Not gaining muscle?  This is why.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It should be remembered that the body does not have the capacity to effectively store amino acids so protein should be eaten at least every 3-4 hours.</div>

Cool, I didn't know that. I didn't bother to read the product sales pitch section.
 
I think the OP has really hit the nail on the head. Not from a scientific perspective or anything that anyone here can probably refute with a google search and some complex calorie/work calculators.

But rather, for the skinny Joe HSTer attitude and perspective.

Fact is you are putting in the effort to lift the weights. Sure, you might be able to grow on less calories, less protein, save yourself $10 a week. But is that worth &quot;risking&quot; all your effort for. I'd say no.

Eat lots, eat frequent, eat quality foods.

Even if you still dont get results, it's now one thing you can remove from the complex equation of &quot;what went wrong?&quot;. So its not all wasted time and effort. You've learned something is wrong and its not your diet.

But if you get results, sweet, and then you can still tinker with the diet and reduce calories etc if extra fat is stacking on. Besides, a skinny bloke is not gunna stack on huge rolls in fat in one cycle, so he has little to lose and everything to gain, pun intended.
 
mikeynov:
&quot;Not to point out the obvious, but the OP himself came in acting like a self-proclaimed expert and regurgitating bro logic.&quot;

I saw that some took his post that way. But two wrongs don't make a right. And I hate gangs of sheeple all jumping on someone simply because they disagree with the status quo, especially when the status quo doesn't even reflect the principles espoused on this site. And in reality, most of what he posted is stated elsewhere on this site.

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/HSreport/iss04/index.html#art_1
If you are not gaining weight, perhaps it is your diet that needs more attention. If you are using HST and you are not gaining weight, it is definitely your diet.

I appeal to you all to rise above your personal BS when you come here, to forgo the usual junk I see all over the 'Net, which has become a haven for every weakling with a grudge to spew pointless hatred with anonymity. I challenge you all to at least attempt to be helpful, civil and decent, and to set an example for others. You catch more flies with honey. Peace.
 
<div>
(John Steel @ Jun. 06 2007,03:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">mikeynov:
&quot;Not to point out the obvious, but the OP himself came in acting like a self-proclaimed expert and regurgitating bro logic.&quot;

I saw that some took his post that way. But two wrongs don't make a right. And I hate gangs of sheeple all jumping on someone simply because they disagree with the status quo, especially when the status quo doesn't even reflect the principles espoused on this site. And in reality, most of what he posted is stated elsewhere on this site.

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/HSreport/iss04/index.html#art_1
If you are not gaining weight, perhaps it is your diet that needs more attention. If you are using HST and you are not gaining weight, it is definitely your diet.

I appeal to you all to rise above your personal BS when you come here, to forgo the usual junk I see all over the 'Net, which has become a haven for every weakling with a grudge to spew pointless hatred with anonymity. I challenge you all to at least attempt to be helpful, civil and decent, and to set an example for others. You catch more flies with honey. Peace.</div>
Well, the original message was pretty clearly that a lot of people wildly underestimate the importance of food in gaining muscle mass, and in that respect, it's hard to disagree.

That said, a lot of people go the opposite route, imho, and make food a crutch for an inability to otherwise gain muscle. Once upon a time, bodybuilding was a healthy pursuit, and a lot of people use &quot;bulks&quot; as an excuse to eat whatever the **** they want, such that their dietary patterns resemble something like a person with an eating disorder, alternating between longer cycles of binging (bulks) and semi-starvation (cuts).
 
stevejones :
&quot;QUOTE
It should be remembered that the body does not have the capacity to effectively store amino acids so protein should be eaten at least every 3-4 hours.

Cool, I didn't know that. I didn't bother to read the product sales pitch section.&quot;

Hahahahaha.  I know, man.  But at least it's from this site and not some pseudo-scientific junk from who knows where.  If you read up on some of Mr. Haycock's writings, he does a great job of pointing out how flawed and unscientific a lot of the studies one might quote really are.
After studying this subject for 23 years, I can honestly say that almost everything I read to this very day has to be taken with a grain of salt, read over many times, checked between the lines and for small print as well.  Meaning:  most of it is unproven junk, even when it's backed by so-called science.  A great example is most of the literature behind HIT.  Some of it's great and makes sense.  I use some principles of HIT myself.  But most of it was simply created to sell Nautilus equipment to YUPpies--the rich, the lazy and the &quot;I don't have 20 minutes, 3 times a week to spare&quot; crowd.
 
Question for John Steel
Do you follow 'vanilla' HST? Just curious since you seem to be quite smart about bodybuilding and very experienced. If not, what routine do you do? If you wouldn't mind, you could post in my new thread about training routines. Thanks.
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scientific muscle:
&quot;John- I agree with what you said, but you could use more 'honey' yourself. Most of your recent posts have a harsh tone.&quot;

I won't debate that at all.  You are correct.  All of my posts are recent because I haven't been here in a while.  And when I come back here to offer my opinion and perhaps even to help other people out of nothing but the kindness of my heart, whether my opinion is valid, well-liked or not, I don't appreciate being treated like a doormat just so some children can get their kicks.  I don't tolerate that in real life and I get a really bad attitude when I'm forced to wade through tons of it online.  In fact, I don't frequent many places online anymore at all because of the overwhelming urge to strangle people who would never be so disrespectful of others face to face.  All I can say is that I will try to allay some of my anger and return to my original purpose, as I am doing now.  But my first experiences back here have been decidedly negative and I give what I get, so no, I offer no apologies whatsoever.
 
scientific muscle:
&quot;Do you follow 'vanilla' HST? Just curious since you seem to be quite smart about bodybuilding and very experienced. If not, what routine do you do? If you wouldn't mind, you could post in my new thread about training routines. Thanks.&quot;

No, I use a hybrid with aspects of HST, HIT, Westside and everything else that works one can think of probably. But my goals aren't typical and hypertrophy is not my primary objective. However, I have very little doubt that HST, if properly applied, is probably the most effective single program for hypertrophy, if that is your primary objective. I'll post to that thread as soon as I can.
 
<div>
(stevejones @ Jun. 06 2007,21:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It should be remembered that the body does not have the capacity to effectively store amino acids so protein should be eaten at least every 3-4 hours.</div>

Cool, I didn't know that. I didn't bother to read the product sales pitch section.</div>
The body does have a lovely pool of amino acids, never mind that 3-4hours is less than the digestion period. Never mind that maintaining amino acids at a high level constantly may not actually lead to more gains in the first place, but thats beside the point for the people who want ot eat ever 3hours.
 
i dont know why this thread has turned out the way it has,but for me the reason i posted those studies is because thats what i beleive,and i dont like or appreciate anyone on anysite tell people that they have to eat 6 or 7 times a day to grow when its not true.


some newbies to training and diet because of work and other commitments might not get the time to down 7 a day, they might only be able to get 3 but because they have been told that they must eat 7 a day,they may think to themselves whats the point in training if im not getting enough food enough times a day.

people grow on three meals a day,so to state as fact that you have to have 7 a day when its not true is very annoying to me.
 
Aaron_F:
&quot;The body does have a lovely pool of amino acids, never mind that 3-4hours is less than the digestion period. Never mind that maintaining amino acids at a high level constantly may not actually lead to more gains in the first place, but thats beside the point for the people who want ot eat ever 3hours.&quot;

The quote is from this very site.
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/products.html
Daily Protein Intake Levels
Current recommendations for total protein intake for athletes is between 1.6-1.8 grams per kilogram body weight, depending on who you read, however, it is not uncommon for bodybuilders to consume in excess of 2 grams per kg (1 gram per pound) of body weight with no ill effects. It should be remembered that the body does not have the capacity to effectively store amino acids so protein should be eaten at least every 3-4 hours.

If there is a pool of amino acids, it's going to be pulled from existing muscle if and when protein is lacking in the diet. Better safe than sorry. Plus, I can't imagine anyone getting all of the total calories they need for growth without having several meals daily, especially if they're clean calories, rather than sugar and grease. Mmm, KFC. Some weight gainers maybe, but I wouldn't use the stuff myself.
 
BTW concerning 150lb guys knowing nothing,i think scientists who actually study muscle growth would probably know more about there trained subject than we do.
the size of someone doesnt make them an expert,there trainer could have taught them everything,genetics,drugs,etc.

when i was at school the PE teacher was of so the maths teacher &quot;who also taught PE i didnt know&quot; took over.
he was teaching us how to do a hand spring i said &quot;can you do one sir&quot; and he said &quot; i dont need to be able to do one to teach you how to do one&quot;.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The body does have a lovely pool of amino acids, never mind that 3-4hours is less than the digestion period. Never mind that maintaining amino acids at a high level constantly may not actually lead to more gains in the first place, but thats beside the point for the people who want ot eat ever 3hours.</div>


I can't think of many people who really want to eat that often.  Eating that frequently is a pain in the ass.   If there is no conclusive evidence that maintaing amino acids at a high level leads to better gains, then why does Bryan say to do it? If it takes your body longer than 3 hours to digest protein, why would you consume protein every 3 hrs ? Does Bryan just say that because he was pushing Primer and wanted more people to take it more often ?  Why is there conflicting advice between the hst experts ?
 
stevejones:
&quot;Why is there conflicting advice between the hst experts ?&quot;

I don't know for sure, but it appears to me that the title of &quot;HST Expert&quot; here on the boards is based solely on the number of posts a person has, as opposed to their actual knowledge of HST. I would research HST myself if I were you for this reason alone.

No offense intended to anyone and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
 
the expert status is based on your posting thats all.
but we are talking about nutrition here , HST is a set of principals for training, diet is a whole different ball game.
 
All boils down to one thing, you have to have calory surplus to build muscle...undeniable.

By the way John, I use my own name, and try to keep things in prespective, but I just thought there was no need for things to get harsh!
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<div>
(John Steel @ Jun. 06 2007,05:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">stevejones:
&quot;Why is there conflicting advice between the hst experts ?&quot;

I don't know for sure, but it appears to me that the title of &quot;HST Expert&quot; here on the boards is based solely on the number of posts a person has, as opposed to their actual knowledge of HST.  I would research HST myself if I were you for this reason alone.

No offense intended to anyone and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.</div>
I was just talking about Bryan and Aaron.  I don't know if Aaron could technically be considered a &quot;hst expert.&quot;  However, nutrition is his field so he's an expert in that.  

However, I do pay attention to Tot's stuff, and I do recall that post of his stating that only calories matter, not frequency of meals.  Those kinds of posts have been in the back of my mind as I've been slacking off some and basically getting three squares a day now.  This is why I appreciated your post quoting Bryan's advice, because now it seems that what I'm doing may be wrong.  Then, Aaron chimes in and disagrees with Bryan and everything becomes quite confusing again.  That's bodybuilding for ya !  
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<div>
(John Steel @ Jun. 06 2007,05:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">stevejones:
&quot;Why is there conflicting advice between the hst experts ?&quot;

I don't know for sure, but it appears to me that the title of &quot;HST Expert&quot; here on the boards is based solely on the number of posts a person has, as opposed to their actual knowledge of HST. I would research HST myself if I were you for this reason alone.

No offense intended to anyone and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.</div>
Not actually true, the title is one Bryan himself has to grant, and isn't based on number of posts.

As to why there's conflicting opinions, I don't see this as too bizarre. HST is a set of principles regarding muscle growth based on peer-reviewed evidence, not an all-inclusive, cult philosophy of all things lifting/nutrition.
 
Fausto:
&quot;By the way John, I use my own name, and try to keep things in prespective, but I just thought there was no need for things to get harsh!&quot;

I understand that and that was my point as well. I didn't start the negativity, I just escalated it. I plead self-defense and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, your honor. Ohhhh. The flashbacks. All is cool on my side of the fence.

mikeynov:
&quot;As to why there's conflicting opinions, I don't see this as too bizarre. HST is a set of principles regarding muscle growth based on peer-reviewed evidence, not an all-inclusive, cult philosophy of all things lifting/nutrition.&quot;

True. Mr. Haycock says as much himself somewhere around here, but if I look up another link, my head will explode. Basically that, like most good things, it's a work in progress.

It looks to me like there is a lot of evidence in both directions and the only clear answers are: don't starve yourself and expect to grow, and do what works best for you, because faz makes the best point here:
&quot;some newbies to training and diet because of work and other commitments might not get the time to down 7 a day, they might only be able to get 3 but because they have been told that they must eat 7 a day,they may think to themselves whats the point in training if im not getting enough food enough times a day.&quot;
Like telling a 600 pound person that they have to run a marathon to lose weight. Right back to the couch. Nice job, faz.
 
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