My cycle, tweaked, comments needed!

[Deyasin]

Hello,

My name is Yasin, 20yo, i've been browsing these forums for about a year now, did 3 cycles of traditional HST which gave me good results.
Now i've deconditioned for 10 days, and i started my first day of 15 reps yesterday.
Always been very happy about the HST principles & it's results. But because this is my 4th cycle i wanted to change some things.

Me & my trainingpartner like to train six days a week, so i changed my cycle to this:

Day 1:
Dumbell Press
Incline Bench Press
Dips
Triceps rope pushdown (from time to time adding a set of skull crushers)
Upright Row
Lateral Raises
Lat Pulldown
Seated Row
Bicep curls

Day 2:Front Squats (normal squats hurt my knees)
Deadlifts
Leg extension machine
Weighted ab crunches
Hanging leg raises
Abductor+adductor machine
Calf raises on smith machine

So it would be: Day1-Day2-Day1-Day2-Day1-Day2-Rest -> repeat, and i will take more rest when i feel i need to

Why like this? Because we like to train 6 times a week, AND my legs are definitely lacking mass.
I haven't seen anyone training like this on the forum, so i am probably missing a point so that's why i'm posting it.
Can this work? I'm still training every muscle 3 times a week + progressive overload etc etc

Stats & nutrition:I'm currently at 70 kg, started 2 years ago at 50 kg. Lifting is not my life, i have lost quite a few kg's going to festivals and other parties, still young and have no interest in becoming a bodybuilder or professional lifter or anything like that.
I'm as ecto as anyone can be, eat 3200 kcal a day, 55 % Carbs, 25 % proteine, 20 % fats.
I've tried altering these, began with 40-30-30 but increasing carbs definitely gave me good results, still pretty lean.
I think my rest metabolism is very very high.
Also my chest is lacking that's why i incorporated 3 chest excercises.

That's about it! Constructive critiscm is more then welcome! Last but not least, English is not my first language, so excuse the grammar.
Cheers!

 

[faz]

its fine to do an A B routine,im not sure how good that one is TBH,i certainly wouldnt do the exercises in that order.

 

[lxh89]

I did the 6-day split my last HST cycle. Worked great for me and really let me focus all my energy to either upper body or lower body. As for your routine, I'd change the following: Drop Incline Bench and replace with Standing Military or Push Press (you'll workout your core too meaning more efficient exercise) Drop the triceps pushdown - you have 3 compound exercises already hitting the triceps Drop lat pull down for chinups or pull-ups (preferably pull-ups). If you can't do those, get bands to assist or find an assist pull-up machine Drop the leg extensions - your hitting quads hard with deadlifts and front squats already. You'll just create a muscle imbalance since you're doing nothing for hamstrings directly. Might explain why back squats hurt your knees or if you aren't going below parallel in the squat. You should add leg curls or stiff legged deadlifts for hamstrings. Front squats and deadlifts will also hit your abs good, especially the obliques (side ab muscle) on deadlifts. You can leave the ab routine you have but if you run out of steam or have bad days, just skip them that day. I guarantee it wont hurt your progress. Deadlifts brutally hit abs and lower back.

Hello, Day 1: Dumbell Press Incline Bench Press Dips Triceps rope pushdown (from time to time adding a set of skull crushers) Upright Row Lateral Raises Lat Pulldown Seated Row Bicep curls Day 2:Front Squats (normal squats hurt my knees) Deadlifts Leg extension machine Weighted ab crunches Hanging leg raises Abductor+adductor machine Calf raises on smith machine

 

[adpowah]

If back squats are hurting your knees I would guess the most likely culprit is your form. Your knees might be tracking over your toes causing the discomfort. If you are interested in doing the back squats without the knee pain probably post a video of you doing the lift from the side but in a position where the weights don't obscure your knee/hip positioning but the full movement can still be seen.

 

[Deyasin]

I did the 6-day split my last HST cycle. Worked great for me and really let me focus all my energy to either upper body or lower body. As for your routine, I'd change the following: Drop Incline Bench and replace with Standing Military or Push Press (you'll workout your core too meaning more efficient exercise) Drop the triceps pushdown - you have 3 compound exercises already hitting the triceps Drop lat pull down for chinups or pull-ups (preferably pull-ups). If you can't do those, get bands to assist or find an assist pull-up machine Drop the leg extensions - your hitting quads hard with deadlifts and front squats already. You'll just create a muscle imbalance since you're doing nothing for hamstrings directly. Might explain why back squats hurt your knees or if you aren't going below parallel in the squat. You should add leg curls or stiff legged deadlifts for hamstrings. Front squats and deadlifts will also hit your abs good, especially the obliques (side ab muscle) on deadlifts. You can leave the ab routine you have but if you run out of steam or have bad days, just skip them that day. I guarantee it wont hurt your progress. Deadlifts brutally hit abs and lower back.

Thanks for the reply, i forgot to mention I'm doing lying leg curls and i left out the leg extension. Als my day 2 (legs) is Very short, and upper body takes a bit too long, which excercices can i move to day 2? I was thinking back but a bit afraid this would hurt my chest excercices like dumbell press?

Btw, why does everybody here discourage chest isolation Excercices like chest cable flyes?

Thanks again

 

[Deyasin]

I did the 6-day split my last HST cycle. Worked great for me and really let me focus all my energy to either upper body or lower body. As for your routine, I'd change the following: Drop Incline Bench and replace with Standing Military or Push Press (you'll workout your core too meaning more efficient exercise) Drop the triceps pushdown - you have 3 compound exercises already hitting the triceps Drop lat pull down for chinups or pull-ups (preferably pull-ups). If you can't do those, get bands to assist or find an assist pull-up machine Drop the leg extensions - your hitting quads hard with deadlifts and front squats already. You'll just create a muscle imbalance since you're doing nothing for hamstrings directly. Might explain why back squats hurt your knees or if you aren't going below parallel in the squat. You should add leg curls or stiff legged deadlifts for hamstrings. Front squats and deadlifts will also hit your abs good, especially the obliques (side ab muscle) on deadlifts. You can leave the ab routine you have but if you run out of steam or have bad days, just skip them that day. I guarantee it wont hurt your progress. Deadlifts brutally hit abs and lower back.

Thanks for the reply, i forgot to mention I'm doing lying leg curls and i left out the leg extension. Als my day 2 (legs) is Very short, and upper body takes a bit too long, which excercices can i move to day 2? I was thinking back but a bit afraid this would hurt my chest excercices like dumbell press?

Btw, why does everybody here discourage chest isolation Excercices like chest cable flyes?

Thanks again

 

[gbglifter]

Most here agree that compound exercises are superior for building a solid workout. Flyes are an isolation. I do flies now and again but I dont track progress, I just use it to get in some higher reps for my pecs. You cant build a routine around isos IMO. The only regular isos I do is legext and legcurl, again higher reps.

 

[Sci]

Flyes are cool. I get a great contraction of the pecs on the fly machine.
However, I find dips and barbell bench presses (flat, incline and decline) to be the most effective for pecs. Also convenient as you get a lot if tricep and even some front deltoid strain during chest compounds.
So, I like Flyes, but I find dips and bench presses to be plenty for the chest muscles, as well as triceps (and front delts, especially 45 incline bench).

More bang for the buck with compounds. But isolations are fine too, especially if you have a weak muscle you are trying to specialize on.

 

[Jester]

Flyes are quite dangerous at their relative heavy loads, in addition to not being a particularly good mass builder. They feel great, no doubt, but feeling =/= result, unfortunately

I think their best, and perhaps only useful purpose is for high-rep, metabolic work. The danger is removed, they aren't supplanting a devastatingly more effective compound, and you still get the satisfying feeling that your chest is about to tear your t-shirt in half from the pump.

 

[Deyasin]

Thanks for the reply, i forgot to mention I'm doing lying leg curls and i left out the leg extension. Als my day 2 (legs) is Very short, and upper body takes a bit too long, which excercices can i move to day 2? I was thinking back but a bit afraid this would hurt my chest excercices like dumbell press?

Also, for my next cycle i plan to do some other excercices, standing military press like lxh89 said. Also are dumbell pullovers a good compound?

3 excercices didnt work so well for my lacking chest? What can i do? I cant train twice a day or more, i would if i could but school/work prevents me from it

 

[gbglifter]

I split upper and lower too. If I feel Ive got energy over then I may do military afterwards. Then skip military the day after on my upper day. I dont feel this affects my ability on the presses the day after.

Re your chest: what have you been doing for that?

 

[Deyasin]

gbglifter, i have been doing (slightly) decline dumbell press, incline bench press and weighted chest dips. Some days i add some upper chest cable flyes to it.

I'm deconditioning till thursday right now. Lowered the chest excercices again and will up the sets. Hope it helps!

 

[gbglifter]

Just keep plugging away. Time+effort=results.

 

[Jester]

Dumbbell pullovers are just 'ok'. You need perfect form on them, or else you won't be working the lats satisfactorily.

I think you energy might be better spent doing chins. If you were doing them for the chest, then probably just incline benching or dips is where you want to be looking.

 

[Totentanz]

For what it's worth, I know two different people who've been seriously injured doing DB pullovers.

 

[Deyasin]

Alright, no pullovers Do you maybe have any other comments Totentanz?

 

[Totentanz]

More exercises don't necessarily mean you will focus on that bodypart more. I think you need to trim back how many lifts you are doing, make the routine more abbreviated if you plan to lift every day. Don't work the abs. Your compound lifts will work your core sufficiently. All that working the abs will do is cause them to grow, which will make your midsection thicker. This is not an aesthetic that most people want.

Day 1:
Dumbell Press - switch this to BB Bench press, DBs are too much of a pain in the ass if you ever want to go heavy. I've seen more injuries in people getting heavy DBs into position for this lift than I have seen injuries from barbell bench pressing.
Incline Bench Press - do this one OR dips, not both. Waste of time, won't make you grow more in your chest doing all three
Dips
Triceps rope pushdown (from time to time adding a set of skull crushers) - this is a useless exercise. Do close grip bench instead.
Upright Row - what are you trying to target with this? if shoulders, then replace with military press, upright rows aren't that great because form is harder to maintain
Lateral Raises - drop these, form is impossible to maintain when going heavy so they are inappropriate for an HST cycle unless you are only adding them in for high rep metabolic work AFTER your heavy work
Lat Pulldown - keep. consider weighted chins instead if possible.
Seated Row - keep. consider doing pendlay rows possibly instead
Bicep curls - these are OK but not necessary

Day 2:
Front Squats (normal squats hurt my knees)
Deadlifts - drop if you are doing squats, do stiff leg or romanian deads instead
Leg extension machine - keep these and add in leg curls as well
Weighted ab crunches - there is no point in doing these, drop it
Hanging leg raises - this is another useless exercise, drop it
Abductor+adductor machine - reason why you want to do these? No real point. Drop these.
Calf raises on smith machine - you don't have a machine for standing or seated calf raises? Add in a second calf exercise. Do one standing and one seated.

So your routine should look more like this:

DAY 1:
Flat Bench
Seated or Pendlay Rows
Incline Bench OR dips
Pulldowns or Weighted chins
Military Press
Close Grip Bench
Curls

Day 2:
Squats
Romanian Deadlift
Leg Extension
Leg Curl
Standing Calf Raise
Seated Calf Raise

 

[Deyasin]

More exercises don't necessarily mean you will focus on that bodypart more. I think you need to trim back how many lifts you are doing, make the routine more abbreviated if you plan to lift every day. Don't work the abs. Your compound lifts will work your core sufficiently. All that working the abs will do is cause them to grow, which will make your midsection thicker. This is not an aesthetic that most people want.

Thanks for the quick and complete post, you say i need to make the routine shorter, is this because of possible chance of injury or will a longer workout really hamper my gains? If the first, i have trained like this for about a year now and haven't got any injuries, i ask this because i actually like to train a bit longer and it satisfies me more..
Also what about bodyweight ab work? The leg day is really short and i like a good mid-section (especially now with the summer coming ).
Or maybe just one day per week? Then another question if you say its better to drop it, can i move back & biceps to the leg day or will this hamper my chest excercises the next day? Chest is really the priority because it really grows very slowly, my back on the other hand grows very fast and causes my chest to look even

Triceps rope pushdown (from time to time adding a set of skull crushers) - this is a useless exercise. Do close grip bench instead.
Upright Row - what are you trying to target with this? if shoulders, then replace with military press, upright rows aren't that great because form is harder to maintain
Lateral Raises - drop these, form is impossible to maintain when going heavy so they are inappropriate for an HST cycle unless you are only adding them in for high rep metabolic work AFTER your heavy work

I'm doing the cycle already, so most stuff you say will be for my next cycle, i've been doing close grip bench and no triceps isolation a few cycle ago, but my triceps just didnt grow, in my opinion close grip bench doesnt really activate all 3 heads of the tricep.. Any thoughts? I wen't for cable pushdowns and this seems to be working out, still doing a skull crusher now and then (not everytime to prevent elbow joint injury). I'm doing standing military press and lat raises eventually, but if you say lat raises arent good, how do i target the back of the shoulders? something like rear delt machine maybe?

Calf raises on smith machine - you don't have a machine for standing or seated calf raises? Add in a second calf exercise. Do one standing and one seated.

We just got a 45 ° seated calf raise machine, i'm doing this but it only goes up to 145 kg, and my 5rm is like 180 kg on the smith machine..


Again thanks for the response Peace

 

[Totentanz]

Thanks for the quick and complete post, you say i need to make the routine shorter, is this because of possible chance of injury or will a longer workout really hamper my gains? If the first, i have trained like this for about a year now and haven't gt any injuries, i ask this because i actually like to train a bit longer and it satisfies me more..

It had nothing to do with risk of injury and everything to do with having a clear focus. More work does not necessarily equal superior results. Instead of trying to do a million things, you need to pick your priorities and focus on those. You said that chest and legs are your priorities. So rather than do a thousand reps per week for the entire body, you need to trim it down and just keep a little extra on chest and legs. The routine I outlined for you to do would do exactly that.

Also what about bodyweight ab work? The leg day is really short and i like a good mid-section (especially now with the summer coming ).

That's not how the body works. Working your abs isn't going to give you a six pack. You can cut down while doing zero ab work and get a good six pack. You can bulk up and do all the ab work you want, your abs are still going to disappear. Ab work will make your abs bigger and so your mid section will look thicker, not leaner. This is not the look most people want.
Getting good ab definition is a function of bodyfat levels and not how much work you do on the abs.

Or maybe just one day per week? Then another question if you say its better to drop it, can i move back & biceps to the leg day or will this hamper my chest excercises the next day? Chest is really the priority because it really grows very slowly, my back on the other hand grows very fast and causes my chest to look even

Just pretend you never wrote this part.

I'm doing the cycle already, so most stuff you say will be for my next cycle, i've been doing close grip bench and no triceps isolation a few cycle ago, but my triceps just didnt grow, in my opinion close grip bench doesnt really activate all 3 heads of the tricep.. Any thoughts?

Check your form. In your opinion, close grip doesn't work but opinion is irrelevant when compared to facts. See the exrx page: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/BBCloseGripBenchPress.html As you can see, close grip primarily targets the triceps. So if your triceps didn't grow then there are a number of things that went wrong: you weren't eating enough, your form wasn't good, you didn't go heavy enough, you were doing too much volume on other lifts, etc.

Keep in mind that the muscles in the arm are tiny and so they take a lot longer to grow appreciably compared to a much larger muscle group like pecs, quads or the back muscles. You don't see 70kg guys walking around with huge arms unless they are using synthol or are approximately 5 feet 2 inches tall. This is because they will pretty much never grow wildly out of proportion with the rest of the body. Get larger and your arms will get larger too.

I wen't for cable pushdowns and this seems to be working out, still doing a skull crusher now and then (not everytime to prevent elbow joint injury).

Pushdowns are a cheater exercise. You will never be able to maintain proper form during the 5s and eventually it turns into a lift targetting the erectors for most people. Also not real great on the elbows when you go heavy. It is always better to use a lift where you can maintain form as the loads get high, that way you are still targeting the correct muscles. Pushdowns are good for higher rep work after you do the heavy stuff, but they are inappropriate as a primary lift for triceps. Do your heavy stuff on close grip bench then do high rep pushdowns afterwards to get metabolic work in.

Skulls are ok but can be hard on the elbows as well, although if you are willing to do heavy pushdowns, I'm not sure why you're worried about skulls on your elbows. The strain on the elbows is similar, so it doesn't make sense to be worried about one but not the other.

Have you tried dips yet? Seated dips are great for triceps but you can do regular dips and remain more upright to better target triceps as well.

I'm doing standing military press and lat raises eventually, but if you say lat raises arent good, how do i target the back of the shoulders? something like rear delt machine maybe?

Again, focus on what needs priority. You need to focus on chest and legs, not the rear delts. Anyway, rows and other back exercises usually use the posterior delts as synergists at the very least and that should be sufficient for such a tiny, insignificant muscle. You do realize it is kind of silly to work such a small muscle where there is plenty of overlap from the compound lifts, right? Do you target your neck muscles? Do you get on the abduction machine to work your inner thigh muscles? Do you do lifts to target the serratus? No, because that doesn't make sense and all of that gets at least some work from compounds you are doing anyway. So don't waste time on tiny muscles that are already getting worked anyway.

Also, I didn't say lateral raises aren't good. I said they are not good to use when you go heavy because form is difficult to maintain. They are fine for higher rep work.

We just got a 45 ° seated calf raise machine, i'm doing this but it only goes up to 145 kg, and my 5rm is like 180 kg on the smith machine..

I would petition the gym to get more than one calf machine and to get one that is plate loaded. Stack calf machines are a waste of time.

In the meantime, I would advise you to keep using the seated one and just do a higher rep range for calves.

 

[Jester]

Stack a BB on your back and do standing calf raises. You don't need a machine.