How to Deadlift

Discussion in 'Basic Training Principles and Methods' started by stevejones, Sep 3, 2008.

  1. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    Everyone here should already know how to use good form on the deadlift.  This has been discussed on this board numerous times.  However, what you might not know is that you should always do your reps using double overhanded grip (use straps).  The risk for a bicep tear is too great using over/under.   To all you guys who say "but i've been using over/under for 95 years and I've never had a bicep tear," it's better to prevent one now than to be sorry later.   Even if you're a powerlifter, there is no need to train that way.  You can always train your grips with static holds, etc. etc.

    Saw this video on another board

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW6dTdSnDtU
     
  2. Wildman

    Wildman New Member

    I have tried both grips and prefer the double overhand. I have felt some hard stretches in my biceps with the mixed grip and could easily see how a tear could happen.

    Thanks for the safety tip.
     
  3. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    Whoa! Yes, thank you.

    I've heard about such things, but I've never seen one before.

    I can usually manage a pronated grip up to about 85% of my 1RM. After that I've been using a mixed grip. I think perhaps I might just start using straps...
     
  4. bgates1654

    bgates1654 New Member

    My grip has never failed with the double overhand hook grip on the deadlift... although it is particularly painful at times. The upside is that oly lifting with the hook grip is painless.
     
  5. I need serious grip training. Without a mixed grip I can at best do warmups for my deadlift. Even with mixed grip, grip is my limiting factor. With double overhand my deadlift weight drops big time and I don't want to use a strap.
     
  6. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Like bgates I tend to go for a hook grip now for my 'heavyish' singles rather than use reverse grip but doing so does give my thumbs a real beating. They haven't pulled off yet though.

    I am sure Steve is right, but I wonder how many biceps tears have been caused in folks lifting relatively lighter weights (less than 500-600lb)? The guy in the vid is lifting monster singles. I guess eventually something becomes the weak link in the chain and has to give. Does this tend to be a problem mainly for folks in the crazy strength bracket?

    Evidently, the arm with the supinated hand experiences more biceps strain during a heavy lift because it is isometrically contracting really powerfully to stabilise the elbow and shoulder joint and isn't getting as much help from the brachialis, brachioradialis and other forearm muscles. Definitely something to bear in mind if limit singles are attempted.
     
  7. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    I'm too much of a wuss to handle the hookgrip.  It hurts.  Besides, it's been shown to cause mad cow disease.  

    The thing with supinated deadlifts and medium to wide grip bench presses is that those presses cause more pec tears than anything else, and the deadlifts cause more bicep tears.  So, to get around that fact, guys start to say "yeah, but that only happens if you're on steroids and pulling a huge amount of weight", etc. etc.   Before you know it, YOU are the one who is pulling alot of weight, and you have forgotten all the advice given because you shrugged it off, thinking it could never happen to you.  That's my situation...I had heard this stuff along time ago, but shrugged it off, and then I watched that video.  So, I will discontinue doing supinated deads.  

    It's no big deal...just throwing some safety precautions out there to remind guys of a thing or two.

    Oh, and always remember.....
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    In the many years of deadlifting and competing I have never seen a bicep tear in person.

    Seen videos tho
     
  9. mikeynov

    mikeynov Super Moderator Staff Member

    I agree that, competition aspirations aside, people are better off with some combination of double overhand, hook (if you can manage/tolerate it), or straps.

    That said, it's worth pointing out that training sans an alternate grip to stay safe and saving it for competition could, theoretically, backfire.

    Because training with an alternate grip is conditioning your capacity to handle the increased stresses imposed upon the supinated arm. That doesn't mean you can't still exceed your tolerance and tear something, but it does imply that going from a hook grip or straps to a double overhand once in a blue moon is probably a lot more likely to make that possibility happen, imho.
     
  10. beingisbeing

    beingisbeing New Member

    So does this mean supinated grip chins, weighted and heavy, can also be an issue for the biceps?
     
  11. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (beingisbeing @ Sep. 12 2008,5:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So does this mean supinated grip chins, weighted and heavy, can also be an issue for the biceps?</div>
    Well, I think the chances of pulling the biceps muscle from supinated chins are pretty remote. The loading on the bis has to be a lot less than for a deadlift - ever tried curling your deadlift loads? Perhaps if you tried to do hanging static holds with hands supinated and with 300lb+ hanging from your waist you might enter the danger zone? Dunno. Even with lighter loads, if you were to drop into the bottom position and try to rely on a bit of a stretch reflex to get the next chin started, you might be asking for trouble.

    What does cause a problem for a lot of folks (me included) is tendon insertion strain (or perhaps myotendinous junction strain) in the region of the elbow joint when lowering into and pulling from the bottom position with the hands supinated. A three-quarter ROM rep is fine but with a full ROM the turnaround at the lowest point seems to be the cause of strain injuries for some.

    It might also be linked to age, as tendons lose some of their youthful flexibility as we grow older. Whatever the cause, it sucks. I've had a right arm issue that prevents me from chinning for about seven months now. It has improved but every time I try a chin I get a twinge so it's still not fully healed. Parallel grip and regular pull-ups (with pronated hands) are almost fine.
     
  12. 1. That guy´s arm popped due to a lack of flexibility and not his grip.

    2. Not passing any judgements here- but it is known that in the case of heavy´roiding, sometimes the muscle grows so fast and dense that the blood supply to the inner parts of muscles is cut off, resulting in a necrosis.
     
  13. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    I thought it was just me and my weird body when I occasionally get either cramps or DOMs in the pecs from deads. Now I see it's probably not all that weird.
     
  14. beingisbeing

    beingisbeing New Member

    on another related note...

    I've been using preachers to train the Bi's lately...

    I prefer to go to a fully straightened/extended eccentric, but whenever I'm doing these I'm wondering if the tremendous stress I feel on the bicep is a good thing...

    I see some guys only go down to 90 degreesish...perhaps that's 'right?'

    what do you guys think...
     
  15. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (beingisbeing @ Oct. 14 2008,3:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">on another related note...

    I've been using preachers to train the Bi's lately...

    I prefer to go to a fully straightened/extended eccentric, but whenever I'm doing these I'm wondering if the tremendous stress I feel on the bicep is a good thing...

    I see some guys only go down to 90 degreesish...perhaps that's 'right?'

    what do you guys think...</div>
    I've never understood the need for, or desire to do, preachers. Every time I see someone doing them their form invariably sucks because they are using too much weight and only get a half-decent ROM.

    I suppose they aren't all bad but I can't see any real benefit to doing preachers over regular barbell or db curls. Once you are past your 5RM loads, at least you can cheat 'properly' with standing bb curls and then benefit from doing negs.

    My favourite way to stress bis is to do a Max-Stim set using my 5RM load for 20 reps. I get a really deep strain feeling afterwards. If I could only get my right arm injury to heal up I'd be doing these babies every cycle.
     
  16. beingisbeing

    beingisbeing New Member

    Lol

    how would you define a proper and safe range of motion for a preacher? I guess thats the question...

    (I concur 100% with the BB curl + max stim combo. I just switched out of boredom to be honest...and because my right shoulder didn't seem to want to stop hiking and cheating on heavier loads)
     
  17. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (Lol @ Oct. 13 2008,11:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've never understood the need for, or desire to do, preachers. Every time I see someone doing them their form invariably sucks because they are using too much weight and only get a half-decent ROM.

    ...

    My favourite way to stress bis is to do a Max-Stim set using my 5RM load for 20 reps.</div>
    I do EZ-Bar preacher curls at the advice of my physiatrist (my fancy sports medicine doctor). Because I have a weak shoulder, it is difficult for me to control a dumbbell on that side. The combination of preacher bench and EZ-Bar gives me the stability I need.

    BTW, the preacher bench at my gym has a rack for the bar. So I am able to get the bar completely out of my hands during my M-time.
     
  18. Wildman

    Wildman New Member

    I like preachers for the lower/middle end of the ROM. At the top of the ROM you lose the tension completely. I use them for a stretch exercise and reduce the weight so I can go all the way down. Stop at about the three quarter point then lower it to keep the tension going.

    You can negate the letoff point issue somewhat by using a low pulley for the resistance to make this a much better movement for the entire ROM.

    My thought has been to hit the muscle from different angles and different stretch points to attain a more complete development. If it is just mass you seek then go with the standing barbell/EZ bar curl or dumbell concentration curls.

    Variety is the spice as they say and when you go looking for quality once you have enough mass then consider using some of these other movements. The stretch point for preachers is superior to incline curls IMO and really good for hitting the lower tie-in so dont discount them completely. I have genetically short heads and the stretch work has really helped to mask this, along with brachialis work of course.
     
  19. beingisbeing

    beingisbeing New Member

    so wildman, TR

    you guys are going ALL the way down on the eccentric to the point of elbow lock out?

    I guess I even have this question about standing BB curls. To stop just short of elbow lock out, or go all the way and begin the rep from &quot;dead weight&quot;

    another related note...elbows at sides (arms vertical/perpendicular to floor), slightly in front or behind for standing BB curls?

    being is getting anal [​IMG]
     
  20. being, just take care with the preacher. I used to do them and got an annoying elbow pain. Luckily nothing serious but I ditched preacher's. In retrospect it was probably due to &quot;bouncing&quot; the weight on the way down, hyperextending the elbow.
     

Share This Page