My Forearms are Killing Me

B

bgates1654

New Member
I think it started when I progressed weighted close grip underhand chinups. The combination of heavy chins and DB curls seems to have given me "forearm splints" or something. I couldnt finish my 3rd set of DB curls, but I switched to overhand close grip on the chins and that seemed to work fine. Is it alright to work through this pain? I think its just supposed to be small stress fractures or something like that. I could feel some minor pain along the ulna jsut picking up a full gallon jug of water though.
 
IMO, a couple of things. I know you're not a noob, so you know your workload requirements for smaller muscles, especially biceps, which are easy to overtrain for some. (tri's for me)
So, you have two ways you're hitting them which a.) could be a bit much volume in whatever program you're doing, or, b.) you may have jumped into weighted chins without prepping for chins at all, or, c.) just as I damaged my wrists, you may need a wider grip for chins. I think 8" between the hands is a recommendation.

I'd suggest for now, to find which exersize doesn't hurt and try doing only that for a while if you must continue bicep work, gripping as little as possible, like curls with the bar or d/b's just laying in your hands. Then readjust the routine when you've healed.
 
My solution for the wrists:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin....t=13085
Aaack! I just noticed that you'd said you switched from chins to pullups; you just didn't call them that, so you've allready done one thing to help the situation; but pullups are a lat exersize, the chins are hitting the biceps more. That took care of your forearm problem, evidently, but comparing apples to oranges, you are doing virtually a completely different exersize.
Oh, and if you still have problems, there is always stretching, ice and heat, and massage, of course.
 
a) Volume could be high.  I did a 1/2/3 set schedule this time.  Its one set more than my last bulk.

b) No I progressed with a chin assist.

c) I have been using about a 12inch width.  I was under the impression that that was close grip.

The pull ups seem to only illicit minor pain as opposed to almost exercise-halting pain, so I am gonna see how this works out for me.  I am also going to reduce curls from 3 sets to 2 sets.  If the pain gets worse I will drop bicep work altogether.

I have noticed that most of the pain occurs when my forearms are vertical with the DB and a bit beyond to rest on the should (I am doing inclines).  When I stopped before vertical and did not completely deloaded the bicep, the pain was much more managable.  I will have to try to light grip approach.

I cant really tell the difference between chins and pull ups. They are both primarily lat exercises, but I agree the chins hit the bis more. It is why I originally chose it for when I was cutting, since I had cut out curls. I also did underhand deads and BB row to help out a bit more. Even though I was doing those exercises underhand in an attempt to hit the bis, they didnt work as well as simply curling.  Maybe I just cant chin enough compared to what I can curl.  It wouldnt surprise me that that is the issue.

There really isnt any pain in the wrists.  Its all located along the ulna running from about a quarter of the way up from the wrist to a quarter of the way to the elbow.  So its all pretty much right in the middle.
 
Take a couple of weeks off. I know this sucks, but my friend got the same thing from doing preacher curls. I told him to take a few weeks off from lifting and then when he got back...quit all curling (or at least quit preacher curls) and just do chin-ups. IT WORKED, he listened to me, took the time off, healed up and now he is fine and he has totally quit preacher curls.
Also I have read incline curls can be dangerous too...I personally have never had a problem with any chins or curls. Though for awhile dead-lifts and chins were doing some damage to my elbow-forearm tie-in, but that went away as I got stronger and my tendons adapted.
 
Actually the type of curl I do is a mildly modified incline zottman curls.  It starts as a regular curl and as it goes up becomes a hammer curl.  The palm is turned away on the negative. I do this until I cannot control the negative, then do regular/hammer curls.

Strict hammer gives me pain.  Palm up or palm down lessens the pain.  

The pullups didnt bother my forearms at all.

2 sets of curls today still sucked.  If there was a difference it was negligable.  I am gonna give it till next week after my 2 day break.  If it hasnt gotten better I am dropping curls.

I have only a couple of weeks left so I am gonna stick it out with or without curls.  I am now just starting to push myself for this cycle.  I'd like to see some decent strength gains.
 
I've had trouble with medial epicondilitis, (golfer's elbow) and the wrists. I no longer do preachers, and any curls I do, I DO NOT extend fully anymore, and that has helped me greatly, as well as gripping as little as possible. I'm finally doing 115+ curls and still coming up without pain. Your Zlottmanns are reversed I think. I did them with a hammer at the bottom and regular supinated curl at the top. I wonder if that wouldn't make a difference in your forearms? It would certainly hit them differently.
Now I wanna go and try it YOUR way and see what that feels like!
laugh.gif
 
It sounds like some sort of epicondylitis, i.e. tennis elbow (lateral epicondylitits), or golfer's elbow (medial epicondylitis).

I had a similar problem in October, and some experienced BBers said it's most likely the underhand chins. Apparently they end up injuring lots of people - the chins, I mean, not the experienced BBers.

The solution was to take a break from lifting, and not do underhand chins anymore. The pain went after about ten days of no lifting. I haven't done underhanded chins since I came back, and haven't had any elbow pain since.

I have done other exercises with curling motion since, though - Hammer curls, preacher curls, underhand bent-over rows, cable curls (not all on the same day, though) - and that has all been fine.
 
When your arms are hyperextended and you are pulling, your muscles are no longer controlling your movement, the tendons around your joints are working to get you up to the point where the muscles take over and finish the movement.  This is common on preacher curls for the elbows, chinups for both elbows and forearms, and sometimes bench press for forearms when your arms are hyper extended and you are unracking the weight.  

Working through the pain never fixes anything.  Adjust your ROM so that on chins you are never hyper extended and allow your tendons to heal.  It's far easier to hyper extend the elbows using underhanded grip then it is with overhanded.
 
Great advice steve. I will pay attention to that during chins and stuff.
Also I wanted to mention that close-grip underhand chins on a straight bar can put enormous strain on the wrists. The reason being that the elbows have to go out to go down and back, while the elbows go out, the hands stay 'in' on the bar and the wrists have to bend sideways to accomodate. What I have been doing to avoid the wrist bending, is to place my hands farther apart, slightly closer than shoulder-width. Or another idea- Quadancer solved this by building a handle which is angled so that the wrists do not have to bend.
 
Ive gotten the same problem in the last week of my previous 2 HST cycles.

The first time I was doing negatives on preacher curls. I just stopped doing them the last week of the cycle.

The second was just 10 days ago doing bicep curls with an easy curl bar (inside easy grip). I noticed some sort of a shift in my forearm muscles followed by pain. Not sure how to explain it. First one went, then the other.

I think its just a strength issue in my forearms and that from doing SLDL, bent over rows, and curls they just get worn out by the end.

I hope eventually they will catch up to my loads and stop sucking the last few workouts.
 
I had this problem and fixed it by:

1 - Eliminating curls for a while specially Straight Bar Curls, eventually all curls for a spell.

2 - Read about therapy exercises and did some RICE (rest, ice, compression, elevation), some of the exercises that helped me were taking a d/b loaded on one end only (small weight) and while keeping your forearm on your knee (while sitting, leg bent) rotating the d/b to the left and to the right while keeping the forearm locked, also wrist curls, both reverse and normal grip.

3 - Got a Elbow brace and I still use it sometimes, I get a slight pain while doing deads.

Here's some more advice:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Set aside some time weekly to train the non-beach muscles, like the small muscles of the forearm. This will lessen the chances of tennis elbow occurring. It is not a pleasant experience.

By: Virtual Muscle

&quot;Tennis elbow?&quot; you may ask. &quot;What does tennis elbow have to do with me? I'm a weight-trainer!&quot; Well, don't be fooled by the term. Tennis elbow is an all-too common affliction suffered by hardcore bodybuilders / strength athletes.

When Science Editor Lonnie and I talked about presenting this piece to VM readers, its message took on a whole new intensity of importance: Fortress is suffering from what he believes is &quot;tennis elbow&quot;. And believe me, it's very annoying and uncomfortable. So do yourself a favor and read on. Every serious weight-trainer - male and female - needs the information presented.

Robert &quot;Fortress&quot; Fortney, Managing Editor
What is lateral epicondylitis (tennis elbow) and what are its symptoms?

Lateral epicondylitis - or &quot;tennis elbow&quot; - is the most common affliction of the elbow, affecting athletes who frequently perform repetitive motions. Dorland's Medical Dictionary (28th edition, pg.564) describes epicondylitis as an inflammation of the epicondyle, or of the tissues adjoining the epicondyle of the humerus.

So, what does all this mean? Simply put, it is an irritation of the small muscles of the forearm at the elbow. There is usually moderate to severe tenderness to touch over the lateral elbow. Pain is usually experienced with resistance to extension of the wrist. There is not a specific incident that initiated the pain although there are daily activities that may increase the pain.

In the early stages there is little to no swelling over the area. In more severe cases there is often pain when picking up small objects or turning a doorknob. Even in these advanced stages the inflammation is rarely visible. Pain may be localized at the elbow and shoot down the forearm and into the hand. There may also be a noticeable decrease in grip strength associated with the pain.

How does epicondylitis develop?

Although it is termed &quot;tennis elbow&quot;, epicondylitis affects all types of athletes. Most commonly it affects those who have a repetitive motion involved in their sport or who have heavy objects to grasp. Strength athletes incorporate both of these tasks into their performance and most often they are occurring in conjunction with each other.  

The repetitive motions that seem to do the most damage are the motions of supination and pronation as would be required with alternating dumbbell curls. This injury can also be progressed by lifting an object that is too heavy and, therefore, requiring the forearm extensors to overwork. Over a period of time, micro-trauma to the area accumulates and causes inflammation and pain to develop at the elbow.

Poor form may also play a role in placing the forearm in a poor biomechanical position and, therefore, forcing the forearm muscle to work out of the optimal range. Overall, it is usually a combination of all of these factors that contribute to development of the injury. We all do it now and then; you know, you become tired and form goes right out the window.

How can I treat and relieve my pain?

First and foremost, see your primary care physician and / or your physical therapist if you are experiencing elbow pain so that an accurate diagnosis of the problem can be made. This is an injury that can become chronic and debilitating unless proper treatment is sought - and sought early. In the meantime…ice, ice, and then more ice! That's right, ladies and gentlemen, when in doubt, ice it. Use of ice immediately after your workouts and 2-3 more times throughout the day can help to decrease the inflammation. Also, use of your anti-inflammatory medication of choice may help with the pain and keep you lifting.

Stretches for the wrist extensors should be performed 4-5 times daily and should be held at the point of stretch but not to the point of pain. Completely stopping the activity causing the pain is only necessary if the conservative treatment described above is not improving the condition. Interestingly, Immobilization is only appropriate for a short period of time and may actually worsen the condition.

Exercises should be initiated to begin to build-up the wrist extensors to allow them to handle the demands being placed on them by heavy lifting. Yes, sometimes the only thing that will allow an injury to heal is proper rest. This means taking a week off from lifting completely (which is not always a bad thing, anyway). You may also need to decrease the weight used on your lifts. It is important to be aware if you are sacrificing form to increase the poundage used in a lift. Pay attention to your form! You may be doing harm by simply using poor technique.

Progression of your exercise program is also another important consideration. I understand the desire for quick gains, but gains come with hard work, dedication and lots of time. Progress slowly and with perfect form as you increase the weight of your lift. In most situations, for a beginner, a good rule of thumb is, if you cannot perform at least six repetitions of any specific movement with good form, then the weight is probably too heavy.

Lastly, you may want to consider assistant / supportive devices, such as forearm straps and wrist wraps, to take some of the stress off your extensor tendons of the forearm. In rare and very severe cases, corticosteroid injections and surgery may need to be utilized to give some relief of symptoms. These should only be options after all other treatments have failed.

How do I keep this from being a chronic problem?

As mentioned previously, don't sacrifice form for any weight. Be disciplined with form and it will pay off in the long run. Secondly, don't forget to train the small muscle groups of the upper extremity such as the rotator cuff and the scapular muscles. These muscle groups are often neglected and lead to misuse and overuse of the extensor tendons of the forearm to counteract early fatigue of the rotator cuff and the small scapular muscles during heavy lifting.

Make sure that you set aside some time weekly to train the &quot;non-beach muscles&quot;, like the small muscles of the forearm. It is important to maintain a good rehabilitation program of stretching and strengthening for an extended period of time once symptoms have dissipated. Also, use appropriate supportive wraps such as wrist and forearm straps to provide protection during heavy lifts. And last, don't forget to ice an injury at the first signs of irritation. This may keep a minor injury from developing into something more severe.

Thanks,

[email protected]
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I have wonder if using an EZ curl bar for chins would help. If you have one, build a make-shift chin station with it and try different grip angles to see if any of them work better than others.
 
Eto: that's a pretty standard adjustment, used by many. By having the fists in line with the forearms, it spreads the load over all the tendons, so, yes.

Fausto: I had to laugh at the beginning of that article! When I found out I had &quot;golfer's elbow&quot; (medial epicondilitis), I thought, HUH??? Never golfed in my life!
wow.gif
 
I have had the same problem before. Forearm was hurting, it felt like splints.

Nothing rest (SD) can't take care of for you.
 
The pain was fading even while I continued lifting, but I have ended my cycle becuase both of my elbows ached after the last workout. You can check out my results in the &quot;Your results with HST&quot; thread in the HST section. I am looking forward to this SD.
 
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