Protein as first/last meal

I

imported_daxie

Guest
After reading Fausto's reply here:

Here

I was wondering: why is it (according to Fausto ;-)) bad to have your protein first and last?

I'm currently making sure both my breakfast and before-bed-shake are protein rich. At evening to give my body as much nutrients as possible during the night, and in the morning to give it what it lacked during the night.

Or am I missing something completely?

Thnx,

daxie
 
Hmm...strange text from Fausto. You should eat more proteins towards the night. Last meal should mainly contain proteins and maybe some fat. You don`t need extra energy from carb. The proteins are needed to anabolism. Althoug in the morning it would be advisable to eat plenty of carbs to make your engine running
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tcup @ Sep. 23 2005,2:56)]Hmm...strange text from Fausto. You should eat more proteins towards the night. Last meal should mainly contain proteins and maybe some fat. You don`t need extra energy from carb. The proteins are needed to anabolism. Althoug in the morning it would be advisable to eat plenty of carbs to make your engine running
what I knew and thought, strange thing Fausto said indeed
 
i read that as...


morning = carbs AND protein. the carbs to help energize you throughout the day

night = high protein, keep away from carbs...
 
Hey guys

I could be wrong, but going by feel entirely I felt that at that time my body was not absorbing the protein as it should or I was giving it more than it needed, so it started "saving for later".

Not my intention at all. Could have also been that my metabolism was not fast enough to absorb it then, the early in the morning was compounded by a hefty bowl of porridge and then the protein powder.

The late night one was not being entirely absorbed by my metabolism.

What I am trying to say is that If I had taken it around my workout, it would have been better used up, at least faster
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But hey...if you have found it strange tehn by all means let teh cat out of the bag and let me learn.

My writing on this wall is never cast in stone, this is simply how I feel and from what I've read.....I then deduced!

Noy my intention to cause wondering thoughts, if I am wrong then by all means correct me...specifically where I went wrong.

Ah, also did not expend enough calories as I was a bit lazy with cardio!!!!!!!
 
Well, getting my protein shake before bed has always caused my metabolism to kick up in the night..

When I do have my shake, I wake up in the morning with a lot of hunger...

When I don't, I feel my body needs to wake up, and it takes a while to get the metabolism back on track...

So basically I just need it...

Thnx for the reply!
 
also is it better to take casien or whey at night or morning..is there a difference..they say whey is better post workout because its quicker absorbed,but that is based on an empty stomache.. and most bbrs never have an empty stomache..maybe morning time but not the rest of the day..so are we being ripped of by the people selling whey.
 
Slow proteins towards the night..it`s more slowly absorbed and gives more boost to your anabolims during those long hours during the night
 
I use a mix of proteins, so digestion times would be different...
@AaronF: cause I'm hungry when having it before bed, and not when not eating it. i know you think hunger isn't a measure for metabolism rate, but then what is? And to me it has been a good measure so far.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (9to5lifter @ Sep. 27 2005,4:48)]Slow protein before bed, fast protein immediately after the workout. Whey is a fast protein.
only on an empty stomach


Posted: Sep. 21 2005,12
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2

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Here are some facts about protein (facts in terms of generally accepted scientific ideas). These are just a few, but will help to illustrate the differences between whey and casein.

1) Whey protein is a quickly digested protein. It will stimulate amino acid oxidation and protein synthesis. It has no effect on proteolysis (the breakdown of bodily proteins).

2) Casein is more slowly digested and also stimulates amino acid oxidation and protein synthesis, but to a lesser degree than whey. Casein strongly inhibits proteolysis. These properties result in casein consumption increasing the net gain of protein when compared to whey. In other words, you end up with more protein in your system when you consume whey.


Many of the facts in number 2 are not mentioned by the proponents of whey only powders. The primary thrust for whey only products is the idea that one should consume it directly after a workout due to its quick absorbtion property. In theory this is a good idea, but it fails in real life.

When we consume anything it is travels to our stomach. Once there, the stomach provides mechanical digestion by churning the foods. The only appreciable chemical digestion that occurs in the stomach is from pepsin which begins breaking down protein molecules. To make a long story short, depending on what was consumed it can take up to 4 hours for our stomach to empty.

The stomach turns our food into "chyme". This chyme is then dumped into the duodenum for further digestion and absorbtion to begin. The duodenum controls the rate of stomach emptying by chemical and stretch mechanisms. Fatty foods can slow this process to a great degree and cause our stomach to take 6 hours or more to empty.

So, we are looking at 6 or more hours for our stomach to empty when we consume a highly fatty meal. Most Americans consume a fair amount of fat in their diets and that includes off-season bodybuilders. Even meals with low fat can take 2-3 hours to empty the stomach.

Now, most bodybuilders eat up to 6 times per day. That means their stomach is almost never empty throughout the day. Thus, when they consume a post-workout whey shake they are not going to receive the purported benefits of the whey shake because their stomach is not totally empty and this will slow down the absorbtion of the whey.

It has been shown by Boirie et. al that the addition of fats and carbohydrates to a whey protein meal will attenuate (slow down ) the absorbtion of whey. This will essentially nullify the unique benefits of the whey only shake.

So, don't believe the hype ladies and gentlemen
 
Br J Nutr 2003 Feb;89(2):239-48 Related Articles, Links

Casein and whey exert different effects on plasma amino acid profiles, gastrointestinal hormone secretion and appetite.

Hall WL, Millward DJ, Long SJ, Morgan LM.

Centre for Nutrition and Food Safety, School of Biomedical and Life Sciences, University of Surrey, Guildford, Surrey GU2 7XH. [email protected]

Protein, generally agreed to be the most satiating macronutrient, may differ in its effects on appetite depending on the protein source and variation in digestion and absorption.

We investigated the effects of two milk protein types, casein and whey, on food intake and subjective ratings of hunger and fullness, and on postprandial metabolite and gastrointestinal hormone responses.

Two studies were undertaken. The first study showed that energy intake from a buffet meal ad libitum was significantly less 90 min after a 1700 kJ liquid preload containing 48 g whey, compared with an equivalent casein preload (P<0.05).

In the second study, the same whey preload led to a 28 % increase in postprandial plasma amino acid concentrations over 3 h compared with casein (incremental area under the curve (iAUC), P<0.05). Plasma cholecystokinin (CCK) was increased by 60 % (iAUC, P<0.005), glucagon-like peptide (GLP)-1 by 65 % (iAUC, P<0.05) and glucose-dependent insulinotropic polypeptide by 36 % (iAUC, P<0.01) following the whey preload compared with the casein.

Gastric emptying was influenced by protein type as evidenced by differing plasma paracetamol profiles with the two preloads. Greater subjective satiety followed the whey test meal (P<0.05).

These results implicate post-absorptive increases in plasma amino acids together with both CCK and GLP-1 as potential mediators of the increased satiety response to whey and emphasise the importance of considering the impact of protein type on the appetite response to a mixed meal.

PMID: 12575908
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


and


Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion.

Boirie Y, Dangin M, Gachon P, Vasson MP, Maubois JL, Beaufrere B.

Laboratoire de Nutrition Humaine, Universite Clermont Auvergne, Centre de Recherche en Nutrition Humaine, BP 321, 63009 Clermont-Ferrand Cedex 1, France.

The speed of absorption of dietary amino acids by the gut varies according to the type of ingested dietary protein. This could affect postprandial protein synthesis, breakdown, and deposition.
To test this hypothesis, two intrinsically 13C-leucine-labeled milk proteins, casein (CAS) and whey protein (WP), of different physicochemical properties were ingested as one single meal by healthy adults. Postprandial whole body leucine kinetics were assessed by using a dual tracer methodology.

WP induced a dramatic but short increase of plasma amino acids.

CAS induced a prolonged plateau of moderate hyperaminoacidemia, probably because of a slow gastric emptying.

Whole body protein breakdown was inhibited by 34% after CAS ingestion but not after WP ingestion.

Postprandial protein synthesis was stimulated by 68% with the WP meal and to a lesser extent (+31%) with the CAS meal.

Postprandial whole body leucine oxidation over 7 h was lower with CAS (272 +/- 91 micromol.kg-1) than with WP (373 +/- 56 micromol.kg-1). Leucine intake was identical in both meals (380 micromol.kg-1).

Therefore, net leucine balance over the 7 h after the meal was more positive with CAS than with WP (P < 0.05, WP vs. CAS).

In conclusion, the speed of protein digestion and amino acid absorption from the gut has a major effect on whole body protein anabolism after one single meal. By analogy with carbohydrate metabolism, slow and fast proteins modulate the postprandial metabolic response, a concept to be applied to wasting situations.

PMID: 9405716 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2004;13(Suppl):S64. Related Articles, Links


Acute effect of dietary proteins on appetite, energy intake and glycemic response in overweight men.

Bowen J, Noakes M, Clifton P, Jenkins A, Batterham M.

CSIRO Health Sciences and Nutrition, Adelaide, Australia.

Background - Dietary protein is thought to be the most satiating macronutrient. It is unclear if protein type affects appetite and energy intake. Objective - To investigate the role of whey and casein proteins, relative to high and low glycemic index carbohydrates (glucose and lactose, respectively) in appetite, energy intake and glycemic response. Design - Eighteen overweight men (53.4 +/- 1.5 y, BMI 32.2 +/- 0.9kg/m2) with impaired glucose tolerance (6.3 +/- 0.1mmol/L) consumed a liquid "breakfast" preload (~1 MJ, 50 g of whey protein isolate, calcium caseinate, lactose or glucose) and ate an ad libitum "buffet lunch" three hours later. Preloads were administered in a single blind, randomised order and separated by a seven day interval. Energy intake, visual analogue scale (VAS) ratings of appetite and post prandial glucose and insulin were measured 0, 15, 30, 45, 60, 90, 120 and 180 minutes after commencing the preload. Outcomes - There was a trend for lower ad libitum energy intake at lunch after the whey preload (4070 kJ +/- 293, casein 4343 +/- 301 kJ, glucose 4678 +/- 260, lactose 4122 +/- 234, P=0.06). VAS ratings of satiety, hunger, emptiness and desire to eat were not different between treatments (assessed by area under the curve, AUC, 0 -180 min). Post prandial glucose AUC was significantly lower after the whey and casein preloads compared to the carbohydrate based preloads (P=0.026), although post prandial insulin AUC was similar. Conclusions- Acute, ad libitum energy intake and subjective ratings of appetite are not affected by consumption of whey and casein liquid preloads. Similarly, energy intake and appetite are not influenced by protein or carbohydrate based preloads, despite different post-prandial glucose responses. This study was funded through the National Centre of Excellence for Functional Foods.
 
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