max-stim

Dan,

Someone mentioned work in this thread so I've been thinking again about work studies and have been meaning to ask you for the ones that were once posted on hypertrophyresearch.com. My first three years of college were engineering, which got me very comfortable with math and physics, work included. Yet it did not occur to me until today while reading through the Max-Stim research brief that distance moved in the case of lifting is partially a function of limb length, and I am 6 foot 5! I wonder, should I account for this when considering work? Using the bench press as a case, my longer arms means that for a given weight, w, the torque experienced by each muscle is greater than the torque experienced by the muscles of a shorter man. Therefore my muscles may be just as strong as the 7th dwarf but because of the torque causes by my longer arms, I will have to use less weight. Dwarf and I could each be using the same load, even though my bar has less weight on it. Biomechanically, is this correct?

As far as ROM, provided Dwarf and I have the same ribcage depth and we are both adhering to strict technique ROM is not a factor. Again, is this correct?
 
QP, limb length determines the displacement/distance that the load moves. Dang those short people with the higher bench press numbers!
 
<div>
(QuantumPositron @ Jan. 23 2008,14:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Dwarf and I could each be using the same load, even though my bar has less weight on it.</div>
You wanna be sure and smile when you say that...
 
<div>
(QuantumPositron @ Jan. 23 2008,14:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So if I want to look at my regimen from a work angle, do I need to consider my limb length when looking at the distance component of work?</div>
No I wouldn't worry about that. It still boils down to TTI. Your joint mechanics are your joint mechanics and therefore it will dictate the force (torque) but your 10RM is still your 10RM.
 
This is anecdotal but it's worth a look anyway.

Yesterday I practiced the full clean for well over an hour. I started with the hang clean doing reps in quick succession but then I figured I wanted to practice my technique, not get tired doing it. So I slowed down a bit and dedicated myself to doing a single rep with as good form as I know. That's doing the full clean. I took about a minute between each rep so you can figure I got bored quick. The point is that I did a whole bunch more reps than I ever could if let's say I did them in 3s or even 2s and still today I was fresh to do my regular routine.

The way I see it, Max-Stim allows not only to do more reps now but it allows to work out more often as well. It's worth looking at if we want to do more reps now and work out sooner afterward. I think it's worth the boredom I went through waiting between each rep.

After a while, I figured I should use that time to study my technique since that's what I was there for so I did just that. Maybe that's an advantage over lifting a bar for the deadlift for example. The full clean takes quite a bit of practice to do just OK. It takes a few years to get right. And many more to become an expert. As for the deadlift for example, there's only so much technique one needs there and once it's learned, it's hard to forget.

I haven't read much on the practice of Olympic lifts but I'm pretty sure technique is paramount while fatigue hinders proper technique. Just there I see a benefit to Max-Stim even if not directly related to hypertrophy. I mean, Olympic lifting practice is already done that way anyway.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The way I see it, Max-Stim allows not only to do more reps now but it allows to work out more often as well.</div>

Indeed. But remember - muscles require time to supercompensate, and supercompensation is what allows for progression which allows for more supercompensation.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I haven't read much on the practice of Olympic lifts but I'm pretty sure technique is paramount while fatigue hinders proper technique.</div>

Yes it does. I in fact reawakened an old shoulder injury doing jerks last night. In my reading I have learned that Oly's will rest several minutes between singles. This is a strength training strategy as the motor cortex in the brain takes about 2 minutes to &quot;recuperate&quot;, the muscles taking several minutes more before they fully respond to the CNS again. Fatigue is a factor as well. I will be rereading on jerk and push press technique tonight.
 
If MS system is right. Why would anyone want to do a 10 rep set with his 10RM? It would be same fatigue, better ersults if he did 20 reps MS style with this 10RM load. Correct?

MS is around for a while? I am surprised there is no comparison in results between HST and MS.
 
<div>
(bobpit @ Jan. 25 2008,04:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">MS is around for a while? I am surprised there is no comparison in results between HST and MS.</div>
Careful! You're gonna have Dan in tears.

There has been no comparison in results because too few of us have kept the careful records necessary.
 
<div>
(bobpit @ Jan. 25 2008,04:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If MS system is right. Why would anyone want to do a 10 rep set with his 10RM? It would be same fatigue, better ersults if he did 20 reps MS style with this 10RM load. Correct?

MS is around for a while? I am surprised there is no comparison in results between HST and MS.</div>
Hypertrophy wise, the verdict is still out. Max-Stim has been around for over a year or so, but only a few people have taken it seriously. Scientific Muscle is probably the best advocate of Max-Stim outside of Dan. Coach Hale (who usually posts in the Diet &amp; Nutrition section) has a lot of ground over at the Max-Stim forum, so he may be a good person to consult.

One thing that you cannot do with Max-Stim straight up is normal work sets. People like pushing their 15/12/10/8/6/5/3 RM's. They want to do that without reracking every rep in the set. The best of both worlds is to do Max-Stim for 20 reps, and then do a standard work set via normal HST progression (or HIT, Westside, 3x3, 5x5, whatever). This way, a person gets to test their strength and optimize hypertrophy.

I for one have known about Max-Stim for a while, but this is the first time I have tried it. I am an HST addict on his 14th cycle, and my current cycle isn't even full blown Max-Stim. On my HST days, only 40% of the exercises are Max-Stim.

Just my $0.02.
tounge.gif
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The best of both worlds is to do Max-Stim for 20 reps, and then do a standard work set via normal HST progression (or HIT, Westside, 3x3, 5x5, whatever).</div>
I thought that the one set of MS per exersize, done progressively, going to well over 100% of your max WAS the entire program. Did you read something I missed?
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Jan. 25 2008,09:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The best of both worlds is to do Max-Stim for 20 reps, and then do a standard work set via normal HST progression (or HIT, Westside, 3x3, 5x5, whatever).</div>
I thought that the one set of MS per exersize, done progressively, going to well over 100% of your max WAS the entire program. Did you read something I missed?</div>
Yeah, if you are doing max-stim right you won't have the energy for a set afterward.
I can bench 205 for maybe 4 reps straight right now but I have done 20 reps with 15-20 seconds m-time recently. That was plenty! I certainly didn't need any more bench sets after that.
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Jan. 25 2008,09:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The best of both worlds is to do Max-Stim for 20 reps, and then do a standard work set via normal HST progression (or HIT, Westside, 3x3, 5x5, whatever).</div>
I thought that the one set of MS per exersize, done progressively, going to well over 100% of your max WAS the entire program. Did you read something I missed?</div>
Perhaps I said that wrong... in light of what I was saying, people who wanted to push their RM's want to do full work sets, so the best of both worlds is doing both somehow. After doing a full MS set with great form and cadence, the energy shouldn't be there for an additional full work set. With that in mind, Max-Stim and normal HST progression can be alternated in a split program like the following:

Two Week Mesocycle
A: 80% of 5RM
B: 80% of 4RM - 20 reps MS
A: 90% of 5RM
B: 90% of 4RM - 20 reps MS
A: 100% of 5RM
B: 100% of 4RM - 20 reps MS
A: Push 5RM
B: 110% of 4RM - 20 reps MS
 
As for testing Max-Stim, I have been doint it since last summer without interruption...I did not keep a log but for sure my RMs have increased amazingly and I can feel that I have more strengh than ever (looking at every day activities).

I have been training for 4 years now and my strengh and mass gains have been the most impressive since I started to use HST but even more with Max-stim.

The limiting factor is joints and tendons (I use MSM and glucosamine and it helps a lot).

Let's take an example at the bench press:

I used to have a 5RM of 75 kg with HST now Max-stim i can push 85 kg in a conventional way (=continuous reps).

That's it but I will never forget the day (last summer) when I switched to Max-stim -&gt; I gained hard rock muscle on my biceps even that I was dieting -&gt; this is quite impressive don't forget it.

wink.gif
 
<div>
(colby2152 @ Jan. 25 2008,08:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hypertrophy wise, the verdict is still out. Max-Stim has been around for over a year or so, but only a few people have taken it seriously. Scientific Muscle is probably the best advocate of Max-Stim outside of Dan.</div>
I have used Max-Stim for many months. However, I used it for a strength program rather than for hypertrophy.
 
Been doing HST several years now. I know I do a good job of micro-traumatizing my muscles.

Eating right is critical to getting gains. You tear down the muscle tissue and the nutrition builds you back bigger and stronger.

A darned simple concept.

I'm not an accountant. I don't need to know where all the pennies are, and I aint gonna look for them. This is how I equate to Max-Stim.

HST and adequate nutrition = a great combination that works.

We're just beating a dead horse.
 
<div>
(domineaux @ Jan. 25 2008,16:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm not an accountant. I don't need to know where all the pennies are, and I aint gonna look for them. This is how I equate to Max-Stim.

HST and adequate nutrition = a great combination that works.

We're just beating a dead horse.</div>
Okay, you've managed to lose me. What are you talking about?

Max-Stim is a remarkable method of controlling fatigue. It allows a significant increase in time under tension with more weight than can be lifted in straight sets. It follows the principles of HST.

What horse is it that you are beating...?
rock.gif
 
Post 54. I like what you've proposed, alternating the two programs. It would certainly keep down the boredom factor, and I think it would be similar to using HST with lowrep/highrep alternates, as some have done, only better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top