rotator cuff?
- Thread starter xarfox
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Bulldog
Active Member
If you have any pain while doing the military press then I would stop until you get your should problem straightened out. Here's why....
Shoulder prolbems durring the military press usually come from shortened internal rotators and weak external rotators. Especially if you do the military presses behind your head. be sure you are stretching your chest good as mentioned earlier in this thread as well as doing the external rotator exercises. Because if you don't correct any shortened internal rotator problems your external rotators will always be fighting them with overhead pressing movements.
Shoulder prolbems durring the military press usually come from shortened internal rotators and weak external rotators. Especially if you do the military presses behind your head. be sure you are stretching your chest good as mentioned earlier in this thread as well as doing the external rotator exercises. Because if you don't correct any shortened internal rotator problems your external rotators will always be fighting them with overhead pressing movements.
''Shoulder prolbems durring the military press usually come from shortened internal rotators and weak external rotators.''
Ok cool, I am doing charles poliquins cuban-esque rotator exercise this page's exercise number 2. http://familydoctor.org/265.xml
I have stopped close grip benching (in favour of overhead skullcrushers) and barbell military pressing. I am also stretching my shoulders after my workouts. Is there anything else I can do?
Ok cool, I am doing charles poliquins cuban-esque rotator exercise this page's exercise number 2. http://familydoctor.org/265.xml
I have stopped close grip benching (in favour of overhead skullcrushers) and barbell military pressing. I am also stretching my shoulders after my workouts. Is there anything else I can do?
im so gutted!i aint been to the gym in 3 weeks,why?well apart from having the flu i injured my rotator cuff!!!!
the worse part is i take warming up seriously,so i was so pissed when i hurt it warming up/stretching.
still hurts but going back to the gym,gonna work through it nice and slow.
the worse part is i take warming up seriously,so i was so pissed when i hurt it warming up/stretching.
still hurts but going back to the gym,gonna work through it nice and slow.
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(Bulldog @ May 26 2007,13:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What do you guys think of doing RC work during SD? I'm thinking it should be ok since I'm not really trying to produce hypertrophy per say in the cuff muscles.</div>
If you do this, the RC muscles will not properly SD. So they will not hypertrophy on the next HST cycle. Who cares?
BTW, here are some other articles stating that you should ignore RC exercises and focus on Push-ups and some other exercises:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1426252&pageNo=0
Push-Ups, Face Pulls, and Shrugs...for Strong and Healthy Shoulders!
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1465613
"Even just working some push-up variations in during the warm-up period or on off-days can dramatically improve shoulder health."
3-4 months ago I had problem on my right shoulder. I had to rest for some time. I started this HST cycle and I incorporated the above exercises. Maybe it was the 15s, I don't know. But my shoulders now are whithout any problems and my BB military press (bar touches the top of the chest) is about 53 kgr 5RM. It feels strong.
Don't ask me about the BP though. Because I trained push-ups insted of BP, my BP seems very weak now.
(Bulldog @ May 26 2007,13:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What do you guys think of doing RC work during SD? I'm thinking it should be ok since I'm not really trying to produce hypertrophy per say in the cuff muscles.</div>
If you do this, the RC muscles will not properly SD. So they will not hypertrophy on the next HST cycle. Who cares?
BTW, here are some other articles stating that you should ignore RC exercises and focus on Push-ups and some other exercises:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1426252&pageNo=0
Push-Ups, Face Pulls, and Shrugs...for Strong and Healthy Shoulders!
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1465613
"Even just working some push-up variations in during the warm-up period or on off-days can dramatically improve shoulder health."
3-4 months ago I had problem on my right shoulder. I had to rest for some time. I started this HST cycle and I incorporated the above exercises. Maybe it was the 15s, I don't know. But my shoulders now are whithout any problems and my BB military press (bar touches the top of the chest) is about 53 kgr 5RM. It feels strong.
Don't ask me about the BP though. Because I trained push-ups insted of BP, my BP seems very weak now.
WOOF! That went way beyond the 7 minute cuff solution. Since I've been getting bored with the rotator exersizes and still hurt a lot, (I've been skipping some of them) I'll be looking forward to trying some face pulls and overhead presses!
I have my doubts about pushups. That's just a lightweight bench. Feet up? Incline bench with no real weight.
I have my doubts about pushups. That's just a lightweight bench. Feet up? Incline bench with no real weight.
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(quadancer @ May 26 2007,20:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have my doubts about pushups. That's just a lightweight bench. Feet up? Incline bench with no real weight.</div>
I am not a great bencher. But I had trouble completing 10 pushups with 15 kgr hanging from my neck. Hands and feet were supported on chairs, so they were strict and wide range.
Try one hand push ups. I can do 7-8 at most.
(quadancer @ May 26 2007,20:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have my doubts about pushups. That's just a lightweight bench. Feet up? Incline bench with no real weight.</div>
I am not a great bencher. But I had trouble completing 10 pushups with 15 kgr hanging from my neck. Hands and feet were supported on chairs, so they were strict and wide range.
Try one hand push ups. I can do 7-8 at most.
Yeah Bob, but if you're weighting them, why not just do bench? I don't see much difference in the movement. I can do maybe 50-60 regular pushups at any given time, so maybe the same as you in strength with weights but I don't see the point they tried to make.
Now that pushing off of a ball may use some of the synergistic musculature, which in this case is rotators, but they're more in a stabilization mode than lifting, as with the face pulls. And we all know that isometrics are crap compared to movements.
Now that pushing off of a ball may use some of the synergistic musculature, which in this case is rotators, but they're more in a stabilization mode than lifting, as with the face pulls. And we all know that isometrics are crap compared to movements.
Bulldog
Active Member
Quad, I think their point about the push-ups was that they will help work the muscles that pull the scapula forward. Where in a bench you would typically keep them retracted and pulled tight together. I think the idea is that they will even out the musculature that moves and stabilizes the scapula. Which actually might be part of my problem.
Check out this article....(it has been linked here before in a different thread)
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1053531
Go to the section titled "Shoulder Saver #2: Serratus Anterior Activation Work". I believe it is similar to why the recommend push-ups.
Check out this article....(it has been linked here before in a different thread)
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1053531
Go to the section titled "Shoulder Saver #2: Serratus Anterior Activation Work". I believe it is similar to why the recommend push-ups.
Scapular pushups yes, but I just can't see regular pushups as being different from bench. I saw where he talked about bench myths, proper form and such. Most of us know not to do elbows flared now and a pushup can go either way too.
What makes the most sense to me is rows, and the overhead shrugs and scap pushups where you're just moving the joints; not the arms.
I also liked that he said they wouldn't interfere with your regular training if you do them on off days. That is VERY cool.
What makes the most sense to me is rows, and the overhead shrugs and scap pushups where you're just moving the joints; not the arms.
I also liked that he said they wouldn't interfere with your regular training if you do them on off days. That is VERY cool.
<div>
(quadancer @ May 28 2007,08:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Scapular pushups yes, but I just can't see regular pushups as being different from bench. I saw where he talked about bench myths, proper form and such. Most of us know not to do elbows flared now and a pushup can go either way too.
What makes the most sense to me is rows, and the overhead shrugs and scap pushups where you're just moving the joints; not the arms.
I also liked that he said they wouldn't interfere with your regular training if you do them on off days. That is VERY cool.</div>
in bench the scapula should be fixed in position
in pushups the scapula should not be fixed in position
works the muscles surrounding the scapula differently
(quadancer @ May 28 2007,08:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Scapular pushups yes, but I just can't see regular pushups as being different from bench. I saw where he talked about bench myths, proper form and such. Most of us know not to do elbows flared now and a pushup can go either way too.
What makes the most sense to me is rows, and the overhead shrugs and scap pushups where you're just moving the joints; not the arms.
I also liked that he said they wouldn't interfere with your regular training if you do them on off days. That is VERY cool.</div>
in bench the scapula should be fixed in position
in pushups the scapula should not be fixed in position
works the muscles surrounding the scapula differently
stevejones
Member
<div>
(Bulldog @ May 27 2007,10:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quad, I think their point about the push-ups was that they will help work the muscles that pull the scapula forward. Where in a bench you would typically keep them retracted and pulled tight together. I think the idea is that they will even out the musculature that moves and stabilizes the scapula. Which actually might be part of my problem.
Check out this article....(it has been linked here before in a different thread)
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1053531
Go to the section titled "Shoulder Saver #2: Serratus Anterior Activation Work". I believe it is similar to why the recommend push-ups.</div>
Are you still having problems with your shoulders for military press ? I'm back to having shoulder problems again. I think it's because I can't use leg drive during bench or military so even more stress is placed on the shoulders.
I'm doing everything "right" as far as my rc work. I do it religiously and never miss a day...still, shoulder problems again. Guess I will try the pushups and scap pushups.
(Bulldog @ May 27 2007,10:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quad, I think their point about the push-ups was that they will help work the muscles that pull the scapula forward. Where in a bench you would typically keep them retracted and pulled tight together. I think the idea is that they will even out the musculature that moves and stabilizes the scapula. Which actually might be part of my problem.
Check out this article....(it has been linked here before in a different thread)
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1053531
Go to the section titled "Shoulder Saver #2: Serratus Anterior Activation Work". I believe it is similar to why the recommend push-ups.</div>
Are you still having problems with your shoulders for military press ? I'm back to having shoulder problems again. I think it's because I can't use leg drive during bench or military so even more stress is placed on the shoulders.
I'm doing everything "right" as far as my rc work. I do it religiously and never miss a day...still, shoulder problems again. Guess I will try the pushups and scap pushups.
Bulldog
Active Member
<div>
(stevejones @ Jun. 02 2007,00:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Bulldog @ May 27 2007,10:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quad, I think their point about the push-ups was that they will help work the muscles that pull the scapula forward. Where in a bench you would typically keep them retracted and pulled tight together. I think the idea is that they will even out the musculature that moves and stabilizes the scapula. Which actually might be part of my problem.
Check out this article....(it has been linked here before in a different thread)
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1053531
Go to the section titled "Shoulder Saver #2: Serratus Anterior Activation Work". I believe it is similar to why the recommend push-ups.</div>
Are you still having problems with your shoulders for military press ? I'm back to having shoulder problems again. I think it's because I can't use leg drive during bench or military so even more stress is placed on the shoulders.
I'm doing everything "right" as far as my rc work. I do it religiously and never miss a day...still, shoulder problems again. Guess I will try the pushups and scap pushups.</div>
Yeah I still have problems with my left shoulder on any pressing movements.
I have never given any history here on my shoulder problems so I'll explain my injury a little bit here. My shoulder has been screwed up for over 20 years. Of all the things to be doing and injure your shoulder I originally injured it playing golf. To much back swing overstretched something pretty bad when I was 16 years old. I never got it looked at but it seemed to heal fine. On top of that I have a bad imbalance in my left deltoid muscle because of all the golf I played and not doing much else when I was young. So my front delt on my left shoulder is huge compared to the side and rear delt (from back swing). Which causes all sorts of problems when overhead pressing.
About 10 years later I was moving and was carrying a large chest and felt a pop in my left shoulder. So I thought for sure I tore my RC. I had an MRI and arthrogram (where they inject the dye into your joint and take x-rays and ct-scan) done and they said there was no tear in my RC. So I did lots of rehab. That seemed to help but I still had some problems.
Ever since I had those problems years ago I have had this problem......If I hang completely relaxed from a pull-up bar it feels like my left scapula is going to come completely detached from my back! I have no idea what the problem is there but it has been like that for years. I'm assuming that is the muscle I tore and they didn't notice that because they weren't looking for it. I'm also assuming since it has been 20+ years that if something was torn then there is nothing they can do about it now. I don't have any problem doing pull-ups or rows though from this....at least none that I'm aware of.
All that being said I I do have weak external rotators in my left shoulder and a bad imbalance in my left deltoid. I think a lot of my problem is the deltoid imbalance. I probably shouldn't be doing any pressing movements and work specifically on my back and pulling movements and rear and side delts to try and balance my shoulder out. But it's kind of hard not to do any pressing at all. It just doesn't seem right.
(stevejones @ Jun. 02 2007,00:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Bulldog @ May 27 2007,10:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quad, I think their point about the push-ups was that they will help work the muscles that pull the scapula forward. Where in a bench you would typically keep them retracted and pulled tight together. I think the idea is that they will even out the musculature that moves and stabilizes the scapula. Which actually might be part of my problem.
Check out this article....(it has been linked here before in a different thread)
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1053531
Go to the section titled "Shoulder Saver #2: Serratus Anterior Activation Work". I believe it is similar to why the recommend push-ups.</div>
Are you still having problems with your shoulders for military press ? I'm back to having shoulder problems again. I think it's because I can't use leg drive during bench or military so even more stress is placed on the shoulders.
I'm doing everything "right" as far as my rc work. I do it religiously and never miss a day...still, shoulder problems again. Guess I will try the pushups and scap pushups.</div>
Yeah I still have problems with my left shoulder on any pressing movements.
I have never given any history here on my shoulder problems so I'll explain my injury a little bit here. My shoulder has been screwed up for over 20 years. Of all the things to be doing and injure your shoulder I originally injured it playing golf. To much back swing overstretched something pretty bad when I was 16 years old. I never got it looked at but it seemed to heal fine. On top of that I have a bad imbalance in my left deltoid muscle because of all the golf I played and not doing much else when I was young. So my front delt on my left shoulder is huge compared to the side and rear delt (from back swing). Which causes all sorts of problems when overhead pressing.
About 10 years later I was moving and was carrying a large chest and felt a pop in my left shoulder. So I thought for sure I tore my RC. I had an MRI and arthrogram (where they inject the dye into your joint and take x-rays and ct-scan) done and they said there was no tear in my RC. So I did lots of rehab. That seemed to help but I still had some problems.
Ever since I had those problems years ago I have had this problem......If I hang completely relaxed from a pull-up bar it feels like my left scapula is going to come completely detached from my back! I have no idea what the problem is there but it has been like that for years. I'm assuming that is the muscle I tore and they didn't notice that because they weren't looking for it. I'm also assuming since it has been 20+ years that if something was torn then there is nothing they can do about it now. I don't have any problem doing pull-ups or rows though from this....at least none that I'm aware of.
All that being said I I do have weak external rotators in my left shoulder and a bad imbalance in my left deltoid. I think a lot of my problem is the deltoid imbalance. I probably shouldn't be doing any pressing movements and work specifically on my back and pulling movements and rear and side delts to try and balance my shoulder out. But it's kind of hard not to do any pressing at all. It just doesn't seem right.
stevejones
Member
Fluck it...here we go again
I won't do any pressing movements for 8 weeks (except pushups). No bent over rows either. Just pushups, face pulls, rc work, pull ups, seated rows (as best I can), and the beloved deadlift and squat (as soon as I get my cast off). Will do those scap shrugs and scap pushups on off days. Going to focus heavily on grip too..finally closed the #4, yay !
Was disappointed in how many pushups I could do. Only got 60, which is pretty frikken sad considering my raw bench is 440 on a good day. When I was a kid and could only bench about 225 I could do 100 without stopping.
I won't do any pressing movements for 8 weeks (except pushups). No bent over rows either. Just pushups, face pulls, rc work, pull ups, seated rows (as best I can), and the beloved deadlift and squat (as soon as I get my cast off). Will do those scap shrugs and scap pushups on off days. Going to focus heavily on grip too..finally closed the #4, yay !
Was disappointed in how many pushups I could do. Only got 60, which is pretty frikken sad considering my raw bench is 440 on a good day. When I was a kid and could only bench about 225 I could do 100 without stopping.
scientific muscle
New Member
<div>
(quadancer @ Jun. 03 2007,16:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm also back to having problems. Things improved with the "7-minute solution" (that takes longer each time) but with my workouts spaced out, the problems are returning, so I thought something new would be good to try.
Anybody got a magic pill?</div>
Are you doing the exercise daily?
I am finding two exercises to be extremely helpful with my impingement problem, but only if I do them very frequently (every day!).
1) The lying laterals. You lie on your side and do db laterals...works the supraspinitus.
2) The 'shoulder-horn type' or 'L-flies' where your arm is out the side bent at 90 degree angle and you do external rotations with a dumbell...works the infraspinitus.
I did them daily for two months and my problem disappeared. I then got cocky and lazy and started skipping them and then stopped doing them.....
Of course the shoulder-impingement pain came back with a vengeance when I did barbell benching or any kind of laterals.
I am back to doing 3 sets each daily and my shoulder feels great. Barely any impingement today barbell benching.
(quadancer @ Jun. 03 2007,16:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm also back to having problems. Things improved with the "7-minute solution" (that takes longer each time) but with my workouts spaced out, the problems are returning, so I thought something new would be good to try.
Anybody got a magic pill?</div>
Are you doing the exercise daily?
I am finding two exercises to be extremely helpful with my impingement problem, but only if I do them very frequently (every day!).
1) The lying laterals. You lie on your side and do db laterals...works the supraspinitus.
2) The 'shoulder-horn type' or 'L-flies' where your arm is out the side bent at 90 degree angle and you do external rotations with a dumbell...works the infraspinitus.
I did them daily for two months and my problem disappeared. I then got cocky and lazy and started skipping them and then stopped doing them.....
Of course the shoulder-impingement pain came back with a vengeance when I did barbell benching or any kind of laterals.
I am back to doing 3 sets each daily and my shoulder feels great. Barely any impingement today barbell benching.
No, I just do them after workouts; but haven't had energy to work out much. (I'm working on that too) I wouldn't have time to do them every day, nor the patience. The whole point of the article you must not have read was that their exersizes were supposedly superior to the lateral rotations.