Other substances added to creatine...

[Calkid]

Okay, so I'm reading my new stuff magazine, and I see one of those ads from ########## peddling their protein and creatine (fluffily named nitro-#### and cell-####), with the usual anecdotal man who transformed his body. I usually ignore the ads, but I happened to notice that their ad claimed that their creatine is, and I quote, "over 19 times better than regular creatine!" I think to myself, "How in the name of moses can they make this ridiculous claim?"

On their website, studies are quoted (which they funded, of course) that claims that subjects using their special creatine gained 19 times more mass than did those using regular creatine. A little more digging revealed the reason for the supposed superiority:

"The combination of precisely 75 grams of pharmaceutical-grade dextrose, 200 mg of alpha lipoic acid, and 10 grams of pure, micronized creatine found in CELL-#### ..."

They go on to justify the addition of these compounds:
For the 70g of dextrose:

"The transport of creatine is mediated by the amount and efficiency of circulating insulin, the most powerful, anabolic hormone in the body... In ... studies, subjects took creatine with more than twice the amount of dextrose found in most creatine formulas on the market today and experienced a 60 percent greater creatine retention compared to subjects taking creatine with water."

For the 200 mg alpha lipoic acid:

"Research conducted in Germany indicates that alpha lipoic acid may help move sugar into the muscle where it can be used as energy during exercise. This research shows that alpha lipoic acid has a similar function as the powerful anabolic hormone insulin. Alpha lipoic acid also acts as a potent antioxidant which has been suggested to aid in the reduction of muscle damage and the greater amount of oxidation associated with exercise. Alpha lipoic acid also plays a key role in energy production required by the muscles during resistance training."

As to 10g of creatine instead of 5g:

"[Our] researchers advocate that 10 grams of creatine and 75 grams of dextrose is the precise amount needed to improve the lesser muscle creatine storage that is associated with smaller, more frequent servings of creatine (the traditional 5 grams per serving). The result is the absorption of a greater amount of creatine into the muscles."

They sum it up by saying "CELL-#### significantly outperforms regular creatine monohydrate because its formula results in greater uptake and storage of creatine and other vital key nutrients. "

My question boils down to this: Is there any merit to any of this?

-Calkid

 

[Jon Stark]

I doubt it. I would be surprised if this stuff works any better than creatine mixed in Gatorade.

Once muscle cells are saturated with creatine, they can't take any more anyway. Even if this stuff works as well as they claim, it's just going to get you saturated faster than plain old creatine. After that it offers no benefit.

 

[stevie]

I did a small investigation into cell techs products because a friend insisted on using them (he was conned by the ads).
if you read the ingredients, heres the main additives
1)sugar
2)some overhyped 'super dooper special creatine delivery system'

Sugar, we know, aids creatine uptake due to rise in insulin levels. but you could add yourself for a fraction of the cost.

their 'unique' creatine delivery system is a con! I cant remember the names of the 2 ingredients off hand, but check the label and type the compound names into a yahoo. You will find very quickly that they are of modest value.
Studies have genuinly shown that the main compound is able to increase transport into cells......in diabetics!!! it only increases transport when insulin is absent!!!
The second compound also increases transport, but is found in the body in excess supply anyway! How would supplementation with a small amount of what is already in excess acheive anything!!!

 

[BIZ]

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Quote[/b] ]For the 70g of dextrose:
&quot;The transport of creatine is mediated by the amount and efficiency of circulating insulin, the most powerful, anabolic hormone in the body... In ... studies, subjects took creatine with more than twice the amount of dextrose found in most creatine formulas on the market today and experienced a 60 percent greater creatine retention compared to subjects taking creatine with water.&quot;

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What if someone was insulin resistant and used Cell-####? You would have one fat a## person. 75g of dextrose is a test used to determine whether a person is diabetic. I guess you will find out if you are when you use Cell-####.

 

[Calkid]

Biz, you're right! I went back and looked at the site again, and they actually say
&quot;There is solid scientific research supporting the use of 75 grams of pharmaceutical-grade dextrose... This is the exact amount that the American Diabetic Association advocates for doctors assessing insulin release and insulin sensitivity when conducting the Oral Glucose Tolerance Test. Smaller, arbitrary amounts of dextrose other creatine formulas use may not trigger adequate insulin release.&quot;

Uh, they seem to want us to think that the fact that 75g of dextrose is the diabetes test is the reason that it should be the dextrose dose that accompanies creatine. The reasoning is definitely flawed, but is there still any merit to adding so much dextrose and the alpha lipoic acid?

-Calkid

 

[BIZ]

ALA is apparently an insulin mimicker much like chromium has been touted to be. That much dextrose is not necessary to get an adequate insulin spike. Half that dosage along with whey protein can cause an adequate insulin spike as well. Again, my concern would be whether a person could handle such an insulin spike and sharp rise in blood glucose levels, even post training. The person's used in their studies are not worth reporting on being they resort to using drug induced bodybuilders to hype the product. If they showed me a before and after of Joe Average and he looked awesome after a jug of Cell-#### and could prove he was not using any drugs, then I may buy into it. I am not too keen on ########### products myself due to their marketing ploys.

Sorry I used their name. Liability issues understood.

 

[NightOp]

I think r-ALA is worth adding when using creatine. I take 200-300mg of it with every dose of creatine... I think it does make a difference, however one should note that when taking over 100mg of ALA (r-ALA)/day you should also supplement with a little Biotin to prevent an imbalance... take the biotin at a time apart from any ALA intake. I think 1800-3000 mcg (note, that I said mcg, not mg) of biotin is sufficient unless you are one of those people that like to take 1+ grams of ALA per day.

 

[Bryan Haycock]

Just buy some creatine. Buy some dextrose ($2.95/2lbs), stir it up in a cheap electrolyte drink and you're set.

You don't need ALA nor will you notice anything at all for it being there. It is simply a way for them to differentiate themselves in a crowded market. In other words, why buy there creatine unless they tell you it is super special? So, they tell you it is super special so you will buy it.

Oh yeah, &quot;pharmaceutical-grade dextrose&quot; is a rediculous thing to say. It's like Kelloggs saying &quot;we only use pharmaceutical grade dextrose in our Frosted Flakes&quot;.

One more thing, once creatine stores are full in muscle tissue, it doesn't matter whether you take 5 grams or 10 grams, the muscle won't take in any more because it downregulates the creatine transporters until no more creatine can be taken in. Insulin or no insulin, if there are no transporters, no creatine is being taken up into muscle tissue. It is simply being broken down into creatinine and peed out.

 

[Bryan Haycock]

I don't mean to sound preachy, but...I was told by several people in the industry that unless I did something to my creatine to make it fancy, I would never be able to sell it. They said it needed bells a whistles. I told them, &quot;Why would I make a product that I wouldn't buy myself?&quot; And they would say, &quot;That's different, you know a lot more about this stuff than they do.&quot; Well, I didn't do anything fancy to my creatine. I only made sure it was the purest that could be bought and provided the research to support its use, as well as the research to show how best to use it for gains. I didn't fabricate any of the research either. It was done by institutions that have nothing to gain from creatine sales.

 

[Lil Popa Pump]

Bryan, who supplies your creatine? After reading a recent report, I am a little concerned with the purity of some of the suppliers.

See: J Sports Med. Phys. Fitness 2001,Mar;41(1):1-10:
(I have cut and only included the relevant part of the abstract)

A major point that related to the quality of creatine monohydrate products is the amount of creatine ingested in relation to the amount of contaminants present. During the industrial production of creatine monohydrate from sarcosine and cyanamide, variable amounts of contaminants (dicyandiamide, dihydrotriazines, creatinine, ions) are generated and, thus, their tolerable concentrations (ppm) must be defined and made consumers known. Furthermore, because sarcosine could originate from bovine tissues, the risk of contamination with prion of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE or mad-cow disease) can't be excluded.

 

[BIZ]

I am on board with Bryan. I have posted before about my homemade super creatine transporter mix. What is it? Generic fruit punch mix with dextrose as the sweetener and about 50mg sodium per serving, and plain old creatine. Cost me about $15 for one month supply.
I have yet to buy HSN creatine, but will do so from now on. I have a few 100g of creatine to use that I got from the football weight room here at K-State. Free!!

BIZ

 

[Spencer]

Bryan, you mention about putting up a creatine FAQ, where you will address the issue of the best way to take creatine, whether caffeine negates creatine etc etc....

Havent seen it since then.....guess you should be busy. A reminder for you then...

Quote[/b] ]Bryan, who supplies your creatine? After reading a recent report, I am a little concerned with the purity of some of the suppliers.

See: J Sports Med. Phys. Fitness 2001,Mar;41(1):1-10:
(I have cut and only included the relevant part of the abstract)

A major point that related to the quality of creatine monohydrate products is the amount of creatine ingested in relation to the amount of contaminants present. During the industrial production of creatine monohydrate from sarcosine and cyanamide, variable amounts of contaminants (dicyandiamide, dihydrotriazines, creatinine, ions) are generated and, thus, their tolerable concentrations (ppm) must be defined and made consumers known. Furthermore, because sarcosine could originate from bovine tissues, the risk of contamination with prion of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE or mad-cow disease) can't be excluded.

Bump!!