HST or not?

C

canehdian_guy

New Member
Hey,

I'm trying to gauge if HST would be a good fit for my friend. Being new to bodybuilding I saw major gains with this program but I'm not sure how well it would work for a seasoned bodybuilder. My friend has consistently been working out for 10 years and he managed to pack a fair bit of muscle onto his frame along with a lot of strength but the size gains he has seen have been quite disappointing. I worry that while practicing HST, especially while in the 15 rep range and when only lifting a percentage of his maximum weight, that his size and especially his strength will diminish.

What do you guys think? Is it likely that either my friends size or strength will be negatively affected by this program?

Thanks
 
I don't think size or strength will be affected. He should go ahead and design an HST routine, test his maxes and take 9-14 days of SD, then begin the HST routine.
 
As long as food intake is at a surplus and rest is adequate, there is no reason for strength & size to suffer.
 
It has not been my experience that doing HST has a negative impact on seasoned lifters. It seems to be continuing to work for me, for example.
 
Awesome thanks guys! I've read that the 15 rep range is mostly for beginners because it strengthens the lifters tendons etc, would it be advisable for my friend to skip that portion of the routine?

Also I have read that the main rep range that leads to muscle hypertrophy is the 8-12 rep range. How well do you think HST would work if instead of using the traditional repetition and set progression one were to do 2 sets of 12 for the first two weeks, 2 sets of 10 for the next two weeks, then 3 sets of 8 for the last weeks?

Thanks again
 
8-12reps being the ideal range for hypertrophy is something of a modern BB'ing myth. The 15s-10s-5s-continued 5s//3s//negatives ranges has worked very well for HST, however rep schemes such as 12-10-6-3 have been used, and some folks like to use 20 instead of 15 for big compounds like squats and bench.

You definitely want a heavy rep-range in there, whether 5, 6, 4, 3 or just negatives.
 
canehdian_guy said:
Awesome thanks guys! I've read that the 15 rep range is mostly for beginners because it strengthens the lifters tendons etc, would it be advisable for my friend to skip that portion of the routine?

Also I have read that the main rep range that leads to muscle hypertrophy is the 8-12 rep range. How well do you think HST would work if instead of using the traditional repetition and set progression one were to do 2 sets of 12 for the first two weeks, 2 sets of 10 for the next two weeks, then 3 sets of 8 for the last weeks?

Thanks again
Click to expand...

The 15 rep range is purely a result of application of load progression. After a period of strategic deconditioning (SD), you start a cycle with loads that allow at least 15 reps. Your muscle tissue will be sensitive to these loads because of the period of SD. The loads will be increased over the course of the cycle, staying ahead of your muscle-tissue's ability to become resistant to adaptation to the load applied (ie. the loading will continue to drive a PS response throughout the course of the cycle). You will end a cycle with loads that will allow you to perform 5 or fewer reps each set. (The logical end point might seem to be multiple singles with close to your 1RM, but, in practice, that turns out to be far too taxing on your CNS to make any sense in a primarily muscle-building context. Injury is also more likely due to breakdown in form at such a high intensity.)

The 15s are not there to strengthen tendons—higher intensities (% 1RM) will do that. 15s create more lactate which has been shown to be beneficial for joint/tendon healing and repair. It is a good way to start a cycle that will end in using the heavy loads that may well cause joint and tendon soreness—then, after SD, the 15s are used to kick off the next cycle again. Make sense?

Appropriate volume for your friend will depend on what his body is conditioned to. Even if he is used to doing a lot of volume that doesn't mean he can't grow on less. It might be a case of making adjustments to volume as the cycle progresses. There are various indicators that are useful in determining whether you are doing enough to elicit a PS response or not. See the FAQ's for further info.
 
I start by loving the 15's, who'd have thought you can get a muscle response from lifting relatively light weights. But after you've gone through a few cycles they come back to bit you on the ass big time....

I find 1 week of the 15's is enough, it keep them in the cycle but drops the length where I don't feel the gains.
 
Thanks guys I appreciate all of your responses.
@Alex I'll definitely stick to the 15-10-5 since I haven't been working out consistently but I think the 12-10-6-3 would work great for my friend. What do you guys think about 12-9-6-post 6's? This way it allows for a lot of weight variation while remaining similar to the "vanilla hst". Thanks again

@Lol. Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. One of the great things about this forum is that there are many users like yourself that I'm sure will never be crippled by bodybuilding. Do you feel like the 12 rep range would create a sufficient amount of lactose or would you advise at least doing a few 15 rep workouts?

@AnderynGlas. I'm considering just taking the week thanks. The 15's can't be bad as for increasing your cardio for the cycle though.
 
canehdian_guy said:
@Lol. Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. One of the great things about this forum is that there are many users like yourself that I'm sure will never be crippled by bodybuilding. Do you feel like the 12 rep range would create a sufficient amount of lactose or would you advise at least doing a few 15 rep workouts?
Click to expand...

I think at least one week of 15s is a good idea, especially if you've been lifting for a lot of years. It's a really good prep for the longer, heavier end of the cycle. Also, anyone who thinks sets of 15 reps with their 15RM for squats and deads are easy, surely hasn't tried them. For the first week of 15s, when the load is lightest, I just do more reps for a really good burn, as that's what I'm after.

The only time I would skip 15s entirely is if I'm cutting or if I have no joint or muscular issues and I want to do a shorter cycle.
 
LOL, I am curious as to why you would skip the 15's when you are cutting. That almost seems counter-intuitive.
 
In Tot's cutting thread, he recommends to just keep repeating the 5's cycle while in a deficit to preserve as much muscle as possible.
 
Totz, I believe, is referring to continuing a cycle with the 5's while cutting which makes a lot of sense since there is less RBE with lower reps. LOL, I think, was talking about skipping the 15's after an SD if he were cutting. Perhaps I read too much into his comment.
 
From the thread:

Totentanz said:
HST for cutting:

Skip 15s
No SD - only SD if you are burning out or need a break from the diet, and during SD you must eat at maintenance.
You should endeavor to do cardio twice a week if possible
calories = 10-12 x bodyweight in lbs - if you are doing cardio then closer to 12, if not then closer to 10
protein = as close to 1.5 lbs x lean mass in lbs as possible
no or few isolations
3 x a week workouts as in normal HST, but you can draw out the 5s longer if you wish, or after the 5s just restart the 10s.
Click to expand...
 
T-Man. Thanks for sharing the quote. It seems a little contradictory to me but I am all for continuing to do what works for someone. What works for me, may not be ideal for someone else. It's all about finding the right combination and Totz and LOL have certainly done that. It's amazing, however, the number of people who continue the same routines that are not working because they are afraid they might "miss some gains" if they try something else even though they are making no gains. I doubt Totz and LOL got it right for themselves the first time around but had the balls to buck the trend and find out what did work for them. Hell, even after 50 years of lifting I am making a major change next cycle to try something radical that I have never seen done before although it will still be based on HST basic principles. Maybe it will be what my body needs at this point in time. Maybe not. Who knows.
 
Well thanks for all your replies guys. My routine starting this Sunday would look very different without your help and I feel like this routine will be much more effective in it's current state.
 
Hey guys,

I have done the "Simplify and Win" routine once before and throughout the routine I felt very under worked. Even though I felt under worked I saw awesome size gains but I felt like my upper body had the potential to grow even further had it been worked a bit harder.

Do you guys think I would be better to go with a basic 4 exercise routine or add two compound exercises per muscle group? What I was thinking was: Incline BP/Dips, Chip ups/Row, Squats/Deads, Military Press/Arnold Press then Ab/Lowerback. Any other suggested routines/exercises would be appreciated too.

Thanks

Edit: P.S: I'm highly considering alternating squats/deads because I saw really good leg growth and because they both completely exhaust me which I feel would limit my growth if they were combined.
 
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