is this still hst

[faz]

do 2wks of 10s 5s negs mon,wed,fri, as normal 6wks..but instead of doing 15s first,do them on the tue,thu,starting the first week.would there be any benefit in this .

 

[-[[[----]]]-]

Why not just use 15's as warm-up to the 10's etc working sets - that way you'll get an adequate warm-up, joint protection and 36hrs rest min between bouts...

 

[jvroig]

Hey faz

Nice to see you are still inquisitive about so many things, a true mark of an enthusiast!

Quote[/b] ]do 2wks of 10s 5s negs mon,wed,fri, as normal 6wks..but instead of doing 15s first,do them on the tue,thu,starting the first week.would there be any benefit in this .

If you mean do the 15's every tuesday and thursday until the whole cycle ends, well, during the first weeks, it would have the similar effect as if you trained 5x a week with just the fifteen's, with the stark difference that once your muscles started adapting to the far higher weights (let's say something really close to your actual 10RM ), the 15's you do will have no hypertrophic effect whatsoever on your muscles. I doubt they would also serve as useful metabollic exercises since, by doing them on a separate day, they never actually get exposed to a sufficient load that day while you do the 15's. All that might accomplish is lessen your ability to recover from your training and burn you out much faster, since during the rest days you should have had, you did 15's workout.

Of course, one may argue that some do 6x a week training. That depends on the person, but if you are going to do something similar to that, I'd suggest perhaps doing something that would be more, errr... "productive" with regards to hypertrophy, since doing 15's (very light weights) when you are already doing heavy weights at different days would mean the 15's would be quite ineffective to producing hypertrophy.

As for the lactic acid build-up (I'm guessing that's your main reason you thought of this, perhpas to assist in healing joints allthroughout the cycle), well your plan may have some benefits in that area. However, that benefit alone (but that would still be debatable), IMHO, wouldn't be able to outweigh the cons, like possibly hindering your recovery without contributing hypertrophy.

If it is your concern to take care of your joints all throughout the cycle, the best you can do would be not to skip the 15's each cycle, always observe proper form, watch out for the exercises that are just pretty damaging to certain joints that you may already have problems with, and avoid using too much weight.

Hope that helps.
-JV

 

[faz]

thanks again jv.you answered everything i was thinking about..i am sticking with the basic routine for a couple of cycles at least..just being inquisetive

 

[Fausto]

JV

Since you are so enthusiastic in answering and with good answers too, I am going to ask your opinion on this, obviously I have my own,

but usually I check with others before just going half cocked, if you know what I mean

I am thinking of doing 15's at least till after the 10's for my biceps, because of lateral epicondylitis (tennis elbow) that I contracted due to abuse of heavy curls.

During this time, I will not perform normal bicep work but rather a reduced version of it, in the higher range of reps and I will perform the recommended therapeutic warm ups in the hope that this will speed up healing.

Your opinion or any others for that matter.

I am just throwing the "proverbial spanner in the works"

Ciao

 

[jvroig]

Hey, Fausto

Quote[/b] ]Since you are so enthusiastic in answering and with good answers too, I am going to ask your opinion on this, obviously I have my own,  but usually I check with others before just going half cocked, if you know what I mean

Yeah, last time I did something like that I almost dislocated my ankle (that was long ago, not related to bodybuilding)  

Quote[/b] ] am thinking of doing 15's at least till after the 10's for my biceps, because of lateral epicondylitis (tennis elbow) that I contracted due to abuse of heavy curls.
During this time, I will not perform normal bicep work but rather a reduced version of it, in the higher range of reps and I will perform the recommended therapeutic warm ups in the hope that this will speed up healing.

Hmmm... I'm no sports M.D., but I do believe that idea would actually work, JMHO.

I guess your idea would follow the logic of doing high reps (but for an extended period of time) in order to:
1.) build up lactic acid for much longer, in order to possibly increase its help in the healing of the affected joint, and
2.) at the same time sparing the joint from direct heavy work loads, at least until you reach a much later part of your workout.

So that's what I think.    That's only from a purely "common man" perspective, not a sports M.D., so what I said could actually be totally far off from what woulda ctually help in the more accurate perspective of a sports M.D.

Regards,
-JV

 

[Fausto]

Hell...that was fast

Quote[/b] ]I guess your idea would follow the logic of doing high reps (but for an extended period of time) in order to:
1.) build up lactic acid for much longer, in order to possibly increase its help in the healing of the affected joint, and
2.) at the same time sparing the joint from direct heavy work loads, at least until you reach a much later part of your workout.

Exactly, so you guess it might work, hey?

Quote[/b] ]Hmmm... I'm no sports M.D., but I do believe that idea would actually work, JMHO.

Forgive my stupidity, but what does JMHO stand for, I'm not exactly English from birth if you know what I mean!

I'm not looking for an MD either, dude. The last one I spoke to recommended NSAI (ibuprofen/diclophenac or similar), and if that did not work, surgery.

I though to myself...ah....injection....surgery...your @$$ pal, I am goinmg to find another way! Pity in South Africa there is only one guy doing prolotherapy, which I was willing to try, ther is an amount of injections involved, but it is mainly natural stuff and promotes natutral healing, big in the US I believe.

 

[jvroig]

Hey Fausto  

Quote[/b] ]Forgive my stupidity, but what does JMHO stand for, I'm not exactly English from birth if you know what I mean!

JMHO = Just My Honest Opinion

It's just like the other variations that you are probably more familiar with coz they're more common; people actually say it more often as "Just MHO", which of course pretty much means the same thing.

And no, that's not stupidity. I'm also not English from birth (actually, not English or American at all! ), and also not much of an internet chatter, so I also have a hell of a time figuring out acronyms like that.  

Regards, and don't let that sports doc tear you apart!  
-JV

 

[Fausto]

JV
Thanks mate.

Quote[/b] ]Regards, and don't let that sports doc tear you apart!

I don't think he'll ever get it right!  

 He'll have to catch me first

 LOL

I suppose this means you quite agree that I might just be doing myself a favour?

No research or insight about prolotherapy? If only I knew a bit more mighjt try it myself with caution of course with caution.
After all my name has been known to belong to a certain Dr. Faustus who was a bit of a lab rat himself

 

[jvroig]

Well as far as I can remember, Faustus was the one who made the deal with the devil right, in exchange for more knowledge and power and riches and all that

Well, as for the elbow again, well, actually the 5's themselves might be a problem. While your plan might work (looks theoretically sound, although without the prespective of a professional MD, it would also depend on your experience how such "tennis elbow" affects your training. Does it directly hinder you from lifting heavy weights? Does it just make the joints ache more and easier?

Your experiences and answers there would ultimately determine (well, those plus the expert opinions of someone who specializes and have trained athletes despite that injury) whether you can do the 5's after extending the 15's, or simply do the 10's for you biceps during the 5's of everybody else (extend 15's, then go to 10's, never the 5's).

Well, that's it. Hopefully, someone more experienced in this area can give us better advice in case we are headed to more injury (hope not).

Regards,
-JV

 

[Fausto]

Quote[/b] ]Well as far as I can remember, Faustus was the one who made the deal with the devil right, in exchange for more knowledge and power and riches and all that

Yeah right! I do play for the other team though... serious... still with a few odds and ends left...I think we all do somehow (but yeah serious enough to attend Sabbath school (no, I am not a jew :!!! ) and teach it often times.

Anyway lets get into things here:

Quote[/b] ]Well, as for the elbow again, well, actually the 5's themselves might be a problem. While your plan might work (looks theoretically sound, although without the prespective of a professional MD, it would also depend on your experience how such "tennis elbow" affects your training.

Rememberance of last night's w/o, performed Arnold curls (d/b) strictly, albeit with 15's rather than 19 Kg (the prescribed 5+negs weight) and faired OK.

I am using a tennis elbow brace (over my forearm, prevents full muscle contraction and eases the pain for sure), I then followed with incline curls also stric form with the same weight although prescription indicated 4 Kgs more.

 No serious pain.

Felt a twinge when I took the same weights and performed d/b
overhead incline extensions on the bench, but only when I stopped the exercise and was putting the weights down, felt it up my forearms, but that was that.

Also did stright bar french curls with 45's (negatives) and no pain either.

So, since I started taking it easy, it is not bothering me that much!

Quote[/b] ]or simply do the 10's for you biceps during the 5's of everybody else (extend 15's, then go to 10's, never the 5's).

Yeah, exactly the line I was thinking of, in fact the next cycle I am simply going to extend the 5's after my maxes, the partner I have right now is not exactly experienced with how much of a negative I am willing to experience  

 (ends up taking too much of the concentric part.)

The squats yesterday were productive, I have been a little scared so to say of getting past my best (125 Kg) for 5, but ended up doing it again for 6 and could have done 8 or so, which means I could add another 10% and try it out.

Quote[/b] ]Well, that's it. Hopefully, someone more experienced in this area can give us better advice in case we are headed to more injury (hope not).

I'd love for Kate to give her input but your advice is "right on the money" so much for the MD

, I'll visit the physio this week or next while on SD, I need to get a good massage anyways and the missus is not inclined to get that one going qyuite the way I'd like.

Ciao, mate and .....thanks again

 

[jvroig]

No prob

Quote[/b] ] I'd love for Kate to give her input but your advice is "right on the money" so much for the MD , I'll visit the physio this week or next while on SD, I need to get a good massage anyways and the missus is not inclined to get that one going qyuite the way I'd like.

Well, good thing your wife allows you to get a massage, my girlfriend would never even consider letting me go to get a massage without her hovering a few feet away to see if everything's "legit". (She has me scared like a whipped dog!

)

Well, good to know you are taking great care and training well despite that injury. I'll remember to do something like that in the future in case I get something like that.

Regards

- JV

 

[Fausto]

Quote[/b] ]Well, good thing your wife allows you to get a massage, my girlfriend would never even consider letting me go to get a massage without her hovering a few feet away to see if everything's "legit". (She has me scared like a whipped dog!

Well, it is a guy and I am not gay so all is good, she has other very effective ways of imposing her "control" so to say

Quote[/b] ]I'd love for Kate to give her input

Where is Kate by the way? Haven't read anything from her lately! I suppose we all disappear at times, right?

Quote[/b] ]Well, good to know you are taking great care and training well despite that injury.

Not doing too bad mate, thanks, the pain is kind of manageable, and I have reduced my workout to the bare minimum, somehow I feel I could do better,

Quote[/b] ]why is it so difficult to shut the ego up?

Ciao

 

[jvroig]

Quote[/b] ]I suppose we all disappear at times, right?

Hahaha, yep, pretty much, and when the company figures out I spend my time relaxing here, they'll make me disappear