over your feet, it will become apparent that the problem is actually hammy related.

Hip joints can be really tight too. For me it's a genetic thing as my brother is the same. If I sit cross legged on the floor my knees stick right up in the air and to get them to drop down at all is really uncomfortable. My mate on the other hand. can drop both his knees right down with no problem at all and with no stretching. Same for his brother. Whilst I don't think my hip flexibility will ever be great, it has improved a lot since I've been squatting and stretching regularly so it's worth persevering with.

Have you watched the Squat Rx videos?

Squat Rx #1
 
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(colby2152 @ Jul. 22 2008,1:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Lol @ Jul. 21 2008,4:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Personally, I don't think the guy in the vid is showing particularly good form. The issue with him driving his hips up before the bar has passed his knees is partly because he dips down just before the start of each rep and then rises back up again. What bugs me the most though is that his lower back doesn't look to be in extension; it's got a very rounded look to it. Maybe it's the angle or something but it looks pretty bad to me.

What Ripp says on the subject is miles more useful than this vid.</div>
I pulled out Rippletoe's Starting Strength last night and read through a few pages.  The video was right about one thing - the hips are to drive up with the bar.  I'm not supposed to wait until the bar passes my knees until I lift the back of my legs.  This makes sense because of all of the pressure it would (and did) put on knees with the sudden stall in hip movement.</div>
Colby , I think the point is that you have to keep your back angle (ie. the angle your back makes with the floor) pretty constant until the bar breaks past your knees. So yes, your hip angle will gradually increase right from the start of the pull as your knee angle opens. Then, when the bar gets to your knees your hip angle will open up a lot more and your back angle will too. Obviously, all three angles are maxed in the finished position of the deadlift (extended knee, hip and back).
 
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(Lol @ Jul. 22 2008,8:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Colby , I think the point is that you have to keep your back angle (ie. the angle your back makes with the floor) pretty constant until the bar breaks past your knees. So yes, your hip angle will gradually increase right from the start of the pull as your knee angle opens. Then, when the bar gets to your knees your hip angle will open up a lot more and your back angle will too. Obviously, all three angles are maxed in the finished position of the deadlift (extended knee, hip and back).</div>
As I keep adjusting my deadlift form, I tend to overcompensate one area of the lift, and this was no different. You are absolutely spot on with your analysis of what I was trying to do versus what actually happened.

It makes the lift very tough when not driving the hips up. A lot of the force gets thrown on the knees in the beginning of the lift when doing it incorrectly like this. I, sure as hell, have been testing my ligaments!
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I fixed this in my workout yesterday evening, and the deadlift did go a lot smoother. I may have rounded my back and change the angle in my back in the beginning of the lift. I know how to do it; it's just a matter of mental focus and constant analysis. I am sure posting some videos will help me even further!

I think meeting that trainer, by accident, last week was a blessing for my training. I know the physiology and anatomy of my muscle and the physics and mechanics of the actions imposed upon them. All I really needed to do was wake up and smell the coffee. This figurative light bulb going off in my head help me realize what is actually going on during a lift. I have made corrections in my exercises where necessary, and I am, now, much more focused with the weights.
 
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