Quote[/b] (xtreme @ Jan. 21 2006,10:14)]Ok clown, errr Jester, I will try and enlighten you once again.
"Your 'JRep gains'...? Not a damned thing. Your ridiculous insinuation that you have significantly subpar genetics...it's a lil related."
You well and truly have no idea. I made the decision when I hit my teens I would change my life around, so I took my subpar genes and started weight training and martial arts. It was through my efforts I was able to become the biggest person in my family. Genetics I'm afraid DO count for something otherwise all the "wannabe" Arnold's would be walking around in abundance.
"This reflects that your parents didn't over-eat for their lifetime, and didn't spend a significant portion of it training to build muscle mass using an effective method. Your genetic base makes you human. If you had direct muscle-growing deficiencies, then you'd likely be dead (or you'd have a form of muscular dystrophy). So you have a slightly greater metabolism and need to eat more...I guess that makes you genetically-inferior or something..."
I never said I had "muscle-growing deficincies" I was just a sick, weak child. But I chose to change that, and have come a long way since then. I am far from possessing half the genetics Mentzer did - other people don't either - that is why there will only ever be one Mike or Ray Mentzer.
As your grasp of the role genetics play in ultimate size is hazy at best I will leave it at this. Enlighten yourself, it will do you the world of good when it comes to discovering a small cross section of the community has even a remote chance of coming close to becoming the next Arnold.
"Where is this evidence...?? Pictures, scientific backing, stats...where where where?"
Like I said, right here. I don't have to prove a dang thing to you, you are a kid. Like I said, I have forgotten more about training than you have ever learnt. I have trained 100's of people, all with great success I might add, so what point do I have to make to you?
"You have studies on your desk? Please post them."
Like I said, science is far from infallible and is based more on failures than successes. Do you truly think some scrawny guy in a lab coat can enlighten you as to how to build a 17" arm?
Even if he had the paperwork, without knowledge of the application it is only half the story. If you do then I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn, at a special rate for you of course, please send $50 monthly installments too...
<Btw, that is humour... you might want to look it up>
And NO I wasn't refering to Bryan in any way, shape, or form.
"Really.... please explain why we live longer, don't get scurvy, our teeth don't fall out, smallpox (as one of many diseases) has been eradicated, we are stronger and faster physically than in the last 40,000 years, the industrial revolution, the discovery and production of anti-biotics (in fact...seeing as you love war so much, go and talk to some WWII, Korea, Vietnam vets about this...hell talk to a retired GP about the kids he helped 3 decades ago), steroids/HgH/protein powders/creatine/power training/UD-2.0/etc, ultrasounds, anti-inflammatories...need I go on about the benefits and proven results of science..?"
Again, you missed my point. Science has come a long way in aiding our present living standards, BUT that doesn't mean the verdict is in on the ultimate way to build muscle (with all respects to Bryan). Opinions based, some better than others, on what is best, but spectulative at best with something so tangible as enhancing the growth process. Even Mentzer, with his vast clientelle of around 2000 clients, had to change routines to suite individual needs. I'm afraid people's responses to various details are far reaching and too complex to encase in a one size fits all training approach.
"No...his biceps grew bigger. They weren't 18inches at 8% bodyfat on Monday then a year later a different looking 18inches at 8% bodyfat. They...grew...bigger."
Of course they grew bigger but the extra height came about from stressing parts of the biceps over anothers. Like my quads, they were built up along the outside from years of kicking as a martial arts instructor... and it showed. Once I started squatting and built up the adductors, my quads were more balanced, functionally and visually.
"I'm starting to re-evaluate my contention that you are not genetically inferior . . ."
Thanks but unfortunately that isn't the case, but I appreciate the compliment.
"I am not a genius. I am not implying anything close to that. I am telling you what genius' (or genii ??) have worked on and have credible (key word right there - ...credible) evidence supporting them."
And more strength to them! What I am telling you is I have lifted some weight in my lifetime and now when something is of value and when something isn't. And JReps, whether you refuse to listen and remain closed minded, work.
"I am also ridiculing BDJ/IART/JReps for being such a poorly marketed/presented program -> a prospective buyer asks qu's, and gets turned away with a threat of legal action. I wonder if Microsoft or American Express tried that approach.
I do have experience. I put on 10kgs without a change in bodyfat over the course of a year. In the last 3 months I've cut down on BF without losing any size in my arms, legs or chest. I've done this using HST and associated nutrition information."
I am happy for you, well done. Would it upset you to learn I once added 2kgs in 2 weeks on Darden's BIG routine? There have also been times I have added muscle WHILE losing fat, so I each bodypart was bigger though I was leaner. See what I am saying here, I have a fair idea what suites me - as I hope you will or have - so for you to downplay JReps - what this is all about - is futile at best. You haven't even tried them!
"Do I need 30years of trying everything that "doesn't work" to have a credible opinion..? Good God no. That would make my efforts terribly inefficient and an arguable waste of 3 decades...and as we're on the subject - I'm sorry for your useless years in the gym and all the approaches you used that didn't provide gains."
Where did I imply that? I trained on Heavy Duty virtually from the start of my training life, and I wouldn't say I spent "useless years in the gym". Not by a long shot! Heavy Duty has, and will always be my "home". I know it inside out and how to tweak it to my own personal needs.
"I don't need to try all these out. People older than me and wiser than me have already done the groundwork. That's the beauty of being my age."
Half your luck. Then why are you so down on something you haven't even attempted? Sounds like doubletalk to me.
"Maybe you SHOULD have questioned others - and then you wouldn't have wasted all of those long hours doing something that didn't work....are you actually proud that you spent so long doing everything the wrong/slow-way..?? If you've tried everything there is then surely you must realise that almost everything you've tried has not worked...because if it did, you wouldn't have ever moved on."
Again... and again... who said that? I have tried things that have worked while others haven't. That, my friend, is how we aquire knowledge and judgement of what suites us. Even Mike had to tweak Heavy Duty, a sound program, to suite himself, Ray, Dorian, and all his 2000 clients. What is your point?
Contrar, most of what I have done HAS WORKED! Why else would I be 104kgs with 17 1/4" arms?
"If you've moved onwards from HST (or more accurately the principles and concepts developed) then I pity you. You're walking away from scientifically and anecdotally sound methods."
I have full respect for Bryan and his system, that isn't the point, like I said Heavy Duty is home to me. It has served me well for close to three decades, to each his own.
"I'm not going to waste time on something that is;
a) Not even described to me in detail. Read through Bryan's HST-Intro pages and all the free info on this site. That at least provides me with a choice.
b) Has no credible evidence. For instance...get some proof that building muscle is related to the pump/fatigue sensation. A direct link. Just as there is a direct link between mechanical strain and microtrauma."
"Where have I shown that I do not have a "grasp on anything" ..? Quote me showing exactly that."
Firstly through your false beliefs about genetics for one. If you can't accept the genetics the average person has to what the pros possess are worlds apart... then I am afraid you haven't grasped the most important point of all. Forget all the false-claims of 20" arms like they are a dime a dozen... do you truly apprecaite how few of us possess even 18" arms?
"Where did I indicate that I am immature..? Younger than you? Yes...immature? No."
Again, your narrow-minded beliefs reflect your nievity. I once believed - whole heartedly - I could/would become a pro bodybuilder. But guess what, few if any of us truly can. That is a bitter pill to swallow but true regardless.
"You see...the key thing about humour is that what you say/do needs to be f-u-n-n-y. Do you need people contributing laughing-smileys...? ...nope, me neither."
I disagree, friends have written me stating it cracked them up. The fact you lack a sense of humour is your own shortcoming. And you call yourself "Jester"? I'd re-evaluate your username if I were you.
"Once again...you have failed to address my key point;
No credible scientific evidence has been produced to show that JReps - either the method or the logic of why they work - actually increase the amount of muscle (not glycogen retention, we're talking protein here) in a skeletal muscle.
Or why JReps are superior to any other method of training in well conditioned (lets say more than 5 years of consecutive training) lifters."
Oh sorry, so you are saying I, Brian, Andrew, Rick <the Mr. Canada competitor> and the people I interact with on a daily basis all can't be seeing what we are seeing with JReps?
That is your funniest accusation yet! Wake up and smell the roses, the fact we are kinda hints that something is happening... don't ya think?
Let's see, between us we must have well over 8 decades or so of lifting - being conservative - so our 8 decades pales in comparison to your - what - one decade? Do you see how ludicrious you sound? You could show me a boat load of proof that JReps CAN'T WORK, but that doesn't prove a thing if I gain regardless.
Here is something that just came in that might be of interest to you... "Jreps kicks @$$ like nothing on earth! I have DOMS like nothing I've felt in a long time, I tried it with each
exercise, needless to say, it kicked my butt". Another "liar" no doubt?
For your edification... did you know scientists still say bees can't possibly fly. Their aerodynamic make-up prevents it. Hmmm, then why do I see bees happily buzzing around? Guess someone forgot to tell them.
