Korte's program

Discussion in 'Strength-Specific Training (SST)' started by scientific muscle, Jan 27, 2007.

  1. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Carl

    Sounds like a good plan, although I have never trained like that (going to failure on max day and all).

    I am definitelly a fan of short effective workouts, kinda like the big five (as we say here in Africa - they are: Lion, Leopard, Elephant, Giraffe and Buffalo). translating that to a workout:

    Deads / Squats / Dips* / Chins* / Press* or

    I would include a variation by alternating Dips with Bench, Chins with Pendlay Rows, and Presses with lateral raises + rear lateral raises in a supeset but that is just me... course.

    Nothing wrong with yer choice. [​IMG]

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I am not competing in powerlifting, and I think going for a 6 rep max will be safer in the long run than going for an all out 1-2 rm.</div>

    I also agree with this....after all there must be a reason why they call the range 4 - 6 reps a safety range, for cryin' out loud [​IMG]

    There is no point in going for 1 or 2 RM's when you are not going to compete in that range. [​IMG]
     
  2. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Do they really do that in Africa? Call the exersizes by animal names? What do you call shrugs? Bunnies? [​IMG]
     
  3. Joe.Muscle

    Joe.Muscle Active Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Jan. 28 2007,04:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Neither can I, but I do standing for the core work, to help with the deads and squats. I'm hoping they'll help my shoulders too, since I've been lazy about rehabilitating them.</div>
    Ditto! [​IMG]
     
  4. stevejones

    stevejones Member

  5. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    f it

    I've spent a lot of time reading about korte's program, and I like it. I'm giving up on ed coans' bench program/hst for now, and am going to start doing the 3x3 program exactly as outlined until May when I'm entering a raw bench contest.

    I think I was only able to do 1 set of deadlifts per week on hst or risk cns overtraining because even 1 set of 10 reps was 85% of my 1 rep max, and when I got into 5 reps the percentage was even higher. I should have done a better job at deducting weight according to percentages of weigh lifted instead of just subtracting 120 lbs or so and working up.
     
  6. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    That is great steve. Did you ever try max-stim? Anyway, I had a great time doing max-stim, but I am getting bored with 'bodybuilding' and I am mainly into strength training now, so Korte's 3x3 or variations thereof are what I will be doing for awhile. I haven't started yet due to a vacation last week and then extreme soreness after skiing (and falling down alot too!). [​IMG]

    I will keep you posted on my progress. Let me know how the 3x3 routine works for you. [​IMG]
     
  7. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Hmmm...Korte's title is misleading: the only 3x3 is scattered through the second month of the program! Now, since there are no instructions on the sheet Steve provided, I would imagine it starts after a deload - SD style, since the weights are so low. I understand the volume concept here.
    Secondly, the load maxes aren't really that much of an increase IMO for a 2-month program, or are they?
    EDIT: never mind; I found out it's an active spreadsheet and put my own numbers in it - it calculated for me!  
    Then things get interesting. The ten sets use fewer and fewer reps with the same weight! I usually get stronger as sets continue and I find my groove. These just get easier. Hm. But that's monday. Wednesday makes sense and Friday gets weird again. He even mentions that some guys are having to modify this scheme, but to what? Progressives? Pyramids?
    ALSO: I just studied the Westside principles and example program - it makes a lot of sense too, and I wonder which you'd think is the better program. Westside admittedly probably has more volume than I could handle; I'd have to trim it.
     
  8. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">ALSO: I just studied the Westside principles and example program - it makes a lot of sense too, and I wonder which you'd think is the better program. Westside admittedly probably has more volume than I could handle; I'd have to trim it.</div>

    Westside is good, but I want to try this idea of Korte's (no assistance, strictly working on the lifts themselves).  I've never done this type of training before, and right now I'm going through a phase where I am strictly interested in getting stronger (particularly in the bench press).  I like the idea of just working with the big three.

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Secondly, the load maxes aren't really that much of an increase IMO for a 2-month program, or are they?</div>
    I've had the same concerns.  Ed Coan's program had me on a 50 lb increase in bench over 12 weeks, and I also found another program that was supposed to increase your bench by 50 lbs in only 8 weeks (but, i'm really skeptical of it).  Also many of these bench press program focus almost entirely on the bench, and other bodyparts get kind of left in the dust, or you do them as an after thought.  With Korte I'd remained focused on the big three, and I like that (even though bench is a priority, I don't want to forget about squat and deadlift).  

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">These just get easier. Hm. But that's monday. Wednesday makes sense and Friday gets weird again. He even mentions that some guys are having to modify this scheme, but to what? Progressives? Pyramids?</div>
    I punched my stuff in that spreadsheet too, but didn't pay much attention to it.  Here are some links that will better explain Korte's stuff (bench, squat, and deadlift links on this page--in the Korte section) http://deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/  
    I'm hoping to have more of an increase (in bench, at least) then what he suggests.  I'll see what happens.  

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That is great steve.  Did you ever try max-stim?</div>

    No, not yet, but will definitely try it sometime.  I'm not a believer in keeping things the same forever, so that will probably be in my repertoire once I focus on bbing again.
     
  9. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    You also have to remember that Korte doesn't want you to have a 'heavy' squat or bench on the same day that you're going heavy on the deadlift, so that might be another reason why it seems like the weights are getting lighter (i.e on a 90% deadlift day you will only have to deal with a 60% squat and a 60% bench).

    MadCow thinks that 3x3 would not be suitable for someone who is not even close to their genetic potential (especially a noob), but feels this is a very good program for someone with experience.
     
  10. robefc

    robefc New Member

    <div>
    (stevejones @ Feb. 07 2007,02:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That is great steve. Did you ever try max-stim?</div>

    No, not yet, but will definitely try it sometime. I'm not a believer in keeping things the same forever, so that will probably be in my repertoire once I focus on bbing again.</div>
    Just as an aside, I'm using max stim from a strength point of view at the moment.

    I do 4 sessions a week with the first exercises being bench, deads, chins, squats (i.e. diff for each session)

    I do them max stim style with a min to do each rep (so about 50secs rest between).

    I do 20 reps and progress by upping the weight for 5 reps each session. For example if I got 20x140kg on deads today so I'll do 5x150kg and 15x140kg next time.

    I really like it because I like doing singles, I like the lack of fatigue, I like the progression and I like the way the 1 min rest intervals keep me below my 1rm. Previously I was building up to my 1rm with more rest and that was draining my CNS.

    Anyway it allows me to get 20 reps with my 2-3rm once a week in each of the big lifts (plus chins).

    I then use the rest of the session to do regular sets, fairly heavy but focussing on the rest of the body (e.g. bench day focus on legs and back/biceps).

    Cheers

    Rob
     
  11. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    No SD involved. The first four weeks are deload: lighter and high volume, the second 4 weeks are HEAVY and low volume. Korte recommend's doing the 8 week cycles back to back all year long.
     
  12. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Hmmmm...well I was wondering about transitioning from the 5x5 to it or 10x3 done after the 5x5...but I'm kind of thinking that if I'm plateau'ing on the 5x5, doing 3's I might be risking my joints if I go heavy with them. But I don't know, really., until I try it.
    I'm way too fond of HST to give it up, and haven't tried it with just the core movements and limited iso's. That's gonna be fun.
    I think Korte's program is simpler and more attractive to me as an older lifter than Westside, so I may try it next strength cycle.
     
  13. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    This routine is not geared towards total body hypertophy. It is purely for strength gains in specific lifts. If you want hypertrophy stick with HST or even 5x5. This is purely a powerlifting routine. And this routine has very little to do with doing 3 sets of 3 reps. 3x3 is all about doing the big 3 lifts 3 times/week....hence the name. The sets, reps and loads change throughout the 8 week program.
     
  14. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

  15. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Feb. 07 2007,20:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hmmmm...well I was wondering about transitioning from the 5x5 to it or 10x3 done after the 5x5...but I'm kind of thinking that if I'm plateau'ing on the 5x5, doing 3's I might be risking my joints if I go heavy with them. But I don't know, really., until I try it.
    I'm way too fond of HST to give it up, and haven't tried it with just the core movements and limited iso's. That's gonna be fun.
    I think Korte's program is simpler and more attractive to me as an older lifter than Westside, so I may try it next strength cycle.</div>
    3x3 stands for 3 exercises 3 times per week, not 3 reps.  Korte has you doing 6 reps for bench, 5 reps for squat &amp; deadlift during the high volume phase.  

    The only time you're doing 3 reps is during competition phase and that's only with 60% of your max, due to the fact that you're doing a 1 rep max with other lifts...you'd have to read more to understand it.  

    Anyway, you're probably making the right decision since you're focused on bbing.  I'm in strength mode.
     
  16. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    Stephan Korte is the man. I've only done one week of this simple routine and my body aches all over. Even though I'm only doing 58% of my 'max goal', I'm not used to doing 8 sets of squats and deadlifts on the same day. I can tell that this is going to work. I bet my maxes increase by 5% on all lifts by the time my 8 weeks is over. Tis good, very good.

    Thanks Sci, I owe you one.
     
  17. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    I believe it will help you in your powerlifting maxes. I like his idea of doing only regular full-range bench presses, but varying them with different width grips...simple stuff but effective.

    I wish you success with it steve! [​IMG]
     
  18. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    I started korte's ideas today. High volume of bench, squat and deads. The only thing I am doing differently is DB rear delts rows and external rotations to keep the shoulders balanced and healthy. I noticed if I squeeze my shoulder blades together tight and keep my elbows tucked in there is no pain benching and I can do alot more weight. I will still take it easy until I have properly strengthened the rotator cuff and posterior shoulder.

    I started squatting with a wide stance and going deep, as opposed to a quadriceps bodybuilding squat with narrow stance and going shallow. Wow! My hips are inflexible and weak. I have been so focused on quadriceps strength that I was neglecting my glutes. It will definitely take awhile of light deep-squatting until my hip joint opens up and gets stronger.

    I am taking my form seriously now. On deads/squat and bench, I would really like to compete someday. It seems like it would be really fun.
     
  19. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    Stevejones did alot of research about this program and found out it is used with success by advanced lifters looking to break barriers. I have found it is also very useful for novice powerlifters for very obvious reasons.

    In Korte's 3x3 powerlifting program, the first four weeks are light load/heavy volume: 5 to 8 sets of 5 reps for each lift: squats/benches/deadlifts and you do that 3 times/week! That ends up being between 75 to 120 total reps for each lift each week. For a novice powerlifter this means ALOT of practicing correct form and neural learning on the 3 competition lifts.

    It seems impossible at first, but the body adapts. I am surprised how little pain I am in doing over 25 deadlifts, 25 squats and 25 presses each workout 3 times/week. As steve also mentioned my whole body is a little stiff and sore, but in general I feel good. Since I am a novice and relearning form on the squat and bench, I may extend the volume phase longer my first go. The last 4 weeks involve lower volume and each session doing a heavy single or two for one of the lifts. (e.g.- monday train squats and bench doing 3 light sets of 3, do one or two heavy deadlifts; wednesday do 3x3 light sets for deads and squats, do one or two heavy bench presses, etc.)
     
  20. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    Deadlifting 3 times/week is awesome. [​IMG]

    I am doing a 'beginner's' version of Korte's 3x3. Squat, dead and bench starting with 50% of projected 1 rm and modestly prorgessing the weights every workout, once I am stalling doing 5 sets of 5, I will drop to 4x4, then to 3x3, 2x2, and finally end up with a new 1 rm which I will use to program a normal 3x3 cycle. I think I will be deadlifting a ton after a routine like this. Every workout although I am increasing the weights, it seems my neuromuscular system is rapidly improving as the weights actually seem to feel lighter each workout! It is not as pronounced with squat and bench, but I have never deadlifted with so much volume and frequency and my body is adapting rapidly doing so.

    I expect to pull 400 lb.s easily by the end of this cycle or the next. Then I will shoot for 500.
     

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