Protein powders - Amino acid
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imported_drpierredebs
Guest
I have read about 15 papers yesterday and today about whole protein intake, Amino Acid intake, the timing involved, protein synthesis and protein breakdown etc.........
It is very interesting and I am writing a sort of review for public consumption.
One thing that is very clear is that taking a mixture of Carbs, Whey and LEUCINE increases protein synthesis AND increases plasma insuline....ALOT. It also seems that this effect is WAY more pronounced when taken BEFORE the workout and the post exercise intake is almost negligible. Get it?------------------------------------------->low fat milk plus maybe a little Leucine
It is very interesting and I am writing a sort of review for public consumption.
One thing that is very clear is that taking a mixture of Carbs, Whey and LEUCINE increases protein synthesis AND increases plasma insuline....ALOT. It also seems that this effect is WAY more pronounced when taken BEFORE the workout and the post exercise intake is almost negligible. Get it?------------------------------------------->low fat milk plus maybe a little Leucine
I
imported_drpierredebs
Guest
The point being that Leucine is really the only Essential Amino acid that stimulates synthesis.
If its the one I am thinking of, it was a stupidly large quantity of protein, combined with a stupidly large quantity of leucine. And didnt provide any evidence of an advantage for adding leucine, or additional protein in general.
Combined ingestion of protein and free leucine with carbohydrate increases postexercise muscle protein synthesis in vivo in male subjects.
* Koopman R,
* Wagenmakers AJ,
* Manders RJ,
* Zorenc AH,
* Senden JM,
* Gorselink M,
* Keizer HA,
* van Loon LJ.
Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, PO Box 616, 6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. [email protected]
The present study was designed to determine postexercise muscle protein synthesis and whole body protein balance following the combined ingestion of carbohydrate with or without protein and/or free leucine. Eight male subjects were randomly assigned to three trials in which they consumed drinks containing either carbohydrate (CHO), carbohydrate and protein (CHO+PRO), or carbohydrate, protein, and free leucine (CHO+PRO+Leu) following 45 min of resistance exercise. A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-13C6]phenylalanine was applied, with blood samples and muscle biopsies collected to assess fractional synthetic rate (FSR) in the vastus lateralis muscle as well as whole body protein turnover during 6 h of postexercise recovery. Plasma insulin response was higher in the CHO+PRO+Leu compared with the CHO and CHO+PRO trials (+240 +/- 19% and +77 +/- 11%, respectively, P < 0.05). Whole body protein breakdown rates were lower, and whole body protein synthesis rates were higher, in the CHO+PRO and CHO+PRO+Leu trials compared with the CHO trial (P < 0.05). Addition of leucine in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial resulted in a lower protein oxidation rate compared with the CHO+PRO trial. Protein balance was negative during recovery in the CHO trial but positive in the CHO+PRO and CHO+PRO+Leu trials. In the CHO+PRO+Leu trial, whole body net protein balance was significantly greater compared with values observed in the CHO+PRO and CHO trials (P < 0.05). Mixed muscle FSR, measured over a 6-h period of postexercise recovery, was significantly greater in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial compared with the CHO trial (0.095 +/- 0.006 vs. 0.061 +/- 0.008%/h, respectively, P < 0.05), with intermediate values observed in the CHO+PRO trial (0.0820 +/- 0.0104%/h). We conclude that coingestion of protein and leucine stimulates muscle protein synthesis and optimizes whole body protein balance compared with the intake of carbohydrate only.
where the authors compared three groups
One with a grand total of 133.4grams of carbohydrates
One with 133.4grams of carbohydrate plus 88.8grams of whey
One with 133.4grams of carbohydrate plus 88.8grams of whey and 44.3grams of leucine
No caloric control
No isonitrogenous control
Other research looking at varying the amount of leucine in a set amount of amino acids has shown no real effect. Maybe for old people, but they are screwed to start with.
Combined ingestion of protein and free leucine with carbohydrate increases postexercise muscle protein synthesis in vivo in male subjects.
* Koopman R,
* Wagenmakers AJ,
* Manders RJ,
* Zorenc AH,
* Senden JM,
* Gorselink M,
* Keizer HA,
* van Loon LJ.
Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, PO Box 616, 6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. [email protected]
The present study was designed to determine postexercise muscle protein synthesis and whole body protein balance following the combined ingestion of carbohydrate with or without protein and/or free leucine. Eight male subjects were randomly assigned to three trials in which they consumed drinks containing either carbohydrate (CHO), carbohydrate and protein (CHO+PRO), or carbohydrate, protein, and free leucine (CHO+PRO+Leu) following 45 min of resistance exercise. A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-13C6]phenylalanine was applied, with blood samples and muscle biopsies collected to assess fractional synthetic rate (FSR) in the vastus lateralis muscle as well as whole body protein turnover during 6 h of postexercise recovery. Plasma insulin response was higher in the CHO+PRO+Leu compared with the CHO and CHO+PRO trials (+240 +/- 19% and +77 +/- 11%, respectively, P < 0.05). Whole body protein breakdown rates were lower, and whole body protein synthesis rates were higher, in the CHO+PRO and CHO+PRO+Leu trials compared with the CHO trial (P < 0.05). Addition of leucine in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial resulted in a lower protein oxidation rate compared with the CHO+PRO trial. Protein balance was negative during recovery in the CHO trial but positive in the CHO+PRO and CHO+PRO+Leu trials. In the CHO+PRO+Leu trial, whole body net protein balance was significantly greater compared with values observed in the CHO+PRO and CHO trials (P < 0.05). Mixed muscle FSR, measured over a 6-h period of postexercise recovery, was significantly greater in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial compared with the CHO trial (0.095 +/- 0.006 vs. 0.061 +/- 0.008%/h, respectively, P < 0.05), with intermediate values observed in the CHO+PRO trial (0.0820 +/- 0.0104%/h). We conclude that coingestion of protein and leucine stimulates muscle protein synthesis and optimizes whole body protein balance compared with the intake of carbohydrate only.
where the authors compared three groups
One with a grand total of 133.4grams of carbohydrates
One with 133.4grams of carbohydrate plus 88.8grams of whey
One with 133.4grams of carbohydrate plus 88.8grams of whey and 44.3grams of leucine
No caloric control
No isonitrogenous control
Other research looking at varying the amount of leucine in a set amount of amino acids has shown no real effect. Maybe for old people, but they are screwed to start with.
Oh, thankyouverymuch. I resemble that remark...!
They used a lot of protein allright; I doubt the subjects were 300lb men. And only 8 guys? I guess they only had two guys in the third group!
This statement kills me: "We conclude that coingestion of protein and leucine stimulates muscle protein synthesis and optimizes whole body protein balance compared with the intake of carbohydrate only."
Well, DUH!!!
They used a lot of protein allright; I doubt the subjects were 300lb men. And only 8 guys? I guess they only had two guys in the third group!
This statement kills me: "We conclude that coingestion of protein and leucine stimulates muscle protein synthesis and optimizes whole body protein balance compared with the intake of carbohydrate only."
Well, DUH!!!
<div>
(quadancer @ Jan. 03 2007,18:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Whey powder sales are sure to soar as soon as the word gets out that there are STEROIDS in it!
</div>
Yah, funny huh?
She really flipped when I took the creatine out of the cart and she had to ring it up. She said, "you know you are cheating, that sets such a terrible example for the kids, you are going to get them all hooked on steroids like you."
After that I replied, "I don't think my scrawny ass is going to get anyone hooked on steroids."
I fully expected to hear over the paging system, "roid rage on checkout line 3, security please respond."
This is evolving into an interesting thread though. I do hope that someone will put it all together and post a simple answer that says, "use aminos" or "use protein". Perhaps a two word summary of the evidence for those of us who go cross-eyed and blind when reading studies.
As I've said before, the only science I'm really interested in is eat+lift+sleep=grow. Now what to eat...that's a good question. I've got it pretty close to right but am open to other ideas sometimes. I'm gaining about 1/2lb a week again and staying lean enough. Don't want to go for enough to gain fat. If I can get a pound or twelve a week and stay lean from consuming something different - I'll be even happier.
Just milk isn't the answer. I'm using 1/2 gallon a day and still having to add whey to it.
(quadancer @ Jan. 03 2007,18:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Whey powder sales are sure to soar as soon as the word gets out that there are STEROIDS in it!
Yah, funny huh?
She really flipped when I took the creatine out of the cart and she had to ring it up. She said, "you know you are cheating, that sets such a terrible example for the kids, you are going to get them all hooked on steroids like you."
After that I replied, "I don't think my scrawny ass is going to get anyone hooked on steroids."
I fully expected to hear over the paging system, "roid rage on checkout line 3, security please respond."
This is evolving into an interesting thread though. I do hope that someone will put it all together and post a simple answer that says, "use aminos" or "use protein". Perhaps a two word summary of the evidence for those of us who go cross-eyed and blind when reading studies.
As I've said before, the only science I'm really interested in is eat+lift+sleep=grow. Now what to eat...that's a good question. I've got it pretty close to right but am open to other ideas sometimes. I'm gaining about 1/2lb a week again and staying lean enough. Don't want to go for enough to gain fat. If I can get a pound or twelve a week and stay lean from consuming something different - I'll be even happier.
Just milk isn't the answer. I'm using 1/2 gallon a day and still having to add whey to it.
scientific muscle
New Member
From the intelligence of that checkout lady....you must live WAAAAAY out in the mountains of WNC...
....only joking!
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Jan. 06 2007,15:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">From the intelligence of that checkout lady....you must live WAAAAAY out in the mountains of WNC...
....only joking!</div>
You are correct sir. Any further west, we'd be in Tennessee...now that's a scary place.
Or at least the parts I've been are.
(scientific muscle @ Jan. 06 2007,15:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">From the intelligence of that checkout lady....you must live WAAAAAY out in the mountains of WNC...
You are correct sir. Any further west, we'd be in Tennessee...now that's a scary place.
Or at least the parts I've been are.