Not gaining muscle?  This is why.

Here was my actual diet today for anyone interested.

meal 1: 5PM
2 cups raisin bran w/ skim milk
2 scoops protein in skim milk

meal 2: 8PM
12oz steak
3 red potatoes

meal 3: 10:30PM
2 scoops protein in milk
2 tbsp peanut butter

meal 4: 1:30 AM
2 cans of tuna with light mayo on multi-grain bread

meal 5: 4 AM
2 chicken breasts
a decent amount of rice

meal 6: 8:00 AM
2 scoops protein in water

BEDTIME


Pretty light night foodwise. Yes, I work night shift. Yes, I pretty much get to eat whenever I want. it rules. Yes, my bodyfat is decreasing because I am not having any carbs before bed (about 4 hours) and because I do morning cardio on an empty stomach (down 5g of bcaa's first). Weird, huh?
 
Nothin' weird about it, pretty well drawn out IMO.

Only weird thing was the times but you've covered that, I am glad I don't have to, many lab colleagues do and I feel sorry for them.
 
Here's some guidelines: Dr. Berardi's

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">1) Eat every 2-3 hours.
2) Ingest complete, lean protein each time you eat.
3) Ingest vegetables every time you eat.
4) If want to lose fat, be sure that you save starchy carbohydrate intake until after you’ve exercised.
5) Increase your intake of good fats.
6) Ditch most calorie containing drinks (including fruit juice) and drink water instead.
7) Focus on whole foods rather than supplements for your essential nutrients.
8) Have 10% foods.
9) Develop food preparation strategies.
10) Balance daily food choices with healthy variety.</div>
 
Fausto
QUOTE
Bryans writings on the subject are at least 4 years old, and science has made progress in the area.
Bryan, Dan... this is a challenge to update our science based info, right?
Let's help if we can, with all due respect!

My point exactly.

Morgoth the Dark Enemy
Don`t bother with him. Asides from the whiny ass PMs(that are quite entertaining, mind you, they`re like internet tough guy to the max), there`s nothing fun about this latest trollish incarnation(there seems to be a lot of em here these days). Say, wanna trade PMs?Mine are with profanity, homophobia and stuff...and of course, the best, Internet threats.

As you all have proven beyond doubt now, YOU are the trolls on this forum. You don't even have anything worthwhile to contribute. Just trash talk from cowards.

Bulldog
I hit the ignore button after I read the &quot;Rookie Question&quot; thread morning. Enough is enough. Obviously JS doesn't appreciate the fact that most people here prefer scientific studies and the truths they bring to the table over the BS that has been passed down from Arnie and the early BB's who had no real clue what was really good and bad. Did it work for them? Sure it did. But they were all also using AAS where most people on this forum are natural and need to know what really works.
And the childish rantings JS posts saying everyone here gangs up on and flames all the new people is outright BS.
Keep on posting JS.....but I won't be wasting my time reading your rants.

Not true. In fact, I started posting links to this site's scientific information as support for my comments after being attacked by several of these idiots when I disagreed with their bogus comments. Childish ranting? What do you call your post? Hahahahaha. BS? Can you read? Or do you have all of these people on Ignore?

Morgoth the Dark Enemy
Understand, by method and approach, that he is a troll. It is a studied attitude, and it`s fairly obvious. The fact that everyone was up and:welcome bro, you seem to know your stuff etc., should raise a couple of eyebrows, wouldn`t you agree?

Yes, it is clear that you have learned to troll very well. No one welcomed me until I started kicking your asses with proof.

ryanc
This thread has gotten way out of hand, and I'm sort of loving it...
Anyway, the original point was NOT to be an @$$, but rather to point out the obvious. I'd say at least 9 out of 10 people that visit this site want to get big. I'll also go ahead and say that a similar percentage are those who have tried what Joe Schmoe in the gym told them to do, got no results, and Googled &quot;build muscle fast&quot;. So now they try HST with a garbage diet, end up LOSING weight, and start posting because they think HST sucks.
I don't care how you slice it...the fastest way to get big (naturally anyway) is to lift big, and EAT BIG. I'm talking good bodybuilding food here. Steak, oatmeal, fish, chicken, rice, potatoes. You can throw as many studies at me as you want, but you can take 2 twins, set up equal HST workouts, have one eating how I'm outlining (2g protein/lb, spread over 6ish meals per day, carb cutoff about 4 hours before bed keeps bodyfat down) and one eating just enough to get by to gain 1 lb of muscle a year and you're going to see a drastic difference.
I'm not trying to tell you what to do, nor to eat 10 meals a day. At 210lbs, I'm up around 4000 calories a day and 400-450g of protein. Have you ever tried eating 400g protein over 3 meals? That's around 130g of protein per sitting!
Too much of a &quot;hassle&quot; for you to eat more than 3 meals a day? Well, then, I guess you're just not cut out for this bodybuilding thing then. I'll tell you one thing though, the people who read this post and all of a sudden a lightbulb flashes on in their head....they are going to be walking all over the rest of you in a couple of months

HST and ryanc win, trolls lose.
 
I would love to eat only 3-4 times a day but I have become so accustomed to eating at least something small every 3 hours or so that if I go 4 hours without eating I am STARVING.

(Plus, many of my smaller meals are a protein bar or shake, and they make it easier to get enough protein in the day. Intuitively it makes more sense to get 50 grams of protein for breakfast &amp; then 20 more grams 3 hours later, than to get 70 all at once and not eat again for 5-6 more hours.)

I don't think the reason is that I am not eating enough, because I am at about 22% bodyfat, which is down from 31% about 15 months ago. My weight has fluctuated some but is presently the same now (~230) as it was when I was 31% bf.

SO I seem to be one of those people who started out fat enough to burn some fat while building some muscle.

Am I on a reeeeeal slow cut or a reeeeal slow bulk?
 
SDP -

I recently read a study that indicated that IF a body has a high percentage of body fat for an extended amount of time, it takes longer to whittle away the fat itself, regardless of diet and exercise. SO - stay the course, my friend - I suspect that (if it's possible), you're cutting and bulking simultaneously, albeit at a slower pace based on what you wrote.

Keep on keepin' on!
 
SDP -

I recently read a study that indicated that IF a body has a high percentage of body fat for an extended amount of time, it takes longer to whittle away the fat itself, regardless of diet and exercise. SO - stay the course, my friend - I suspect that you're cutting, albeit at a slower pace based on what you wrote.

Keep on keepin' on!
 
<div>
(ryanc @ Jun. 07 2007,08:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Here was my actual diet today for anyone interested.

meal 1: 5PM
2 cups raisin bran w/ skim milk
2 scoops protein in skim milk

meal 2: 8PM
12oz steak
3 red potatoes

meal 3: 10:30PM
2 scoops protein in milk
2 tbsp peanut butter

meal 4: 1:30 AM
2 cans of tuna with light mayo on multi-grain bread

meal 5: 4 AM
2 chicken breasts
a decent amount of rice

meal 6: 8:00 AM
2 scoops protein in water

BEDTIME


Pretty light night foodwise. Yes, I work night shift. Yes, I pretty much get to eat whenever I want. it rules. Yes, my bodyfat is decreasing because I am not having any carbs before bed (about 4 hours) and because I do morning cardio on an empty stomach (down 5g of bcaa's first). Weird, huh?</div>
Where's the veggies/fruit? :-x

If there's one area I sucked at in the past, it was produce, but I am making a conscious effort to fix it. I've even made broccoli my friend, lately.
 
John Steel, what are you even arguing about and what did HST and the OP &quot;win?&quot;

I don't think anybody ever disagreed that food was really important, a few made issues with some of the hard and fast statements he made regarding meal frequency and such. Some evidence was pointed out which implied that, given decent protein intake, meal frequency isn't nearly the deal bodybuilders seem to claim it is.

The only counter &quot;evidence&quot; offered was you quoting Bryan, which is no form of evidence at all. It's his opinion. He may have good evidence for that opinion, but unless he shares it, the closest thing to a &quot;victory&quot; in terms of substantiating one's claims with outside evidence would be the people who made the claim that meal frequency was not the issue bodybuilders make out of it, as it's the only peer reviewed evidence cited in this entire thread.
 
Mikey,

Just out of curiosity, so I can do some research for myself, do you know of any academic journal sites that have research related to stuff we talk about on here?
 
OK, I'm no scientist, but 2g protein/lb seems really high. I've read 1g/kg on the endurance forums and 1g/lb on the bodybuilding forums, but I've also read that if you push it too high then you're damaging your kidneys for no tangible benefit. I'm not sure where that level is, but 2g/lb seems pushing it.

A bit of googling:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">We have seen in our lab that individuals undergoing endurance training increase their protein needs to about 1 to 1.2 g per kg per day, well above the RDA. In contrast, for subjects performing resistance exercises or weight lifting, the RDA for protein (0.8 - 1g/kg) seems to be adequate. In resistance training, you are building up muscle and protein is used more efficiently.

The typical American diet, as we said earlier, is already providing plenty of protein. There is no value in adding even more protein to that amount, since protein cannot be stored in the body and the excess is eliminated in urine and feces.

When people start consuming too much protein (over 2.0 g/kg/d), the extra protein can become a stressful stimulus for the kidney. This is even more of a concern as we get older and our organs are less efficient and effective.

Robert M. Russell, M.D., and Carmen Castanada Sceppa, M.D., Ph.D.

Carmen Castanada Sceppa, M.D, Ph.D., is a scientist working at the Jean Mayer USDA/Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts University School of Medicine. Carmen's research emphasizes protein nutrition and physiological function of healthy older individuals and those with chronic illnesses.</div>

In researching my own program, I've come across a great deal of &quot;if a little is good, then a lot must be great&quot; type of attitude, and I worry that it could be harmful. Everything in moderation, right?

Personally, I'm boosting protein a bit in my diet, since I'm a vegetarian, but I'm not even going so far as 1g/lb. And I'm trying to follow John Berardi's guidelines of scheduling carb intake, eating lots of fruit and veggies, etc. Too soon to know how effective it is since I'm only in my first weeks of HST, but at least I know I FEEL good...
 
Deolmstead: since you're allready a veggie, what is it that you changed that has made you now 'feel' good? The protein boost? Carb scheduling?
I'm having problems feeling good, so looking into energy diets.
 
<div>
(UFGatorDude30 @ Jun. 07 2007,15:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Mikey,

Just out of curiosity, so I can do some research for myself, do you know of any academic journal sites that have research related to stuff we talk about on here?</div>
You can find a lot of stuff on PubMed and Medline. Bear in mind that most studies aren`t free, so you`ll probably get only the abstract, having to pay a subscription fee for the complete study.
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Jun. 07 2007,16:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Deolmstead: since you're allready a veggie, what is it that you changed that has made you now 'feel' good? The protein boost? Carb scheduling?
I'm having problems feeling good, so looking into energy diets.</div>
Well, the &quot;feel good&quot; comment was mainly coming out of a comparison with my experience a couple years ago, when I tried the South Beach (low carb) diet. I had very low energy, felt weak during any sort of exertion, was constantly trying to figure out what to eat, and didn't really lose much weight. It wasn't, as you'll guess, a very successful diet.

Now, I've modified it to match John Berardi's recommendations as much as I can, and it's made a big difference. I have plenty of rice, bread or whatever for my after-workout meals in addition to Endurox immediately afterwards (might just switch to chocolate milk after my canister runs out - that stuff's pricey). On my off-days I avoid carbs, but not too strictly. I no longer have the energy or weakness issues, and although I'm early in my cycle I have a good feeling about how it's going - my body feels...responsive. Not sure how else to put it.

Diet-wise, I can't be 100% sure what's made the difference as I've made a TON of changes lately, but I suspect the single greatest thing is working to have fresh fruit and veggies with every meal. I signed up for a box of organic fruits and vegetables delivered directly to your door (www.organicexpress.com) - which forces me to come up with meals that incorporate the veggies, and gives a nice variety from the same old stuff.

It's difficult to be a low-carb vegetarian, even if it's only part-time, but I'm learning more and more about eastern, indian and middle-eastern cooking as those cuisines are more friendly than euro-oriented menus, and so far, so good.
 
<div>
(ryanc @ Jun. 08 2007,02:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm not trying to tell you what to do, nor to eat 10 meals a day.  At 210lbs, I'm up around 4000 calories a day and 400-450g of protein. Have you ever tried eating 400g protein over 3 meals? That's around 130g of protein per sitting!</div>
is english your second language or do you just have reading problems?
 
<div>
(Guest @ Jun. 08 2007,06:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">HST and ryanc win, trolls lose.</div>
You teh suck at der internet
 
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