Should Prohormones be illegal

Discussion in 'Anything and Everything about dietary supplements' started by Bryan Haycock, Oct 28, 2003.

  1. Twin Peak

    Twin Peak New Member

    Not really. The various sports can simply ban the product, should it desire. This is a wholly improper basis for making something illegal.
     
  2. Jon Stark

    Jon Stark New Member

    Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly on both counts. I was stretching to include something on the positive side of the ledger. I doubt it would have any effect at all. And like I said, I really don't care if every athlete on the planet started using steroids tomorrow.
     
  3. Baoh

    Baoh New Member

    M1T is a steroid, not a prohormone. It is legal (more accurately: not illicit) only because it has a niche market at present and is flying under the radar.

    4-AD cypionate is a steroid, which is also a precursor to testosterone, and may have intrinsic anabolic properties. It does NOT come close to test, though. It may not be legal for much longer, now.

    All prohormones are steroids. Usually, they are just less effective.
     
  4. Mindwraith

    Mindwraith New Member

    Government is never the best person to do "whats best" for anybody. People always assume if something is government approved that its set in stone as being unquestionable. Somehow the misconception has come along that government is infallable. Prohibition of any material (drugs, guns, supplements) does not solve whatever problem is associated with that which is prohibited. It only then serves to fund criminals selling on the black market, which only makes things worse. Government is very inefficiant and sloppy with everything they do.

    Think of it like this, given would you rather use a private restroom (friends house or restaraunt) or a public one (one taken care of and owned by government).

    Think of how much of a pain going to the DPS / DMV is, and imagine now that the same government wants to provide your healthcare.

    People gripe and complain about government being sloppy, inefficiant, unreliable, slow, and ineffective. Then they turn around and ask government to take over more tasks. You want a nanny state, govt has no problem taking more power. Government is a necessary evil, lets give it as little power as possible, only enough to do what can't be taken care of by private citizens.

    I vote we keep government away from our supplements. Let the free market and consumer advocates determine what is and what isn't snake oil.
     
  5. Coyote

    Coyote New Member

    Freedom = Responsibility
    Responsibility = Freedom
    Its about informed choice, its about being an adult, its about not endorsing weakness.
    Many of those that cannot or will not control themselves, that adore being manipulated by external forces so to pretend a powerless victim, seem to relish invoking these coercive forces against those that shall take responsibility, in a veiled attack of contemptuous spite.
    Just because you suckle the teats of the uberstate, nestled in the bosom of the hyperparental omnipotent government, doesn't mean you have the right to impose this odious coercive force upon others, imposing slavery upon others does not make your prison more comforting.
    Land of the free my arse, give them a King I cryed, for we know not how to govern our very lives!


    ... or something
     
  6. Ruhl

    Ruhl New Member

    Steroids and now prohormones are illegal because they are unproductive towards the government's power base. Bodybuilders eat too much, take expensive supplements, and some base their entire life around training and competition. They do nothing productive. The government does not care about you, but about itself. It was easy enough for them to get prohormones banned as only a minority of the current population wants to keep them legal. If the government's populatrity was at stake, they would not have banned prohormones.

    Someday they will probably microchip the population. The people will not reject it, as doing so will make life more pleasant for the people.
     
  7. Mindwraith

    Mindwraith New Member

    Well, considering the minority of the population are weightlifters or athletic, the rest being fat lazy. The majority therefore doesn't understand what prohormones are. And as Dilbert's boss says "After reading your report I'm moving up the deadline on your project based on the assumption that anything I dont understand must be easy."
     
  8. xahrx

    xahrx New Member

    I'm wondering with the talk here about prohormones, did anyone ever try to make a 17-ak version of 1-testosterone? If 1-T is as effective as people claim, and I've taken 1-AD and seen results from it so I do think it could possibly be, why hasn't the black market moved in and supplied this yet? It would seem to be an almost ideal steroid.
     
  9. restless

    restless New Member

    It's called methyl-one-test and a lot of US supplement shops carry it. It's apparently very effective in doses of 20 mg per day.

    I don't thinnk any 17-AA steroid could ever be the ideial steroid though. I personaly stay away from them.
     
  10. NO, they should not be put into the same classification. But unfortunately they probably will just for the simple fact there aren't enough of the voting population who have any idea what they are. Therefore the "Lawmakers" AKA "your representatives" have no constituency to voice any opposing opinion.

    It's the same old story, the same old song and dance.

    UNKNOWN+MISTRUTH=FEAR
     
  11. xahrx

    xahrx New Member

    4-AD is not a steroid, neither are all prohormones as you said later in your posts. They are what they are called, prohormones, determined by the fact that they require a conversion in the body into the target steroid. They are similar but definitely different substances. There's a difference between how your body deals with an active hormone like 1-testosterone and a prohormone like 1-AD.
     
  12. xahrx

    xahrx New Member

    The black market hasn't moved in because it's already available legally, at least for a little while. It's called M1T. It's not an ideal steroid, it's harsh as hell. It can be used safely I believe, but it is a very dangerous substance. Over at another board I'm a part of there's a guy who posts lab results after using certain substances. M1T has a massive effect on your liver and a host of other side effects such as: mild to extreme lethargy; mild to extreme back cramps; bloody noses; hypoglycemia; an unbelievable reduction of good cholesterol (HDL) and a big jump in bad cholesterol (LDL).

    If your only experience is with 1-AD and you want to move on, try a 1-testosterone transdermal before you go to M1T. Based on what I've seen of M1T it belongs in the same class as anadrol regarding its effects on the body. Great gains, high risk.
     
  13. Baoh

    Baoh New Member

    Do yourself a favor and take chemistry courses.

    Nothing you said invalidates that "prohormones" and "target" androgens are both STEROIDS.
     
  14. xahrx

    xahrx New Member

    So long as you do yourself one and get an attitude adjustment. If you inject an active hormone your body will deal with it differently than a prohormone. For one, a prohormone usually won't have inherent anabolic properties, 4-AD may be an exception, but steroids do. Prohormones are also thought to have an enzyme limitation, however small it might be, steroids do not. This was one of the key arguments put forward by lobbyists against the current ban to try and get prohormones out of the bill, because they would technically have less abuse potential.
     
  15. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    Let's please be respectful to one another so that tempers don't get flared.

    Just to clarify, "prohormones" are steroids.
     
  16. xahrx

    xahrx New Member

    Then let me clarify. Lots of hormones are considered steroids in general. I'm talking about AAS, specific derrivatives of testosterone that have muscle building and masculinizing effects. Technically pregnenolone is a steroid, and even though it's considered the precursor to dang near everything no one's gonna be injecting it any time soon. Technically estrogen is a steroid, no one's shooting it up or downing tablets to promote its production unless you count women with a deficiency.

    Both estrogen and pregnenolone have the carbon formation that defines them as steroids, neither one is considered an AAS as far as I know, and neither are what are commonly called prohormones. Androstenedione serves as an precursor within the body to testosterone, I believe pregnenolone gets processed to DHEA and from this to andro to test by some function, though it's been a while since I took those chemistry classes that were recently reccomended to me.

    Point being a precursor to an AAS is not the same thing as AAS. There are a number of factors that make such precursors different, two of which are that they have little to no anabolic or androgenous effect themselves, and there is a limit to how much the body will be able to convert to the target hormone. You can ingest tons of 19-Nordiol but it has a bad conversion ratio to nandrolone no matter how it's delivered. Not the same with pure nandrolone, which by its very nature enter the body's cells and acts within them.

    There's a difference between active hormones and their precursors both it what they're capable of in and of themselves and their natural/artificial purposes, despite the fact they may all technically be steroids. There's more of a difference when you further separate steroids out by their anabolic/androgenous properties. Enough of a difference I'd say to deal with them on separate terms.
     
  17. Baoh

    Baoh New Member

    *sigh*

    Consider this.

    Oxymetholone. Powerful steroid, yes?

    It's a precursor to Methyl-Dihydrotestosterone, which is what is believed in some circles to give it most of its effects, thereby making it a so-called "prohormone".

    "Prohormone", "precursor", and like terms, when used by the suppliment market, are not scientifically oriented. It is simply a cloak meant to extend legality.

    If you think that all "prohormones" have no intrinsic effect, you are mistaken.

    Again, the legality and the science involved are not one and the same.
     
  18. xahrx

    xahrx New Member

    I'd agree with that. However the legality is what the subject is about.

    Oxymetholone is also derrived from dihydrotestosterone, which technically means it shouldn't aromatize, but you bloat like crazy on the stuff. I believe it was studied next to nandrolone as well and it was found to have no significant progestin activity either. What some circles think is pretty subjective.

    Point being if it is found to be technically a prohormone, and in and of itself useless unless converted, so be it. I still think it's a useful distinction overall. When you say it's powerful I assume you're also referring to its harsh effects on the liver. This is the result of the methylation of the substance. Do the same thing to 4 AD and 1 testonsterone and they have their own problems, M1T especially. I'm not sure if you meant to imply this aspect of anadrol, but I think it's important to draw the distinction for some who may not know. The methylated hormone is almost always an entirely different beast than the unmethylated version.

    I still say it's a valid distinction between the two, especially with AAS specifically seperated out. An active steroid hormone enters the cells and does its work. A precursor doesn't, and your body may have some defense mechanisms so it doesn't convert too much of the stuff if it's dealing with a precursor, whereas if you directly inject 1000mgs of Deca it will have a direct effect in proportion to the amount.
     
  19. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Now we're in the age of the banned, and there was a plethora of supposable PH's and "near" steroid substances flooding the market in the vacuum left behind, and most or all of these substances weren't worth anything...has anything come out yet that actually works and is not presently banned?
    Several I've checked up on have shown only anecdotal support, but just as much against them. Seems like if it works, it's illegal.
    A fella might as well buy test.
     
  20. effero

    effero New Member

    Methylated stenbolone is legal and it works well.
     

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