RAW MEAT EATERS

Very interesting.

So when you buy the meat 1/4 cow or whatever. Do you freeze it and then defrost it to eat it?

What is the lesser of two evils, buying a piece of steak from the store and then cooking it medium rare with some blood or well done?

Just to make sure I understand. So when you eat raw meat does blood get all over your face or does that only happen when you slightly cook meat?

Serious questions. I like to keep an open mind about things. I don't know if would have the balls to eat raw meat, but the thought is pretty cool. I really hate cooking because then I have to wash dishes.

I would love for there to be more studies with this kind of diet and building muscle.
 
Tote,

You seem to be aggressively against this. That is fine if you do not agree but demonstrates ignorance to be so adament with something you havent studied.

Yes people can die of bacteria. No matter how healthy your immune system, if you live in an area (like the aftermath of New Orleans) external bacteria can drain your immune system and lead to illness and death. This is a far cry different from the small amount of natural occurring bacteria that is in raw healthy meat.

Also, unnatural strains of bacteria from feeding animals things they are not meant to eat are the big problems that you hear about killing people. It is very seldom "natural" bacteria kills people. And when it is it is almost always tied to cooked meat. This is no suprise as cooked meat lacks the enzymes necessary to kill off bacteria.

In fact, a good example is raw milk. Raw milk from 100% grass fed cows is so naturally healthy that you can actually drop ecoli into the milk and it will be killed quite quickly by the natural enzymes and things in the milk. However, pasteurized milk has caused numerous illness because it can no longer naturally fend off bacteria.

There are tons of doctors and scientists that have travelled the world and studied tribal societies. The healthiest ALWAYS ate raw meat and lots of raw fats. Dr. Weston Price is one such researcher. You can complain about bacteria all you want, and there are some concerns to be sure such as PROPERLY raised animals, but you cannot rail against the concept without fairly doing the research and studying the hundreds of societies that reguarly eat raw meat with great health.

As I said, many of these societies eat rancid meat to their great health. So, it isnt scientific to just say its bad without knowing why since they clearly are thriving. And as I said above and in other posts, eating commercial meats raw is quite a dangerous thing as there are some unnatural strains of bacteria there.

Point is, before you say something is wrong, it is a good idea to put in some research hours...even if it is easiest to side with the masses and just avoid anything else. At least then you make your choice as an informed person.

God Bless
Jeff
 
<div>
(wisslewj @ Apr. 18 2007,12:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Margoth,

As I said before, I am not here to win converts so I will not engage in &quot;fighting&quot; debate.  If you are interested in understanding the benefits of bacteria and hence raw foods, look at the link I gave on pleomorphism as that is a good start to understanding the science.  You can also read about people like Dr. Naessans (sp?) who mapped out the somatid cycle showing how bactria transmutates.

Your rants would be like me knocking HST without any understanding of the scicen behind it.  In fact, its only BECAUSE I understand the biochemical responses of muscle that I think its a good idea to try it as its based on sound principles.  There is no way for me to explain all the multitudes of biochemical responses and research of bacteria in a line or 2.  

I will help answer any questions, but as with anything, you can knock what you dont understand, ignore it, or seek out more info on it.  I dont care which you choose honestly.  But lets just be respectful of each other and not judge what we dont know or havent studied.  

Cussing at one another demonstrates ignorance and is really pointless.  Please lets just be civil and get along in a grown up fashion.

Thanks and God Bless
Jeff</div>
For someone so highly educated, you seem to lack basic understanding:I said credible, peer-reviewed, scientific studies backing up your mumbo-jumbo. 1. One. Is that too much to ask from your apparently infinite pool of wisdom? And the mature kindof adultish wanking about cussing etc.?Prove your points otherwise than through elaborate stuff that seems pulled from someone`s anal cavity and I`ll be the first to apologize.

Since it may not be clear what I`m talking about, I want to see something like these:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez...._docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez...._docsum

This one is of particular interest, as it proves how great bacteria is:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez...._docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez...._docsum

Raw meat is great for dogs, imagine how great it is for humans:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez...._DocSum

I`ve got a few more...though surely not as many as you do proving quite the opposite, right?
 
Kaos,

lol. I joked just like you at first. I was thinking raw meat sounded so gross. But like you, I was open minded and interested in the idea. I have studied biology, chemistry, physics, health and nutrition and the various biochemical responses now for at least 10 years. As such I didnt come to eating raw meat overnight. I needed the facts. Nice to hear people with open minds ask lol.

As for what we do, we buy a quarter cow, some chickens, a bit of lamb, some raw dairy, raw greens, raw honey and some occassional nuts.

We freeze the cow (unfortunately) and just thaw it out and eat it. (We cut it up with scissors to make it easy) We eat it with plenty of raw butter or raw animal fat or things like avocados.

Basically fat is the means by which many things get to the cells and so it is vital. Protein is so much better absorbed and used with fat. While I dont advocate any Protein powders for various reasons, one way to improve upon them is to eat them with raw fats. The difference is huge.

You can also transition like we did. Buy some organic eggs and eat those raw, the yolks especially. they are very good for you raw. Many bodybuilders past and still present chug these! And it is an easy way to start. Start small to test your immune system and progress from there. I eat about 6 a day and my wife 3.

There is some research about raw and bodybuilding but you are right that specific studies on muscle building are few and far between. But there are studies on the health benefits and anything that builds health will be good for building the body as well.

If you have specific questions about raw eggs or anything just ask. Hope tha thelps

jeff
 
Morgoth,

You seem to have missed the post where I said I am not here to convince you. I could post zillions of things, but why? The info is there for you to read if you just look yourself. And besides you dont really seem to care for knowledge sake.

One thing that I am sure you will be annoyed wit h that is still something that must be considered is that it is ILLEGAL to say that raw meat cures cancer. It is even illegal to say that an orange will cure scurvey.

That is thanks to the big Pharma lobbying. In any event you will not find any &quot;peer reviewed&quot; evidence that shows that it cures cancer. (or anything for that matter) All you will find is tons of doctors all over the world who have helped peoples own bodies via the immune system get over cancer, diabetes, etc. and tons of people who are ready to say they have been cured. Some of these people I even know personally.

However, if you search you will find plenty of studies that meet your specs on the denaturing of food with heat, the immune response, etc. You cannot understand why raw meat is good in the depths you want to without knowing the biochenical reactions in the body, understanding pleomorphism and a host of other things. (and I cannot explain all this in a chat forum) You can study that on your own if you are so inclined and I can even direct you to some good books and sites that will get you started. If not, thats ok too, just ignore the conversation.

I truely dont understand your need to rant and rave unless you just like stirring up trouble? Whatever, it makes no difference to me, just dont be offended if I ignore you from here on out unless you are more civil. The fact is one side says bacteria is bad, one says it isnt and thrives eating it. A wise man would attempt to understand both sides (which means knowing bioogy and chemistry) before choosing a side. In any event...

God Bless and have a good one,
Jeff
 
Cool thanks for the info. wisslewj Raw eggs do seem like it would be the easier way to get started. I'll have to do much more research about these types of diets, but interesting non the less.

I did the atkins diet last year I liked it. I just stayed on the induction period too long and I would have been better off if I would have eaten more vegetables and possibly adding more carbs to my diet by way of fruits and such. A majority of what I ate was bacon, sausage, eggs, and low carb burgers from fast food joints. I would try to eat vegetables here and there, but not nearly enough so I just supplemented with fiber pills.

Not to bug, but is medium rare better than a well done steak? Assuming the steak is store bought and who knows what the cows were fed that gave me that steak.
 
<div>
(wisslewj @ Apr. 18 2007,18:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You seem to be aggressively against this. That is fine if you do not agree but demonstrates ignorance to be so adament with something you havent studied.</div>
Did you miss the part where I said I know an awful lot about bacteria and foodborne illnesses, due to being in the food industry? It is part of my job to be trained in this matter.

All that said, it is pretty easy to do the research. You can look around on pubmed. Even a basic search will show you how dangerous raw stuff can be. Sure, some specific meats eaten raw may not be extremely dangerous, but there is still an unnecessary risk associated with eating raw meats.
 
<div>
(Morgoth the Dark Enemy @ Apr. 18 2007,11:50)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">3. Eating raw-meat is gross and pointless, unless you`re also wearing a leopard skin and swinging a club in order to scare off wooly mammoths.</div>
Hmmm

Roughly 1.6-2 million years ago H. Erectus appeared, fire was controlled eventually, way before H. Sapien sapien came around. Oddly enough has anyone wondered how and or why this species of man became monogamous (for the most part). Could it be because they learned how to control fire and cook, not only tubers and other fiber heavy plant stuff, but also meat? Some very prominent anthropologists think so.

Perhaps the old adage &quot;the way to a man's heart is through his stomach&quot; actually goes back millions of years.

My point, even early man cooked his food, including meat.

So if you want to eat it raw go right ahead, I prefer mine medium rare, with some garlic, lemon jest, and sauteed mushrooms, slathered in some A-1. A nice baked tater on the side with a bowl of greens and an ice cold iced tea (sweetened with Splenda of course).

Ok back to the battle
biggrin.gif
 
I think most all of us who've had anything to do with farms, ranches, or anyplace raising livestock would rather have our meat cooked. Oddly enough though, farmhands have really good immune systems from all the bacteria and germs they handle and inhale. Just knowing how NASTY a cow is before slaughter is enough to convince anyone to cook it first.
 
Quad,

I buy mine from a local grassfed farm and know what they look like gutted lol. They ARE gross! However, I am far less grossed out these days as when I started.

And you are correct in noting that most farmers have good immune systems from being exposed to the bacteria. Many people that bulk at the bacteria in raw meat and such fail to realise (or just dont think about) that it was bacteria that spawned our first &quot;antibiotics&quot;.

Penicilin was based on a mold. As we see, mold and bacterias can stimulate health. Pleomorphism is really the crux to understanding this and how bacteria works.

Dan,

The research I have read shows that man almost always ate the organs raw right after the kill. Certain ones like the adrenal gland, which is loaded in Vit C, were taken back and shared with the community. We can even see this today as the few tribal type peoples still around today almost all eat their organ meats raw.

Muscle was usually buried and allowed to ferment so as to &quot;tenderize: it as raw muscle is tougher then organs. However, with the advent of fire, the muscle did begin to be cooked. However the organs did remain raw much as they still are today.

In any event, I too like my steak like you and on occassion will eat it just that way! In fact most dont realize this, but grass fed raw meat actually tastes the same as when its cooked. (least it does to me lol) So marinating it in some lemon and such and using some steak sauce just makes it taste like a cooked steak. (actually marinated steak technically is &quot;cooked&quot; because the lemon activates the enzymes and does &quot;cook&quot; it)

Tote,

I am not trying to be rude to ya. I just want you to understand that there are ALOT of cultures eating raw meats with no ill affect. They are actually thriving on it. This means that the traditional explanation of it being &quot;deadly&quot; cannot be right. If it was so intrinsically deadly, the human race would have died long ago and so woud the people that eat the raw meat today. yet this isnt the reality. Hence, the cases of illness must be the cause of something else. And in fact it is. It is the result of unnatural bacterias from messing with nature, GMO's as well as a few other things.

My point is I agree with you that waht you see IS bad. I wouldnt eat it cooked or raw. But properlly raised cows are quite different as I explained somewhere else in here.

God Bless this mess
smile.gif

Jeff
 
I am half lebanese/half italian and I grew up eating raw meat. all lebanese eat raw lamb. and some of the organs raw. I never heard of, or had any problems. No one I one I know ever became ill eating these raw meats. We also ate carpaccio-raw beef, two or three times a week-same deal. No illness.

If the animal is healthy before finishing, I see no problem with eating almost any part of said animal raw. If the animal is raised in some commercial, mass farm, I wouldn´t eat it cooked.

Raw Lamb as prepared by the lebanese is friggin delicious.
Carpaccio melts in your mouth. Can you say B12-Creatine shot!
 
<div>
(wisslewj @ Apr. 18 2007,18:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Morgoth,

You seem to have missed the post where I said I am not here to convince you.  I could post zillions of things, but why?  The info is there for you to read if you just look yourself.  And besides you dont really seem to care for knowledge sake.

One thing that I am sure you will be annoyed wit h  that is still something that must be considered is that it is ILLEGAL to say that raw meat cures cancer.  It is even illegal to say that an orange will cure scurvey.

That is thanks to the big Pharma lobbying.  In any event you will not find any &quot;peer reviewed&quot; evidence that shows that it cures cancer.  (or anything for that matter) All you will find is tons of doctors all over the world who have helped peoples own bodies via the immune system get over cancer, diabetes, etc. and tons of people who are ready to say they have been cured.  Some of these people I even know personally.

However, if you search you will find plenty of studies that meet your specs on the denaturing of food with heat, the immune response, etc.  You cannot understand why raw meat is good in the depths you want to without knowing the biochenical reactions in the body, understanding pleomorphism and a host of other things.  (and I cannot explain all this in a chat forum) You can study that on your own if you are so inclined and I can even direct you to some good books and sites that will get you started.  If not, thats ok too, just ignore the conversation.  

I truely dont understand your need to rant and rave unless you just like stirring up trouble?  Whatever, it makes no difference to me, just dont be offended if I ignore you from here on out unless you are more civil.  The fact is one side says bacteria is bad, one says it isnt and thrives eating it.  A wise man would attempt to understand both sides (which means knowing bioogy and chemistry) before choosing a side.  In any event...

God Bless and have a good one,
Jeff</div>
Now you`ve really broken my heart. For the third and last time:post 1, one, uno study out of the zillions of things. Arguments like doctors all around the world do it, I have a greater understanding through quantum mechanics study etc. don`t do jack squat for me. Only evidence works. There are tons of ppl who got coffee enemas, who did pot, who say that drinking some guru`s urine is the hawt etc. It has little relevance on reality, the placebo effect is probably one of the strongest things in existence.

The part about a wise man's needs...I think it is fallacious to consider oneself wise, as wisdom should be a continually moving target. And to your complete surprise(and this will generate a comment along the lines of how I actually don`t understand the complex science you`re alluding to but are unable to post because it`s so complex-if it makes you happy to believe that, ok), I do get your argument, I`ve heard it before from ppl who actually were more prepared to endorse it, and I still feel it`s crap, science proves it to be crap, anecdotal evidence proves it to be crap, a few thousand years(at least, read what Dan posted) of cheerful human evolution based on cooked denaturated food proves it to be crap.

Final note, if you didn`t want to debate, you would`ve just posted:I eat raw meat and it`s great, it`s making me hyooge!, not long-winded posts about some secret biochemistry, obscure work on pleomorphism and your incredible intrinsic understanding of the human body, so please, don`t urinate on my leg and tell me it`s raining. If you can prove your point outside of your own ranting, by supporting it in something actually solid, great. I won`t hold my breath on it though. And now, please do exert you obvious academic superiority by making a whiny post about how I`m a raving prick and how you`re going to ignore me into oblivion. And do just that...don`t worry, I`m leaving your thread alone as what I wanted to discover has already been exposed. Cheers.
 
Just a few points...
1. [/B]Flame grilled wisslewj , anyone?
rock.gif


2. Kids - My lads are healthy, fit &amp; about 8-10% BFM (12&amp;14yo's) The were breast fed, allowed to &quot;get mucky&quot; playing when younger and never encouraged to wash their hands after the toilet - they rarely if ever get ill and they &quot;bounce&quot; when they fall off their bikes!

3. Eating raw meat may be healthy - when the source is reliable &amp; trust worthy; (I'll leave it at that)

'Roid rage is nothin: woe be tide anyone that gets in the way of my friday morning Egg/Bacon/Sausage/Black pudding sandwich!
laugh.gif
 
Hey drpierre

I have never heard of Carpaccio before. I usually just cut my beef into cubes and honker down lol. Do you have a recipe that you use?

And I am in total agreement with ya about commercial meat. I wouldnt even touch that cooked or raw with Margoths mouth lol.
tounge.gif


Anyway, can ya post me the recipe for that stuff?

Hey Dark,

Is that quote about black pudding blood pudding? Are those the same or am I getting my recipes mixed up? Just curious as I have heard some make pudding from blood and wondered what it tasted like lol.

Jeff
 
<div>
(wisslewj @ Apr. 18 2007,22:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quad,

I buy mine from a local grassfed farm and know what they look like gutted lol.  They ARE gross!  However, I am far less grossed out these days as when I started.

And you are correct in noting that most farmers have good immune systems from being exposed to the bacteria.  Many people that bulk at the bacteria in raw meat and such fail to realise (or just dont think about) that it was bacteria that spawned our first &quot;antibiotics&quot;.

Penicilin was based on a mold.  As we see, mold and bacterias can stimulate health.  Pleomorphism is really the crux to understanding this and how bacteria works.

Dan,

The research I have read shows that man almost always ate the organs raw right after the kill.  Certain ones like the adrenal gland, which is loaded in Vit C, were taken back and shared with the community.  We can even see this today as the few tribal type peoples still around today almost all eat their organ meats raw.

Muscle was usually buried and allowed to ferment so as to &quot;tenderize: it as raw muscle is tougher then organs.  However, with the advent of fire, the muscle did begin to be cooked.  However the organs did remain raw much as they still are today.

In any event, I too like my steak like you and on occassion will eat it just that way!  In fact most dont realize this, but grass fed raw meat actually tastes the same as when its cooked. (least it does to me lol)  So marinating it in some lemon and such and using some steak sauce just makes it taste like a cooked steak.  (actually marinated steak technically is &quot;cooked&quot; because the lemon activates the enzymes and does &quot;cook&quot; it)

Tote,

I am not trying to be rude to ya.  I just want you to understand that there are ALOT of cultures eating raw meats with no ill affect.  They are actually thriving on it.  This means that the traditional explanation of it being &quot;deadly&quot; cannot be right.  If it was so intrinsically deadly, the human race would have died long ago and so woud the people that eat the raw meat today.  yet this isnt the reality.  Hence, the cases of illness must be the cause of something else.  And in fact it is.  It is the result of unnatural bacterias from messing with nature, GMO's as well as a few other things.

My point is I agree with you that waht you see IS bad.  I wouldnt eat it cooked or raw.  But properlly raised cows are quite different as I explained somewhere else in here.

God Bless this mess
smile.gif

Jeff</div>
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The research I have read shows that man almost always ate the organs raw right after the kill. Certain ones like the adrenal gland, which is loaded in Vit C, were taken back and shared with the community. We can even see this today as the few tribal type peoples still around today almost all eat their organ meats raw. </div>And I do not doubt this at all but again there is also discovered incidences of vitamin A intoxication from eating raw carnivore livers. But these are few and far between, meaning either 1. early man did not eat that many carnivore livers or 2. They generally did cook them, which removes the excess Vitamin A.

The thing is there is no documented proof that early man ate their meat either raw or cooked as there generally is no remaining early man to tell us.

I personally don't see anything wrong with it, not that I would do it.

As far as what TDM and Quad said, we also allowed our son's to eat dirt, roll in the dust and play outside. Our son's had one incidence of contracting the flu in their entire life (they are now in the 20's) but it was from school not playing and just being boys. My mother in law drove me nuts, &quot;wash their hands&quot;, &quot;don't let them play int he dirt&quot; . Bullshit, let em play and get dirty, that's what bath time is for.

Sing it with me now..........Rubber Ducky you're the one

You make bath time oh so fun...........
 
Jeff - yep pudding made from blood, you'll no be avin any though, 'tis pigs blood (like most things - tastes better if made/bought locally)

Just to add to the kid thing; my nephew's mom only allows him at best what could be descibed as a &quot;beige&quot; vegetarian diet. I commented on this to my wife - for a veggie you don't see any broccoli/curly kale/sprouts etc
rock.gif

Lil' bugger - if he aint being arsy, disobedient  or cheeky, he's either asleep or in bed ill (sad to say his skin is crap n'all - even without any sweets)

Jees that kid needs a weekend at TDM's
laugh.gif
 
Dark,

lol you are so right about kids getting out and playing in the dirt and stuff. I know since I have started eating raw meat, my constitution has went way up. My wife and I NEVER get sick despite everyone around us having cold, flu etc. (The benefits of a powerful immune system!)

So how does one make this black pudding? I have lots of cows blood that comes from my raw beef. Perhaps I could use this to make the black pudding? How would I make this stuff?

I assumed you were maybe English as I thought that was an English dish and most native americans are paranoid to eat the stuff lol. Am I correct? I know a few raw eaters over in the UK that have mentioned black pudding and I have always thought about trying it.

Finally, there are so many studies that show that what kids eat affects their behavior immensely. (adults as well) It has even been shown that vegetarians are the typically agressive ones due to what that diet does to the chemistry of the body. You need to sneak them kids some of yer puddin!
smile.gif


Jeff
 
The Goodies BBC 1975: &quot;...Bill reveals he is a master of the ancient Lancashire martial art of Ecky-Thump. The effectiveness of Ecky- Thump leads to a craze sweeping the nation, which Bill intends to exploit by taking over t'Parliament. The only way to stop him is by adding remote control his secret weapon - black puddings.&quot;

I am indeed from England, but Yorkshire NOT Lancashire! (Spit)

Don't know about makin yer own - Try here
 
<div>
(wisslewj @ Apr. 19 2007,09:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey drpierre

I have never heard of Carpaccio before.  I usually just cut my beef into cubes and honker down lol.  Do you have a recipe that you use?

And I am in total agreement with ya about commercial meat.  I wouldnt even touch that cooked or raw with Margoths mouth lol.  
tounge.gif


Anyway, can ya post me the recipe for that stuff?

Hey Dark,

Is that quote about black pudding blood pudding?  Are those the same or am I getting my recipes mixed up?  Just curious as I have heard some make pudding from blood and wondered what it tasted like lol.

Jeff</div>
http://www.cipriani.com/cipriani/Consigli/carpaccioe.htm

tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpaccio

go to any good italian resteraunt and order it.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It has even been shown that vegetarians are the typically agressive ones due to what that diet does to the chemistry of the body.</div>
Give me a break!  I have gotten a bunch of chuckles from this thread, but it was clearly not something I wanted to get into.  However, on this one, I have to take the stance of Morgoth: show me where this &quot;has been shown&quot; in some reliable source.  Even if there is some actual peer-reviewed study somewhere, I am willing to bet that it was a small sample (probably taken by someone with an agenda) and would be a stretch to apply to the general populace.  Such a study would have to demonstrate two things:

(1) That vegetarians are more aggressive.
(2) That this is due to body chemistry, not some other factor (such as social ridicule for kids).

Otherwise, keep arguing with the other omnivores and leave us vegetarians out of it.
 
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