How to Deadlift

Discussion in 'Basic Training Principles and Methods' started by stevejones, Sep 3, 2008.

  1. Wildman

    Wildman New Member

    electric:

    Yeah, I use a full ROM on both movements but for different reasons. There is nothing wrong with coming a little short to keep contenuous tension either. I do this sometimes as well if I am using the movement for a pumping exercise. For explosive mass training I prefer to come out of it with dead weight and explode the weight up. Then lower it controlled and slow. For a shaping movement I want the full stretch at the lower end.

    This would be my approach to any explosive mass building exercise. As heavy a weight as I can control. A full ROM for a dead weight start with an explosive concentric followed by a smooth controlled excentric. Not snail slow but 1/2 tempo for explosive movements. I do not pause at the concentric peak on mass movements as the weight is normally too high to do much of a contraction anyway. The goal is to build explosive power. A bench press, squat, deadlift, military press, barbell curl, french press all fall into this category. Big lifts with a lot of weight on the bar.

    For shaping movements I use a moderate weight. This is your typical lifting for isolation work. I will slow the rep speed down a bit. These are normally isolation exercises with a good stretch at the bottom of the ROM. I will use 2/3 tempo or 3/4 tempo even for some lifts. So things like flys, dumbell concentration curls, tricep rope extensions, dumbell rows, latpulls, leg extrensions, leg curls etc. I treat as shaping movements. I will focus on a brief pause at the peak of the movement for these. The pause is brief enough to get a full contraction is all. I am not looking to do a static hold just a full squeeze.

    For peaking movements I use a lighter weight and higher reps. I would choose to use a reduced ROM to maintain contenuous tension. I do not come all the way down with the weight but will come all the way up and squeeze. I will use a variety of rep speeds for peaking movements but typically stay with a 1/2. Sometimes I go a little faster for the pump and occlusion. I really focus on a concentric peak for these. Maybe as much as 2 seconds or more depending on the feel.

    Each of these types of lifting have different benefits and results. It would depend upon my goal at the time. A nice mix of all three is a good way to go in my opinion. I would start with the mass work then go to a shaping movement and finish off with a peaking movement if I were using a solid split routine where I would exercise only one or two muscles per day. For full body work I stay away from peaking exercises. My goal for full body work is hyper-trophy so I would stick with mass movements and a little bit of shaping movement technique.

    Sorry I cant be more scientific but these are all great variations that each have there merits. You can use any of the three techniques for virtually any movement. Some just lend themselves better to each. I would keep my compound movements as mass movements or shaping movements though.

    Bingo to electric on his post. Use your preacher work as a shaping movement or peaking movement. Nice slow negatives with a full ROM. Save the explosive lifting for the mass building movements like the barbell curl. The hyper-extension would come from slightly too much weight or a fast descent like electric says.

    Since there is a break off point at the top of the preacher curl, you can implement a nice static contraction for peaking. Squeeze em good and hold it for a second or two before lowering it controlled and smooth. Remember you can use a low pulley to keep the tension over the full ROM or simply reduce the ROM to keep the tension on the muscle if you are peaking.
     
  2. Wildman

    Wildman New Member

    <div>
    (beingisbeing @ Oct. 14 2008,11:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">so wildman, TR

    you guys are going ALL the way down on the eccentric to the point of elbow lock out?

    I guess I even have this question about standing BB curls. To stop just short of elbow lock out, or go all the way and begin the rep from &quot;dead weight&quot;

    another related note...elbows at sides (arms vertical/perpendicular to floor), slightly in front or behind for standing BB curls?

    being is getting anal [​IMG]</div>
    It is good to be anal so keep it up. It is a sign of intelligence I think. I didnt address all of your concerns with my previous post. For barbell curl I lock my arms at my sides for the full ROM. Raising the elbow at the peak is a way to cheat to reduce the weights angle at the weakest point of the lift. Save that and body english for your last reps. If you cant keep yourself from it, put your back to a wall for a few sessions. Make yourself keep the tricep against the wall. If you dont feel wall then you are cheating a little. This will help you train to keep the form.

    The body always seeks the path of least resistance. If you are looking to train for lifting as heavy weight as possible, seek those paths. If you are training for muscle quality, seek ways to make it more difficult and strict.

    My benching technique is a good example of this. I use a power benching position but in reality, I would get much more chest and shoulder development from reducing the weight and swapping to a bodybuilding form.

    I.E.

    A power bench press involves an exaggerated curve in the spine to reduce the ROM, elbows tight to the torso with a moderate width grip to activate the lats and triceps more. A bodybuilding form would arch less and use a wider grip with the elbows away from the torso to place more focus on the chest and deltoids.
     
  3. beingisbeing

    beingisbeing New Member

    thanks for the great info wildman!

    I def like the greater burn/ harder tension of full ROM

    yesterday i applied something from BR.com and it felt great (for calf raises)

    2 sec count at full eccentric/stretch, starting from &quot;dead weight,&quot; explode up, count 2 again, lower, repeat.

    I had to take ~20 lbs of the bar to complete normal reps, but I seriously haven't been able to walk all day...in a good way:). The increase in tension stimulus was scary, even though I'm usually very anal about form as it is and don't use any momentum by any reasonable standards

    I wondered about applying this logic to all exercises, and have been in certain cases for a while (dead hang chins for example, full eccentric stretch on rows with a 1-2 count, etc)

    bench (this could be dangerous), OH press, squats (again it could be dangerous) triceps extensions of all kinds, BB curls, preachers, etc.

    I guess its a matter of full ROM vs safety on an exercise to exercise basis at the end of the day. And there is a continuum from limited ROM and full momentum abuse to full ROM and dead weight/ lock out...or one could even start with dead weight with OUT lock out.

    For biceps in particular I just wonder about safety when my arms are fully extended over that preacher bench and close to elbow lock out

    I guess I've felt the same anxiety on BB curls, if the weight is totally lowered and elbows are close to lock out. that initial hump is VERY high tension with strict form.

    again, safety vs higher tension

    sometimes the strain is so great I get these anxiety like I'm about to tear something!

    its a decision I guess I 'm going to have to make for myself...

    greater tension stimulus vs safety
     
  4. Wildman

    Wildman New Member

    I have the same concerns with preacher curls also. I dont use them for power movements because of the sheer on the elbow is uncomfortable in a bad way. That is why I would use a lighter weight on those and focus on slow reps with a nice squeeze at the top instead. The squeeze will take the wind out your sails so that you have to use a lighter weight to get in all the reps. Do the explosive movements for biceps with lifts that let the bar hang all the way down so to speak. Not so much sheer on those.

    During these cycles I am doing no pumping work at all. That is something more for finishing work and nothing a new trainer would do. Get the mass first then experiment with ways to shape it is the way to go I think. I did pumping work in my volume cycles before HST. That and many different shocking principles. It was a cycle of learning for my partner who had never done any of that type of work. We covered all of them I know of which made the intensity too high overall. If you use shocks then use them sparingly at first I say. The real big guys with great recovery can do more I am sure but us natural guys have to take it a little easier.
     

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