Vince This is what we have been doing whilst applying the HST principles, they have been working fairly well for us, considering those of us who are not on AAS's. But even then, Bryan in the FAQ-E-Book even covers usage of AAS+HST method, and there are two big "animals" if I can call them that...using this system to their advantage. Now that for me....and maybe for others is proof enough. You are proving Aaron right, round and round we go Surely one can agree with you to a certain extent, but to tell you the truth, swelling and soreness only really has an influence on someone who is deconditioned and then yes, it works, but after you get conditioned there is a small amount of DOMS accounting to growth, growth however keeps on happening regardless of DOMS. There are more than 90% of us HST users who can prove that to you, we don't get really sore after the 15's, maybe even the 1st week of 10's, yet we keep on growing. There is also a point where growth will slow down considerably, when one is close to one's genetic ability, past which AAS's will have to do. Here is my stopping point, as I have no intention of growing beyond my body's capacity, which means that when I get there and I will (using HST and persistance), I will look my best! Beyond that is rather an area that I do not wish to dwell in, regardless of whomever feels differently, that is my ultimate goal!