Muscle

[lievinthenow]

Simple fact in building muscle.
Activate deep muscle fiber, pump blood into muscle, and stretch.
Example: incline press, 10 rep max, 30 second rest, 8 reps, 30 second rest, 6 reps, 30 second rest, 4 reps, 30 second rest, 2 reps, (deep muscle is activated). Drop weight and rep out, (blood pumped into muscle).
Incline DB fly's two sets 20 reps, (muscle stretched).
I have used this principle with the greatest success.
HST sounds good for a neophyte.
However any hardcore bodybuilder could do that HST routine in about 15-20 minutes. When you are only doing 8 to 12 exercises, if each exercise took one minute, still you would have another twelve minutes of rest.
HST just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Lance]

Because those aren't FACTS in building muscle.

 

[lievinthenow]

Lance,
Clearly you have no understanding of how to build muscle or training.

 

[ChrisHouston]

Hmm, if you have a look at this, you'll find that you're wrong, lievinthenow.

 

[colby2152]

Good call ChrisHouston,

Lance's reply wasn't meant to sound arrogant, but they are not facts about weight training. Some of HST's theoretical principals such as progressive loading and frequent full body training are facts that have been proved by many studies and thousands of testimonials.

Quote[/b] ]Simple fact in building muscle.
Activate deep muscle fiber, pump blood into muscle, and stretch.

Okay, I'm with you there... that is more or less a simple basis of what we are doing in any type of weight training.

Quote[/b] ]Example: incline press, 10 rep max, 30 second rest, 8 reps, 30 second rest, 6 reps, 30 second rest, 4 reps, 30 second rest, 2 reps, (deep muscle is activated). Drop weight and rep out, (blood pumped into muscle).

Okay, that's a form of HIT. Don't get me wrong, you will grow off of that type of training. Any one new to weight training will grow to any type of training. Experienced lifters will grow, but the level of hypertrophy is limited due to some factors. People plateau once RBE catches up with them and/or their strength is not there.

Quote[/b] ] I have used this principle with the greatest success.

I'm sure it has worked great for you. If it has, then don't quit it until you have diminishing returns. Until then, I wouldn't be a nay-sayer of HST since you haven't tried it.

Quote[/b] ] However any hardcore bodybuilder could do that HST routine in about 15-20 minutes. When you are only doing 8 to 12 exercises, if each exercise took one minute, still you would have another twelve minutes of rest.

Hardcore like running around supersetting with no rest time? Your body would be too fatigued to support doing the latter sets of the workout. I can understand where your criticism comes from about the workout time, but most of us will not do one set per 10* exercises (* example) unless it was the most heaviest 5's or eccentrics, or for some of us, the early 15's.. depends how we handle our volume. Typical routines will have about 20 sets that last 35-45 minutes for the lighter loads and upwards to an hour for the heaviest of loads.

Once your routine starts plateauing, try using the HST principals with a correct diet, and the right selection of exercises, and you will realize that this is a solid routine.

-Colby

 

[lievinthenow]

Colby,
Thanks for your perspective.
For the most part I agree with you.
I am a personal trainer and I plan on using HST with some of my new clients. I think HST will be very effective for the neophytes.
I train myself 5 times per week, 1. chest, 2. back, 3. shoulders/ hamstrings, 4. off, 5. legs, 6. arms, 7. off...
I am 52 been training since 1983, 210lb, 10% body fat and not trying to drop any lower in body fat for now. Still making gains on basic principle, activate deep muscle fiber, pump blood into muscle and stretch muscle.
With HST, I tried it with my wife who is a bodybuilder as well. Her comment was it was aerobic, and would be good for a neophyte. However HST did not stimulate deep muscle fiber nor did it pump  enough blood into the muscle. Time elapsed 35 minutes for HST just not enough for an advanced bodybuilder.

 

[colby2152]

I'm not an advanced bodybuilder and I am unfamiliar with the term neophyte (how does that relate to mesomorph, ecto/endomorph?) There are however many advanced bodybuilders around this forum that are big and old too that use HST with success, so hopefully one of them drops by this thread.

 

[lievinthenow]

Colby,
Thanks for your perspective.


Have you ever watched Ronnie Coleman train?
I don't think he is using HST...

 

[leegee38]

L.I.T.N.,

I'm guessing you are basing your opinion on the strict adherence to the sample routine Bryan outlined. You will find that allowances are made for trainees with more experience. Ronnie Coleman doesn't use HST, but then Ronnie could grow from chewing gum with his genetics and (ahem) chemical assistance. Boris Kleine DOES train HST, and he is no small fellow.
I think the main key to HST is that studies have shown that we can probably train more frequently than we used to think and therefore maintain an anabolic enviroment without training to failure and stressing the CNS. There is nothing that says a trainer of your experience can't work up to 3-4 or even more sets per exercise if you find that suits you. I can't believe you could go thru a cycle, work out to your 5RM, do 4 sets at your 5 RM and then say it felt "aerobic". Especially if you did it 3 days that week. I've been training for 35 years and HST has helped me grow more in the last 6 months than at any other time in my life.
I think if you will probe around this site a bit, particularly in the FAQs, you might find some things that would both interest and benefit you. Thanks for your input!

 

[Totentanz]

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Quote[/b] (lievinthenow @ Jan. 03 2006,6

0)]With HST, I tried it with my wife who is a bodybuilder as well. Her comment was it was aerobic, and would be good for a neophyte. However HST did not stimulate deep muscle fiber nor did it pump enough blood into the muscle. Time elapsed 35 minutes for HST just not enough for an advanced bodybuilder.

Maybe the 15s might feel aerobic, but if the 10s, 5s and post 5s are not doing it for you then obviously you haven't done enough reading. It clearly says in the documentation that if you are never sore, are not growing, etc, that you should increase volume. It is a no brainer that someone conditioned to much higher volume will fail when they do only 1 set for each exercise, 3 days a week.

By the way, using Ronnie Coleman as an example for ANYthing is just plain silly. I could grow on anything if I was taking that much IGF, AAS and whatever else that boy is taking. I don't see how something that someone like him is doing can be applied to normal people.

 

[faz]

if your only having 30secs rest on the 5s then i dont think you are using the weight you should be anyway..maybe thats another reason it didnt work for you ..also you dont have to stick to a time limit between sets..here is something bryan put up... aAhtiainen, J.P., A. Pakarinen, M. Alen, W.J. Kraemer, and K. Häkkinen. Short vs. long rest period between the sets in hypertrophic resistance training: Influence on muscle strength, size, and hormonal adaptations in trained men. J. Strength Cond. Res. 19(3):572–582. 2005.

Acute and long-term hormonal and neuromuscular adaptations to hypertrophic strength training were studied in 13 recreationally strength-trained men. The experimental design comprised a 6-month hypertrophic strength-training period including 2 separate 3-month training periods with the crossover design, a training protocol of short rest (SR, 2 minutes) as compared with long rest (LR, 5 minutes) between the sets. Basal hormonal concentrations of serum total testosterone (T), free testosterone (FT), and cortisol ©, maximal isometric strength of the leg extensors, right leg 1 repetition maximum (1RM), dietary analysis, and muscle cross-sectional area (CSA) of the quadriceps femoris by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) were measured at months 0, 3, and 6. The 2 hypertrophic training protocols used in training for the leg extensors (leg presses and squats with 10RM sets) were also examined in the laboratory conditions at months 0, 3, and 6. The exercise protocols were similar with regard to the total volume of work (loads × sets × reps), but differed with regard to the intensity and the length of rest between the sets (higher intensity and longer rest of 5 minutes vs. somewhat lower intensity but shorter rest of 2 minutes). Before and immediately after the protocols, maximal isometric force and electromyographic (EMG) activity of the leg extensors were measured and blood samples were drawn for determination of serum T, FT, C, and growth hormone (GH) concentrations and blood lactate. Both protocols before the experimental training period (month 0) led to large acute increases (p < 0.05–0.001) in serum T, FT, C , and GH concentrations, as well as to large acute decreases (p < 0.05–0.001) in maximal isometric force and EMG activity. However, no significant differences were observed between the protocols. Significant increases of 7% in maximal isometric force, 16% in the right leg 1RM, and 4% in the muscle CSA of the quadriceps femoris were observed during the 6-month strength-training period. However, both 3-month training periods performed with either the longer or the shorter rest periods between the sets resulted in similar gains in muscle mass and strength. No statistically significant changes were observed in basal hormone concentrations or in the profiles of acute hormonal responses during the entire 6-month experimental training period. The present study indicated that, within typical hypertrophic strength-training protocols used in the present study, the length of the recovery times between the sets (2 vs. 5 minutes) did not have an influence on the magnitude of acute hormonal and neuromuscular responses or long-term training adaptations in muscle strength and mass in previously strength-trained men.

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (colby2152 @ Jan. 04 2006,12:11)]I'm not an advanced bodybuilder and I am unfamiliar with the term neophyte (how does that relate to mesomorph, ecto/endomorph?) There are however many advanced bodybuilders around this forum that are big and old too that use HST with success, so hopefully one of them drops by this thread.

4 entries found for neophyte.
ne·o·phyte Audio pronunciation of "neophyte" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-ft)
n.

1. A recent convert to a belief; a proselyte.
2. A beginner or novice: a neophyte at politics.
3.
1. Roman Catholic Church. A newly ordained priest.
2. A novice of a religious order or congregation.

 

[lievinthenow]

Thank you all for your perspectives.
Question: Is it possible that you could split HST into a 5 day instead of a three day routine?
And if so what would that split look like?

AS for using Ronnie Coleman as an example. Wouldn't logic follow that if HST works then it would work even better on someone like Ronnie?

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (lievinthenow @ Jan. 04 2006,11:50)]Thank you all for your perspectives.
Question: Is it possible that you could split HST into a 5 day instead of a three day routine?

Yes, as there is only a sample program, you can set it up whatever way you want

Quote[/b] ]And if so what would that split look like?

Whatever way you wnat to use it, that still matches with the principles.

Quote[/b] ]AS for using Ronnie Coleman as an example. Wouldn't logic follow that if HST works then it would work even better on someone like Ronnie?

Ronnie's training utilizes the HST principles, so how is he not training HST?

 

[lievinthenow]

Thanks for your perspective.
Actually Ronnie is using a Double-X Overload technique .
DOX... Jay Cutler uses it as well.

DXO technique between every rep can triple the effectiveness of some exercises. For example, on cable upright rows, there’s a natural tendency to disengage your delts at the bottom, arms-extended position; however, when you double pump there, doing an X Rep between each full rep, the continuous, rapid-fire action keeps the delts locked in. Oh, and you extend the tension time.
Talk about feeling the muscle! The X-Rep pause/pulses build on the burn because they maintain tension on the target muscle right at the X Spot. The muscle isn’t resting, it’s screaming! That muscle burn can increase growth hormone production, which can burn bodyfat and increase muscle.

One of the most eye-opening observations is that the top two bodybuilders in the world rely heavily on partial reps. Why partials? For loads of continuous tension and a controlled explosion at the max-force point on the stroke—the X Spot near the turnaround.
Ronnie Coleman, uses half reps on bench presses. That allows him to pile on heavy weight, blast out of the bottom semistretched position, the X Spot, and keep max tension on his pecs throughout the set. If you’ve ever analyzed the bench press, you no doubt realize that the top of the stroke is mostly triceps and front delts. That means it’s very easy to lose touch with your pecs once you move the bar past halfway.
HST princples are not employed by Ronnie or Jay Cutler.
Sorry guy but they are way beyond HST...

 

[colby2152]

You're talking about rep and set customization techniques. Partials, pulses, metabollic sets, static holds, Jreps?, blowreps (haha), ACIT, DXO, yada yada all fall in the category and can be done with HST. HST isn't a program, but it is a set of principals designed for you to build your routine.

 

[joseph63]

I can't pay much attention to anyone who thinks Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler look the way they do because of a special, secret way they hold the bar, twist their wrist, squeeze at the top of the lift, disengage their delts...geez

 

[Totentanz]

Quote[/b] (joseph63 @ Jan. 05 2006,9:05)]I can't pay much attention to anyone who thinks Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler look the way they do because of a special, secret way they hold the bar, twist their wrist, squeeze at the top of the lift, disengage their delts...geez

Right. Because with how much they are on and the kind of genetics they have, they can do pretty much anything and they will grow. Some people seem to forget that for us mere mortals, we have to train in a more sane and rational manner.

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (lievinthenow @ Jan. 05 2006,3:38)]Thanks for your perspective.

<snip garbage>

Sorry guy but they are way beyond HST...

thanks for not understanding a single thing of what I said.


You are looking at the program and avoiding the principles.

but thanks for playing

 

[lievinthenow]

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Quote[/b] (joseph63 @ Jan. 05 2006,9

5)]I can't pay much attention to anyone who thinks Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler look the way they do because of a special, secret way they hold the bar, twist their wrist, squeeze at the top of the lift, disengage their delts...geez

Clearly you lack the ablity to learn from others who are succesful as bodybuilders, Ronnnie Coleman is a successful bodybuilder and he started just like you and me pal, in the gym..... Open your eyes you might learn something new....