Getting Involved..

Discussion in 'Training Logs' started by shields88, Jan 16, 2015.

  1. shields88

    shields88 New Member

    Hi all,

    I've know of HST for some time now but never got round to implementing it permanently. About 18 months ago I did for a couple of month and gained about 1 stone but wasn't eating properly so can't tell you how much was lean mass.

    I'm back again now on a cut, and have done the 15's, 10's, and just finished the 5's today. I've managed to keep a lot of my strength, apart from on my shoulders (always been a weak point of mine). My chest press is the same, rows have went up, squat went up, and arms stayed about level.

    I'm staying on a diet (keto) for another 2 or 4 weeks (depending on how well the fat loss goes) then will do one week SD and start another cycle while moving over to carb backloading. My last couple of workouts on keto have been brutal when lifting close to or my 5 rep max.

    With regards to me doing another 2 or 4 weeks of 5's, should I try and increase my weight on my final workout? Or should I just progress through so that my last workout incorporates the same 5rm as today?
    For example my 5rm on db bench was 40kg, so should I up it to 42kg or keep it at 40kg?

    In all honesty this thread won't be updated too much. Due to work commitments I will update at least once every week, or might come back sooner if I need to pick someones brains!

    Routine is this:

    DB Bench
    Shoulder Press
    Lat pulldowns
    Bicep curls
    Tricep pushdowns
    Ab work (do this about 1 in every 3 workouts)

    Current weight is 85kg at about 17% body fat.
  2. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    For the upcoming weeks you should if you can be increasing the weight to try and increase your 5rm particularly as the majority of your lifts have increased recently, but as you are on a cut then maybe keep the weight the same and try and get a 6th, 7th rep etc before increasing the weight.

    Do not just keep repeating the same weight if you can lift more, obviously if you cannot do a 6th rep then you will have to keep lifting the same weight for 5 reps.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
    shields88 likes this.
  3. shields88

    shields88 New Member

    Ok so I haven't updated this since first week. I had to take a week off last week as I strained my neck playing football and I couldn't move it at all. Using the week as my SD week but not sure how to treat this next week at the gym. Should I continue with the 5s one more week trying to keep my strength, or should I go back with the 15s or 10s?

    Until I get an answer I'm just gonna do what mick has mentioned and try add an extra rep to all of my sets. To be honest I think that is what I will do for the next 2 weeks and then start another hst cycle when I start carb back loading.

    Has anyone here used carb back loading and hst to good effect? The principles both seem sound and seem as if they go well together. Just hoping it works!

    Has anyone got any (free!) links or pdf's or anything for carb back loading? I've had a look around and most places online just link you back to a pdf that you have to buy. I think I understand the principles off it from patching information together online, but would like to fully understand and make sure I'm doing it properly before I dive in.

  4. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    Will you still be cutting?

    All I can say is that I did a form of carb backloading for 13 weeks from August 2014 through to the end of October where I was able to maintain my weight at circa 177 - 178 lbs (starting at 177.6 ended at 176.8) consuming on average 2950 calories per day (average BW x 16.54) through the whole period (1st 6 weeks and approx 2750 and last 7 weeks at just over 3100) suggesting a maintenance level of 2981 - compare this with the previous 17 weeks bulk phase where average calories were approximately 3300 calories (average BW x 18.09) with an average weight gain of 0.66 lb per week which would suggest a maintenance level of around 2979 - NO DIFFERENCE -

    Looking back through my records further since October 2013 my maintenance levels have been around 2900 calories but prior to that they were nearer 2500, however my most recent bulk phase of 11 weeks saw an average weekly weight gain of 1.05 lbs consuming between 3500 and 4000 calories per day (average was 3787 - average BW x 20.8) suggesting a maintenance level of 3259 calories per day.

    So in summary it is unlikely to make much difference if you carb backload or not but what I did find was that I never felt hungry while doing CBL
  5. shields88

    shields88 New Member

    thanks for the response mate. i doubt i will be cutting, was thinking about trying to bulk as its meant to be good for lean gains. the only reason i would like to try CBL is that when I'm on keto I'm never hungry, but miss carbs like mad, and when i eat carbs I'm ALWAYS hungry. So was going to try and meet in the middle with this.
    Ive still got about half a stone i would like to lose so think I'm going to stay with keto for the next 2 weeks and then CBL for a few weeks to try it out, and if it doesn't work, atleast I will have slowly reintroduced carbs back into my diet.

    first training session back last night felt good.

    squats - 130kg
    db bench - 36kg
    shoulder press - 28kg
    seated rows - 95kg
    bicep curls - 35kg
    tricep push downs - 50kg

    I've always wondered if my lifts are proportionate to each other? i know everyone is different but is there a general consensus on whether x lift should be proportionate to y?
    if so, is there any lift there, when compared to another, that i should be working on more?
  6. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Why would you want to be not hungry when trying to gain mass?
  7. shields88

    shields88 New Member

    Ha, good point! I just always seem to gain fat too easily and when I eat carbs I always end up putting too much weight on. I can never find the balance
  8. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    Do you know your macros when you bulk? If so just lower your carb intake, if not get MyFitnessPal and log your intake and adjust accordingly

    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
  9. shields88

    shields88 New Member

    Mick, when bulking Im between 2600-3000 calories depending on whether I train or not.
    I guess I've just got to find out through trial and error. It's s hard path to work out but I'm sure it will be worth it in the end!

    And yes, the weights above are for my first training session of 5s.
  10. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    I'm not really sure how it is possible to over eat and gain too much fat if you are counting calories and only eating the appropriate amount?
  11. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    What is your expected weight gain at that calorie intake?

    You say your current weight is 85 kgs at about 17% body fat, how tall are you?

    In respect of CBL you could try and contact @wungun, he has the book so could point you in the right direction.
  12. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Re lifts being proportional to some average standard: it's not really possible to be at all specific because of the wide range of anthropometry and because you need to know your form is comparable to some standard (eg. checking you are going to at least parallel in your squats by taking correctly angled video footage, rather than going by what you "feel").
    You can check this link for some strength standards but these are really only useful if a 1RM test is something you are happy to do for the lifts in question.
    Instead, you could use the charts to compare the relative loads for your bodyweight. So, look at squats, deads and bench and see what the 1RM is for each at your bodyweight. Then you can work out the percentage difference between the lifts. It'll be a reasonable enough guide for where you should be with your 5RM for each of those lifts. Hope that makes sense? I know what I mean. :)
  13. shields88

    shields88 New Member

    ok so I'm starting fresh. I've half arsed in the gym for the last 5 or 6 months or so and I've decided i need to start the process again and kick on from there.

    mick - expected weight gain is roughly 1 lb per week.

    lol - thanks for the link, will give it a badgers now.

    yesterday i got my 1rm on my deadlift and my bench, in the next few days I'm gonna work out my 1rm on my other compound lifts.

    will update here at the end of the week what my 1rm's are, and where i am going from there.

    im not doing keto no more as my energy is non-existent. 3000 calorie diet, with 340g carbs, 210g protein and 85g fat.
  14. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    Not sure why you are starting to bulk as you did state on 16 January that you were 85 kgs @ 17% body fat, how was your body fat measured? I would have thought it would be better to cut to say 12% before starting to bulk.

    Also how tall are you? I only ask as I am currently circa 85 kgs but I am currently cutting (slowly aiming for 0.5 lb per week) at 3000 calories and was recently bulking at an average of 3787 over 11 weeks (1.05 lbs per. week)
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  15. shields88

    shields88 New Member

    mick - body fat measurement was just a guess - it could be way off and more than likely is, but I've based it off how much fat i think i have had compared to in the past when I've had measurements done. the reason I'm not cutting down to 12% right now is that i want to add some mass in the next 2-3 months or so, before i cut for 6-8 weeks before i go on holiday. I'm 5ft 11 too btw! Do you think my expected weight gain of 1lb per week is too high?

    i worked out my 1rm max for my exercises last week

    squat 150kg
    deadlift 160kg
    bench 110kg
    shoulder press 34kg db
    rows 110kg

    workout a (mon, fri, wed) - squats, shoulder press, db bench, seated rows
    workout b (wed, mon, fri) - deadlift, db flys, incline bench, lat pull down

    I'm thinking of adding some arm work (1 set bi and tri) and ab work in each session.

    Any constructive criticism of my workout is definitely welcome. I consider myself to be a novice with this and always willing to learn :)
  16. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    I would advise that you should get some calipers to get a better idea of your body fat, I would recommend accumeasure 3000

    1 lb increase per week is fine, but leaving only 6-8 weeks to cut when you have bulked from a moderately high body fat level (if 17% is correct) for 8-12 weeks would mean quite a high calorie deficit assuming you would be aiming for between 12 and 15%, which could lead to a significant loss of LBM (well it would for me) obviously if you want to get back to 17% then it shouldn't be a problem.

    Workout b - I would not do do flys (or do you mean lateral raises assuming this is shoulder work) as isolation exercises should be avoided in HST (at least during the 5s block due to form breaking down) I would just repeat shoulder press. Also bear in mind doing an A/B routine you will either be doing two max workouts on Wednesday and Friday or just one max on routine B on Friday, you will also need to increase the increments from 75/80/85/90/95/100% to 80/90/100% assuming you would still be doing two week blocks.

    I would keep the arm work in some will say not to but I don't think that it will hurt.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  17. shields88

    shields88 New Member

    I'm actually going to order some tonight, ill take your recommendation and get them off amazon!

    I'm hoping to stay as lean as i possibly can during this time, hoping for as little body fat increase as possible. i know it might be a hard task to get back down to sub 15% when the time comes, but its a chance I'm going to take.

    workout b was meant to be lateral raises btw, don't know why i wrote flys. would you recommend to keep the raises in there? or substitute them for the shoulder press still?
  18. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    Try and concentrate on the skinfold thickness rather than what the body fat works out at, as long as you take measurements in the same place every time then you can assess if you are putting on too much fat.

    Personally I would just do shoulder press every workout or if you have access to a landmine (or wedge a bar into the corner of a room) if so you could do single arm landmine presses if you want to do completely different exercises in your A/B routine
  19. shields88

    shields88 New Member

    ok so i haven't been on here for some time. training been ok for the last month, I'm happy with the progress tbh.

    I'm on my cycle of 5's and then I'm going to take a week off for SD.

    I've decided to take some of the advice here, and cut first now. I want to build some extra muscle but like been said here it will look way better once I've lost some fat. I change my mind all of the time so thats probably why I'm not getting to where I want to be, but I now have an engagement party to slim down for in 10 weeks or so so I'm staying with the cut until at least then. If all goes well I should be where I want to be and be pretty lean.

    Heres my lifts for 10 as of last week.

    DB Bench - 42.5KG
    Shoulder Press - 32KG
    Rows - 105KG
    Shrugs - 110KG
    Squat - 130KG
    Deadlift - 140KG

    I didn't manage to do much lower body work as I hurt my ankle playing football and the pressure was too great on it.

    I'm finding it hard to stay motivated too atm, I train alone and it gets pretty boring most of the time. Especially with this plan as I'm not really mixing it up too much. Anyone got any ideas on how to keep fresh?
  20. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    To stay motivated:

    Choose appropriate music to listen to during your workout time
    If you lift at home, but up some posters of powerlifter, bodybuilders or whatever, some people like looking at that kind of stuff when lifting
    Lift at the right time each day. Find what time you are at your best, many people this is in the afternoon around 3pm-5pm, some people it is in the morning.
    Make your preworkout ritual and follow it religiously every day you lift i.e. packing your gym bag, taking a preworkout, whatever stuff you do in order to prepare - turn it into a ritual rather than a routine
    Remind yourself of your workout goals verbally each day so that you don't continue to change your mind about what you want so often. In order to keep this focus, you will need to stop reading any fitness magazines you might be regularly looking through, stop reading stuff online about what is the best workout to do, stuff like that. Don't do more research. Just do the routine and diet you have set, pursue the goals you have set and don't allow anything enter your mind that will or could distract you from that.

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