Getting lean without losing beef

Sunday July 7th:

Weight: 166.2

Waist: >30

Routine: SS cardio, lighter than usual avrg HR: 140ish

Calories: a hair over 1100, don't remember exactly
 
Monday July 07

Weight: 165.4

Waist: pretty much 30!

Calories: ~3800 (woah!)

Routine: Afternoon Jog, HR ~148, 40 mins


PM: HST

I'm too lazy to log right now. lol. it was a good/typical workout.


And here I thought I was an endo-mesomorph, I'm starting to look very ecto-meso-morphic (not in a bad way per se), and I really don't think I've lost any muscle. Eeeeek!
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I really don't think I've lost any muscle</div>
Good progress. Wish i could say the same. How is your strength holding out?
 
honestly its either the same, or greater, depending on the lift!

a big question I'm struggling with now, which you vets can help me with I'm sure, is when do I stop?

This is exacerbated by not using accurate BF measurement (which is my fault)

I'm really going with the visual here, my abs to be specific.

I'm sure its different for everyone, but at 10% I wonder if you guys find you have a relatively full (not ideally defined) six pack? I remember someone saying for naturals that tends to only happen way lower.

Ideally I'd like to be able to cut/bulk in between 10-15% (who am i kidding, ideal would be more like 8-12 hehe). The question becomes, whats a reasonably sustainable level for me/my frame/genetics. I guess I'll find out one way or another!
 
<div>
(beingisbeing @ Jul. 07 2008,4:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm sure its different for everyone, but at 10% I wonder if you guys find you have a relatively full (not ideally defined) six pack? I remember someone saying for naturals that tends to only happen way lower.

Ideally I'd like to be able to cut/bulk in between 10-15% (who am i kidding, ideal would be more like 8-12 hehe). The question becomes, whats a reasonably sustainable level for me/my frame/genetics.</div>
At a measured 10.2% body fat, I do not have clearly discernible six-pack abs. That may be due to having more internal visceral fat (a problem that increases with age), or it may be that six-pack abs are a mark of 8% body fat...
rock.gif
But, what the heck, at least I no longer have just an ab...

In terms of what you are able to sustain, Tom Venuto, the author of Burn the Fat -- Feed the Muscle, is of the opinion that we can reasonably maintain a single-digit bodyfat percentage all year long...!
 
<div>
(TunnelRat @ Jul. 07 2008,6:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">At a measured 10.2% body fat, I do not have clearly discernible six-pack abs. That may be due to having more internal visceral fat (a problem that increases with age), or it may be that six-pack abs are a mark of 8% body fat...
rock.gif
But, what the heck, at least I no longer have just an ab...

In terms of what you are able to sustain, Tom Venuto, the author of Burn the Fat -- Feed the Muscle, is of the opinion that we can reasonably maintain a single-digit bodyfat percentage all year long...!</div>
I see.

I wonder, does Tom advocate cutting and bulking cycles in the regular sense?

I think even Layne Norton goes over 10 (not that he's the gold standard, just saying) and back under again for competition.

What I'll discover is how happy can a food loving individual like myself be at sub 10% haha! That'll be the deal breaker/maker.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">when do I stop?</div>

IMO, it is when you feel comfortable and confident walking around naked. Seriously. It all depends on your goals, but the premise is that your goal is to be very lean with abs showing.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I blame the woman. </div>

Why? You are the one who counts

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
Sunday June 8th:

Weight in morning: 175.6

Waist measurement: 32 inches. I'll post waist measurements daily now.
</div>


6/8/08, 175.6 lbs, 32 in
7/10/08: 164.4, 30 in

Up and down caloric intake, big roller coaster ride

In a months time, you have dropped 10.2 lbs and 2 inches off of the waist. You are doing one heck of a job! You may be cutting weight too quick though. If you agree, then you can afford to boost the calories in your cutting days a bit.
 
<div>
(colby2152 @ Jul. 08 2008,9:36)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">when do I stop?</div>
IMO, it is when you feel comfortable and confident walking around naked.</div>
You may want to check with your local police before trying this...
laugh.gif
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Why? You are the one who counts</div>

very true. but apparently not, according to her
smile.gif


<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You may be cutting weight too quick though. If you agree, then you can afford to boost the calories in your cutting days a bit. </div>

Yeah, I'm still not sure on this one. I looked into Lyle's magic number 33. Apparently weight training can allow for greater deficits and what not, but this is not explained quantitatively. I was just going to keep doing what I was doing until thing slowed naturally. I really don't want to lose much more anyway. I may switch to pure UD2.0 for the last two weeks.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You may want to check with your local police before trying this...
laugh.gif
</div>

hahahahaha
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yeah, I'm still not sure on this one. I looked into Lyle's magic number 33. Apparently weight training can allow for greater deficits and what not, but this is not explained quantitatively. I was just going to keep doing what I was doing until thing slowed naturally. I really don't want to lose much more anyway. I may switch to pure UD2.0 for the last two weeks. </div>

That magic number came from an experiment done at the University of Minnesota. I have it linked here in my Optimizing Your Caloric Intake thread.

I was thinking about something today. It was part of my base idea of going back to HST basics a month ago If we should eat more on workout days - alternate bulking and cutting days, then shouldn't the majority of the food be consumed in the window of protein synthesis AFTER the workout? For those who workout in the evenings, most of my food in a day is consumed before the workout, so in effect, I am bulking mostly before I workout. Giving myself a digestion window of six hours opens up that protein synthesis window though.

What do you think about this?
 
[/QUOTE]I was thinking about something today. It was part of my base idea of going back to HST basics a month ago If we should eat more on workout days - alternate bulking and cutting days, then shouldn't the majority of the food be consumed in the window of protein synthesis AFTER the workout? For those who workout in the evenings, most of my food in a day is consumed before the workout, so in effect, I am bulking mostly before I workout. Giving myself a digestion window of six hours opens up that protein synthesis window though.

What do you think about this?
I would say yes, most of the food should be in the post WO window. In fact, this is exactly what I do most of the time.

That said, having your amino acid pool high, and your body in an anabolic state pre workout, as fantastic as well, as you know.

But for purposes of cutting in this manner, I think more calories in the post WO window may be better.

What I do for example:

Tuesday is a diet day. Cardio, 250 gr protein, 50-60 gr carb, blah blah. 1500 calories or under.

Wed: I wake up, continue eating as if I'm on the PSMF-diet day mode. I may add one apple to my egg whites in the morning, but still nothing over about 30 gr carbs, hardly any fat.

Pre work out meal is 25/25 protein/carbs, this is what I consider the beginning of the bulk day. Then I give myself about 6-8 hours to hit most of my caloric intake for the day, (very high carb/low fat as of late. in fact its become more of a mini carb load than anything). Then it tapers off into casein based proteins and back into diet mode.

If I work out late in the day, then I just drag on the diet day until my pre workout meal. If I have to sleep, I'll eat until I sleep, and then wake up once or twice and slug some carbs and cottage cheese.

It sounds IFish, but thats no surprise, because the thread that spawned what I'm doing was more or less nkl's brainchild, which replaced the fasting of IF with a protein sparing modified fast.

In my chats with Lyle at his forum, it seems he basically did exactly this years ago, he calls it every other day refeed.

He would do cardio in the morning of his 'bulk' days (MWF), and then eat in a 5-6 hour super high carb window around his evening workout. Diet days were 8 cal/lb body weight, brisk walking only.

He said on bulk days he wouldn't count calories at all, just reduce fat intake to 30-40 grams, and load up (rainbow sherbert, captain crunch, real healthy stuff hahah).
 
Saturday July 12

weight: 167.4

waist: under 30

calories: 1550

routine: 6 mile jog (10 minute mile) 1 mile walk

I have a wedding Sunday, with a rehearsal dinner Saturday night.

Two options I'm mulling over.

1) PSMF from now until Sat morning, tension workout, then refeed Sat and Sunday, try to blast off the last few lbs, restrict activity to 2-3 heavy/low volume workouts, no cardio.

2) Start up UD2.0 again to finish out the last few lbs, using the higher calories Sat/Sun as an opportunity to maximize gains from the power workout that would fall on Sat morning.

I like option 1, as I think I'll be able to shred another 2 lbs off no problem, if not more, without muscle loss, as long as I keep volume low and ditch the cardio.

I like option 2, as I think my joints are needing some high rep work.

We'll see. I'm re reading RFL handbook right now.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I would say yes, most of the food should be in the post WO window. In fact, this is exactly what I do most of the time.

That said, having your amino acid pool high, and your body in an anabolic state pre workout, as fantastic as well, as you know.</div>

This is what I was going to do originally, but I have stuck with the day of (before and after WO) instead of a given time window after my workout for simplicity purposes. It may not matter in the end, but I will stick with this approach through the rest of my cycle.
 
Monday July 14th

Weight: 165.2

Calories: 1400ish

Routine: Depletion workout as laid out in UD2.0
cardio at night (40 mins VERY light jog)
my god this workout was PAINFUL !

I'm going RFL this week, until saturday.

I'll do a round of 5s on weds, and then another round of 5s on sat afternoon, and then begin loading.

A little light cardio here and there.

I've been excited at the prospect of using the UD2.0 as a bulk, starting in a few weeks. My 'diet days' are relatively easy to get through, adding 100 grams of CHO and a load of fat to get to maintenance or maintenance-10% will feel like paradise.

Add to that the prospect of muscle gain with minimal fat gain, I'm in heaven.

But I'm getting ahead of myself here...
 
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