Off-topic - Trump

J

Jester

Well-Known Member
For the Americans who are comfortable discussing politics.

I have to ask, what is the appeal of someone who is so morally flawed and hateful towards so many people?

My belief and faith in the land of the free leads me to hypothesise that if their anti-government politicians who didn’t commit degrees of sexual assault and demonise African and Latin Americans, that you’d be voting for them over him ...

... so, are his political positions so appealing & distinct from the status quo that his tremendous failings in moral leadership don’t outweigh those positions?

Genuine curiosity.
 
I am obviously not American but there seems to be a political shift worldwide ATM, are people just getting fed up and shifting from the centre ground either to the left or right?

In respect of Trump according to the UK Media / Press he seems to be giving what they want in terms of America First, mind you I no longer trust the worlds media in particular our own, just listen to the bile they spouted about what would immediately happen if we dared to vote to leave, did it happen, NO. It will happen when we do actually leave I know but how severe it will be is yet to be seen.
 
Hillary was despised, arrogant and mistrusted as the perpetrator of so many suspected crimes that Trump was simply the lessor of two evils. He wasn't particularly wanted but he was the only viable alternative. America is sick of career politicians and Trump could be a pretty good president for the economy if he could just keep his mouth shut. Unfortunately, that is not possible. Americans have also seen how lax immigration laws have endangered Europe and the Republicans are the only party who want to tighten our border and not spiral us with socialist giveaways into debt that the Chinese will scoop up and, if we continue down this path, will eventually own the USA. Just my opinion.

PS: This was written as if it were 2016 to explain Trump's win. Today might show differing results due to his big mouth.
 
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mickc1965 said:
I am obviously not American but there seems to be a political shift worldwide ATM, are people just getting fed up and shifting from the centre ground either to the left or right?

In respect of Trump according to the UK Media / Press he seems to be giving what they want in terms of America First, mind you I no longer trust the worlds media in particular our own, just listen to the bile they spouted about what would immediately happen if we dared to vote to leave, did it happen, NO. It will happen when we do actually leave I know but how severe it will be is yet to be seen.
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Brexit is tough to analyse, especially when you look at how the demographics voted. It reveals a high-density/urban sub-nation, and then an outer-suburban(i.e. county) and rural sub-nation.

Economically it was a stupid decision to vote to leave, but the border protection and some ancillary factors are sensible justifications in some contexts.


Old and Grey said:
Hillary was despised, arrogant and mistrusted as the perpetrator of so many suspected crimes that Trump was simply the lessor of two evils. He wasn't particularly wanted but he was the only viable alternative. America is sick of career politicians and Trump could be a pretty good president for the economy if he could just keep his mouth shut. Unfortunately, that is not possible. Americans have also seen how lax immigration laws have endangered Europe and the Republicans are the only party who want to tighten our border and not spiral us with socialist giveaways into debt that the Chinese will scoop up and, if we continue down this path, will eventually own the USA. Just my opinion.

PS: This was written as if it were 2016 to explain Trump's win. Today might show differing results due to his big mouth.
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It absolutely amazes me that the propaganda about a caravan is effective.

And yeh, the anti-socialist line still rings true in your country - that much is evident. It’s puzzling to other countries in the West, because instead of social welfare ‘giveaways’, so much of your country has been taken away by corporates and lobbyists.

Healthcare being a prime example. The best healthcare system is the one that provides the best health outcomes to the greatest number of people. Nowhere in the conversation should insurance companies be heard from - their business isn’t health, it’s profit.

Very interesting take on the lesser of two evils. I’d be surprised if Trump or any other wealthy, maverick candidate hasn’t committed more criminal acts than a career politician - simply running the numbers for opportunities and motives. Not the kind of thing you can ever find out for sure though.
 
@Jester,

Biggest issue for me is the fact that the EU Commission are an unelected body of bureaucrats that we cannot vote out if they get it wrong who dictate laws etc to 28 elected Governments, agreed we are better in the EU for trading but enough is enough and time to step back onto the world stage!!
 
mickc1965 said:
@Jester,

Biggest issue for me is the fact that the EU Commission are an unelected body of bureaucrats that we cannot vote out if they get it wrong who dictate laws etc to 28 elected Governments, agreed we are better in the EU for trading but enough is enough and time to step back onto the world stage!!
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Yeh, the EU is an interesting beast. Europe’s landmass fits into Australia, and fits into Africa something like 5-6 times over. In that respect, if those countries ever want to maintain global relevancy and leverage in trading terms then the block approach is necessary. Or, put another way, it’s pretty obvious why Russia spends so much time and money trying to re-fragment the EU and NATO.


The UK understandably hasn’t quite figured out where it fits, post-Empire and post-reforms from Thatcher and Blair. Likely you need the trading benefits but as a distinct nation re: borders and enforceability of other policies and treaties.




Maybe the aliens will hurry up and get here and make the idea of countries look stupid, sooner rather than later. It’s be faster at least ...:rolleyes:
 
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He’s insane, but then again a large portion of us American voters are uneducated idiots, so I’m never surprised when a crazy, cutthroat businessman and career politician with years of corruption are the only choices on the ballot.
I didn’t even vote, it was too depressing.
 
Sci said:
He’s insane, but then again a large portion of us American voters are uneducated idiots, so I’m never surprised when a crazy, cutthroat businessman and career politician with years of corruption are the only choices on the ballot.
I didn’t even vote, it was too depressing.
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Well that’s the issue - you don’t have mandatory voting.

Optional voting means that candidates have to appeal to the extremes of the their views to get the nomination, and then make a decision on whether to get the centre or not. Trump is so right wing it’s crazy. Nearly as bad as military weapons available over the counter.
 
Jester said:
Well that’s the issue - you don’t have mandatory voting.

Optional voting means that candidates have to appeal to the extremes of the their views to get the nomination, and then make a decision on whether to get the centre or not. Trump is so right wing it’s crazy. Nearly as bad as military weapons available over the counter.
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Totally agree, should be compulsory to vote, people died for that right!!
 
mickc1965 said:
Totally agree, should be compulsory to vote, people died for that right!!
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A right that amounts to practically nothing in the grand scheme of corrupt politics.
Choice crap a or choice crap b is not really a choice.
 
Yeah that's the thing, it's a bit of a trade off... if voting is compulsory you'll get people voting just for whoever without any clue, and not necessarily the best person for the job will get voted in. That doesn't make sense forcing everyone to vote, it's not really freedom then is it...

But if it was optional, then perhaps if there are more crazies out there they'd guarantee a crazy leader. Tricky situation, hard to put a right and a wrong to it
 
Sci said:
A right that amounts to practically nothing in the grand scheme of corrupt politics.
Choice crap a or choice crap b is not really a choice.
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You can impact the choices available in any number of ways - your recent mid-terms highlight this given some of the next-gen candidates that were successful.
 
Jester said:
For the Americans who are comfortable discussing politics.

I have to ask, what is the appeal of someone who is so morally flawed and hateful towards so many people?

My belief and faith in the land of the free leads me to hypothesise that if their anti-government politicians who didn’t commit degrees of sexual assault and demonise African and Latin Americans, that you’d be voting for them over him ...

... so, are his political positions so appealing & distinct from the status quo that his tremendous failings in moral leadership don’t outweigh those positions?

Genuine curiosity.
Click to expand...

A lot of people would respond to that by saying "But Hillary's emails!" or start saying something about how the previous president was a muslim (which he wasn't but who cares if he was anyway?) or would start talking about how Michelle Obama is actually a guy (did she give birth through her penis hole then? like wtf) or would try to find some other way of deflecting. Why? Because they know he is a piece of shit and they probably feel like idiots for having been fooled by his whole 'maverick' act "I'm gonna drain the swamp" act, since, you know, he didn't "drain the swamp" at all.

The truth is - there is no appeal, and the only reason he is in power is because Americans are too god damned stupid to realize that they don't have only two choices for president. Or that you can vote for different parties. Apparently we are all either one party or the other. All people are either a "dirty-probably-racist-conservative" who actually isn't racist because he knew a black guy once a long time ago, or a "stupid libtard who wants so steal all our guns and thinks you can get free electricity by plugging a surge protector into itself."
Which makes actual rational debate of politics impossible... which we all know that actually being able to talk about stuff like this is important, but anytime you bring up any opposing view, people act like you just said they have a tiny penis.
I just laugh now when someone who can't defend their position accuses me of being a liberal or a conservative depending on which line they are towing. When I tell them that I've voted for both democrats and republicans during the same election, their brains just short circuit, like I've broken some universal law, or divided by zero or something.

Also, he didn't really win the popular vote. Sort of like how Hillary shouldn't have actually gotten the democratic nomination. But it's common knowledge that our whole election system is pretty much a piece of crap anyway. Too much gerrymandering, people being kept from voting, or polling places not working right so people show up to vote but can't. The list goes on and on.

What we need is a complete deconstruction of the two parties we have here because they are both utterly ridiculous and a total overhaul of our voting system. Neither of which is going to actually happen.
 
Totentanz said:
A lot of people would respond to that by saying "But Hillary's emails!" or start saying something about how the previous president was a muslim (which he wasn't but who cares if he was anyway?) or would start talking about how Michelle Obama is actually a guy (did she give birth through her penis hole then? like wtf) or would try to find some other way of deflecting. Why? Because they know he is a piece of shit and they probably feel like idiots for having been fooled by his whole 'maverick' act "I'm gonna drain the swamp" act, since, you know, he didn't "drain the swamp" at all.

The truth is - there is no appeal, and the only reason he is in power is because Americans are too god damned stupid to realize that they don't have only two choices for president. Or that you can vote for different parties. Apparently we are all either one party or the other. All people are either a "dirty-probably-racist-conservative" who actually isn't racist because he knew a black guy once a long time ago, or a "stupid libtard who wants so steal all our guns and thinks you can get free electricity by plugging a surge protector into itself."
Which makes actual rational debate of politics impossible... which we all know that actually being able to talk about stuff like this is important, but anytime you bring up any opposing view, people act like you just said they have a tiny penis.
I just laugh now when someone who can't defend their position accuses me of being a liberal or a conservative depending on which line they are towing. When I tell them that I've voted for both democrats and republicans during the same election, their brains just short circuit, like I've broken some universal law, or divided by zero or something.

Also, he didn't really win the popular vote. Sort of like how Hillary shouldn't have actually gotten the democratic nomination. But it's common knowledge that our whole election system is pretty much a piece of crap anyway. Too much gerrymandering, people being kept from voting, or polling places not working right so people show up to vote but can't. The list goes on and on.

What we need is a complete deconstruction of the two parties we have here because they are both utterly ridiculous and a total overhaul of our voting system. Neither of which is going to actually happen.
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Totentanz sighting!

Appreciate your words.

Always looking for good staff if you need a move across the Pacific?
 
I tend to believe everything in American politics (maybe around the world too - not sure) points to flaws in so many areas of our government that they inevitably have to change. I agree with the others on the choices in the 2016 election. That said, Trump has done a number on both the electorate and America's relationship with other countries. I am a staunch Independent; I have sat in the middle of the political spectrum for all of my adult life.

Additionally, I believe to my core that Trump broke the law so many times that his demise is inevitable. Where that will leave our democracy should be pretty interesting to watch.
 
It is a good thing that Hillary and Bill never broke any laws. Nor Pelosi, Schumer or Waters. And then there is Princess Hiawatha. To speak nothing of Nixon! They are all thieves and crooks. Every last one of the scumbags.:D
 
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