Rethinking Hst

Jester said:
But you aren't progressing at all ...
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Meaning? This is still 7-rep loads, I have 6 & 5 rep to go. Dips are definitely new (35kgx5), so are deads (145x5), so are standing BB presses (45x10), this generally relates to every exercise that builds up enough reps in initial lighter workouts that later spills over to heavier loads with fewer reps. Still I'm not quite like you trying to carry +25-30kg "excess" weight naturally, and am still losing some of the extra fat I got, which doesn't facilitate faster strength gains. Besides, the research I linked to showed that doing higher rep (up to 30RM) training lean mass can be gained equally well with less strength gained, in trained individuals. Hence there's some merit in doing more reps with lighter loads to save on time spent in the gym (for someone interested in mass more than in strength).
 
HST_Rihad said:
Meaning? This is still 7-rep loads, I have 6 & 5 rep to go. Dips are definitely new (35kgx5), so are deads (145x5), so are standing BB presses (45x10), this generally relates to every exercise that builds up enough reps in initial lighter workouts that later spills over to heavier loads with fewer reps. Still I'm not quite like you trying to carry +25-30kg "excess" weight naturally, and am still losing some of the extra fat I got, which doesn't facilitate faster strength gains. Besides, the research I linked to showed that doing higher rep (up to 30RM) training lean mass can be gained equally well with less strength gained, in trained individuals. Hence there's some merit in doing more reps with lighter loads to save on time spent in the gym (for someone interested in mass more than in strength).
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Not entirely sure how you think my bodyweight and strength is impacting on yours ... but if you need a crux/distraction, you're welcome to use it. Fair to say that once again you're deflecting (ala what @Blade was talking about).

The other point is make is that you have minimal fat left to lose. Sooner or later you surely want to actually gain some muscle, even if it does come along with fat (genetics, p-ratio, inevitability etc.).
 
Progress in training is what recomposes your body to shift more of the incoming calories into lean mass rather than fat mass. There's nothing more to it and our bodyweight is a function of how much we eat. It makes no sense to pre-eat anything to add any unwanted weight, a more proper way would be to reach a certain low %bf you're pleased with and from then on increase BW by small bits occasionally, while progressing in your training. That way you make sure to look the most athletic you can, and not simply "big" in clothes.
 
HST_Rihad said:
Progress in training is what recomposes your body to shift more of the incoming calories into lean mass rather than fat mass. There's nothing more to it and our bodyweight is a function of how much we eat. It makes no sense to pre-eat anything to add any unwanted weight, a more proper way would be to reach a certain low %bf you're pleased with and from then on increase BW by small bits occasionally, while progressing in your training. That way you make sure to look the most athletic you can, and not simply "big" in clothes.
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Sounds backwards to me, but if a glacial pace is what you're happy with then obviously stick with it.


But again, and separately, you're still missing the point that the problem hasn't been with the programs - it's been your implementation. SD has worked for countless people. Myo-reps has also worked for countless people. Heavy loads have worked for countless people.

At the end of the day, it's 18months later and your progression is all fat loss. Congrats for that, but you can't honestly tell everyone here that you have a muscle mass that you're satisfied with.
 
Jester said:
Sounds backwards to me, but if a glacial pace is what you're happy with then obviously stick with it.
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It's hardly backwards to reach & maintain lean looks the entire time. It may be backwards for people interested in absolute strength gains, but generally it isn't.

But again, and separately, you're still missing the point that the problem hasn't been with the programs - it's been your implementation. SD has worked for countless people. Myo-reps has also worked for countless people. Heavy loads have worked for countless people.
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Research hasn't specifically confirmed that SD is anything other than losing & recovering the lost muscle with the previous loads. RBE lasts for months, up to a year. Simple de-loads seem to be just as effective and you don't lose as much ground in bodycomp. I will only be glad if future research proves SD to be what Bryan wanted it to be.
Myo-reps didn't work for me for higher reps. Sure I saved some time doing the incline push-ups. But I didn't get stronger doing incline bench in the gym. I might give it a go sometime, not sure.
Heavy rack pulls probably did work for my traps & lower back, didn't have a chance to use them anywhere else.
It's important to note that progress is important, not a specific load. It makes little use to push against a weight you can't move.

At the end of the day, it's 18months later and your progression is all fat loss. Congrats for that, but you can't honestly tell everyone here that you have a muscle mass that you're satisfied with.
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I know, training progress wasn't the primary goal the whole time, less BF is just as important for the looks.
 
HST_Rihad said:
Myo-reps didn't work for me for higher reps. Sure I saved some time doing the incline push-ups. But I didn't get stronger doing incline bench in the gym. I might give it a go sometime, not sure.
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Was that just a one off attempt at myo reps?
 
mickc1965 said:
No wonder your incline bench didn't improve, your pecs were probably f**ked!!!!
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See Blade's 4-7 day per week setup, utilizing low rep strengh days, moderate rep volume BB-days, and higher rep myo-rep days.
http://www.elitefts.com/education/training/reignite-progress-with-new-science

I know that up to 1000 pushups don't quite fit in, but I also did a seated-rows improvisation at home with rubberbanditz using the prescribed 35-50 total rep range twice per week (5 days per week combined with heavier seated rows in the gym), with no measurable results, nothing I couldn't have done without the 35-50 stuff.
 
Yeah, you completely missed my point if you worked up to 1000 reps on pushups. Strength is also specific, so incline pushups may not have a lot of transference effect to incline bench. Hell, even DB Bench has little correlation to BB Bench.

But all this rationalizing is making my head hurt. I am done with this thread.
 
In my experience...

HST Principles - adds muscle
Myo Reps - adds muscle
Good Diet - adds muscle

Our bodies are all a little different, but Blade and all these other guys know what they are talking about mostly. I disagree with a few slight things like using isolation exercises, but that is bye the way...

In the end, what worked for me was talking to these guys, researching articles like Blade's article etc and then just consistently implementing things (without constantly changing things around).

Just my opinion, take what you care to...
 
Blade said:
I think you need to be reminded that my intial reaction was to your comment that my advice should not be listened to because I am on TRT and have been using AAS in the past (even though I also pointed out that I got better results off everything while doing HST). This was a logical fallacy, and it was very obvious that you projected your own insecurities and lack of results with Myo-reps, HST, and apparently training in general, whereas the problem is your tendency to overthink and botch the basics. I have trained thousands of clients, and you will find people all over the world using my methods with great success. So again, the problem isn’t the method, it is your implementation of it - and the combination of stress, nutrition and training (you seem to be lacking in all areas).

I will grant you some leeway, and simply point out two things: Myo-reps shines at higher reps, and isn’t really needed at lower reps (5-10 reps). These days I will do at least 15 reps on the activation set and up to 20-30 reps. There is also a dose-response relationship where doing more isn’t always better...quite the contrary.

I have covered this and other topics in my article here: http://www.elitefts.com/education/training/reignite-progress-with-new-science/
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This is VERY cool... Many thanks Blade... I would welcome chatting to and learning more from you any time...
 
HST_Rihad said:
Absolutely essential. Only the load range it is sufficient in is still open to debate. Getting stronger in your 20-30RM is also progressive overload.
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I'm fairly certain that a century of odd-lifts and powerlifting have debunked that it's still open to debate.
 
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