Preserving Joints & Connective Tissues

[Chthonian]

The 15's are used to flush the body with lactate, which has been shown to function as low-level prehab. There is anecdotal evidence supporting this, and a few studies. If this was such a useful method of prehab, though, wouldn't it be more widespread throughout the world of athletes? This is not something that I've heard or seen to be common practice.

Also, does anyone here see any drawbacks to a person focusing on strength-oriented routines which utilize 3-5 rep sets, in terms of their training lifestyle? Would working in these lower rep ranges for years on end eventually lead a person to injury, or can they be used from highschool, to a person's 40's, let's say, without any fear of ending that person's lifting career?

 

[Chthonian]

No one?

 

[Scooper182]

Quote[/b] ]The 15's are used to flush the body with lactate, which has been shown to function as low-level prehab. There is anecdotal evidence supporting this, and a few studies. If this was such a useful method of prehab, though, wouldn't it be more widespread throughout the world of athletes? This is not something that I've heard or seen to be common practice.

Well, I suppose I can offer an inverse example in order to examine this question: Stretching before the primary athletic scenario (ex, prior to sprinting, lifting a heavy weight, etc) is indeed widespread throughout the world of athletes. I know when I did track my coach always made us conduct lengthy stretches to "get loose" or "get warm" and prevent injuries. However, there are studies that Bryan referenced in the latest ThinkMuscle newsletter that prove stretching prior to a strength -related action will decrease your strength in performing that action! (Sweet, so I can blame my coach for my never hitting 11.4 seconds in the 100m&#33 In other words, the idea I'm presenting here is that the sports world is not ALWAYS correct, as they too can fall victim to old, unproven methods that have been spread down through the generations!

 

[jvroig]

Quote[/b] ]Also, does anyone here see any drawbacks to a person focusing on strength-oriented routines which utilize 3-5 rep sets, in terms of their training lifestyle? Would working in these lower rep ranges for years on end eventually lead a person to injury, or can they be used from highschool, to a person's 40's, let's say, without any fear of ending that person's lifting career?

Actually, the reason these heavy sets have only five reps is to avoid so much unnecessary strain (hence, avoiding "ending the lifting career" of a person). We don't do these 5 rep sets because 5 is magic or something. Rather, the load is so heavy that we should only do as few (yet effective) reps as possible that already stimulates hypertrophy. I mean, since the load is heavier, we don't do 15 reps anymore. We could do that if we want to, particularly by killing ourselves with clustering, but no one really advises that because it is not really that necessary. (Of course, if your girlfriend was watching you while you benchpress your five rep max of 250lbs, then please, don't just do five reps, go ahead and cluster and do ten or fifteen to impress her

)

Since the load is heavy during the 5 rep sets, and you are well within the 80-90% weight of your 1RM (2ns week of 5's, most often), you need as little 4 reps only to stimulate hypertrophy, so why bother doing 15 or 10? Just do 5, that's normally all you can manage anyway without straining yourself too much and getting CNS fatigue. If you want to be sure your muscles get more from the workout, do a metabollic set. Either way, the point is we do the fewer rep sets because: 1) That's all we really need for those heavy loads, 2) Any more would probably produce no significant or noticeable results, 3) More would also tire you more, would make you more likely to get CNS fatigue, and would give more punishment to your joints and connective tissues.

So as long as you leave your ego at the door when you are going heavy already, the lower rep sets are actually pretty sweet and safe.

Hope this helps. Good luck!
- JV

 

[imported_drewbaye]

Excessive weight doesn't cause injury. Poor form does.

The problem is when someone forgets to check their ego at the gym door and resorts to using poor form to move a weight that is too heavy for them to lift properly. If the weight was excessive, then they simply would not be able to lift it or perform as many reps if they maintained proper form.

 

[jvroig]

Quote[/b] ]Excessive weight doesn't cause injury. Poor form does.
The problem is when someone forgets to check their ego at the gym door and resorts to using poor form to move a weight that is too heavy for them to lift properly. If the weight was excessive, then they simply would not be able to lift it or perform as many reps if they maintained proper form.

Yeah, that's actually the point everytime somebody advises anybody not to use too much weight because obviously it would become impossible to maintain proper form with too much weight, and that causes so much problems. I just skip the middle part - the form issue - because the whole joints issue, I believe, depends heavily on the weight (being too much) rather than form itself. I mean, just MHO, it is the factor of having too much weight that causes the poor form in the first place, and also, a lighter weight like those in the early 15's would not cause so much joint problems even if the form isn't that good (unless it's astronomically poor form that the relevant joints are contorted in unholy positions, but that's too much of an exagerration). Again, that last statement is just MHO.

Anyway, whether you mention the poor form issue when saying "avoid too much weight because it would contribute to joint problems", the start and end would be the same: we start with too heavy weights, we end with joint problems. Practically the same solid advice, whether in passing you get to mention the issue of poor form.

But then of course, thanks for bringing it up. Now that I think more about it, it might actually have been a good idea to have mentioned that in the first place, just to reiterate the importance of observing proper form all the time. Thanks!

-JV

 

[imported_drewbaye]

It's not the weight that directly causes the injury though.

Take a car, for example. Most people can not lift the back end of a car because it is way too heavy for them. Suppose that you were to try any way.

If you stood behind the car, got a stable foot spacing, squatted down with your back straight, got a solid grip under the bumper, then tightenned your back and abs then slowly, gradually increased your effort until you were pulling as hard as possible, then slowly, gradually eased off, you might not lift the car, but you probably won't hurt yourself either.

If instead, you just bent down and grabbed the bumper and yanked as hard and fast as you could, there is a good chance you'll strain or tear something.

If the weight is too heavy, but you have perfect self discipline and simply do not compromise form, either you just won't be able to lift it, or you will fall far short of your target rep range.

Using a weight that is too heavy encourages the use of poor form, but does not guarantee it.

Drew Baye

 

[jvroig]

Yeah all excellent points

But it would generally be better advice and more straightforward to say:
"Umm... buddy, you are using too much weight, reduce them and you'll be able to avoid those joint problems you complain about"

rather than say:

"Well, that's because you need to keep proper form all the time." To which he'd probably ask, "But if the weight is so heavy and it seems impossible to always maintain perfect form what the heck should I do?". To which we would say something like "Well, your poor form, from my observation, is because you are struggling with the weight you are using. It is simply too much, so you end up having to sacrifice your form to complete your sets, so your joints take so much punishment that they really could have avoided" After that he'll probably come to the conclusion himself and blurt out "Oh, so I can simply reduce the weight, anyway sufficient deconditoning would always mean even lighter weights can induce hypertrophy, and by reducing the weight and not going crazy by choosing super heavy weights, I'll be better able to keep proper form all throughout, thanks!" .

Now, especially for newbies or anybody who might just be confused about it, the easier way would have been to simply say in the first place "Umm... buddy, you are using too much weight, reduce them and you'll be able to avoid those joint problems you complain about", so then the guy would immediately say "Oh, okie then, I'll reduce the weights" , and we solve the problem much faster and less confusing, since our point was just that, not really academic discourse about the matter.

Of course, the weakness of this argument is that I assume form is not the issue (which I always assume because assuming the opposite seems, to me, kinda like looking down on his skills) until the point is reached that his ego forces him to lift too much weight.

Also, had the scenario been different, and the direct question was "What really causes joint injuries?", then it would have been necessary to go through the more detailed expanded explanation, and anything less would simply be shameful.

Just my honest opinions of course, and nobody should take any of them as scientific laws
-JV

 

[vicious]

Quote[/b] ]There is anecdotal evidence supporting this, and a few studies. If this was such a useful method of prehab, though, wouldn't it be more widespread throughout the world of athletes? This is not something that I've heard or seen to be common practice.

Actually, it's already used in rehab. Whenever you see athletes working with rubber bands and mindlessly doing many repetitions, that's one of the reasons why. The ligaments and tendons adapts less quickly to strain than muscle, and also they can decondition fairly quickly without frequent enough stimulus. If a strength athlete is rapidly increasing training weight, the peak tension of the muscle goes up rapidly, which in turn rapidly increases the pulling stress upon the tissue.

cheers,
Jules