Slapshotz' SST journal
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TunnelRat
Active Member
<div>
(Slapshotz @ Jun. 25 2008,9:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">On the negative side, I'm having serious reservations about playing football this fall. My achilles hurts and/or is stiff every day....and I mean every day. Not a day goes by that I don't know it s there.
All the literature I've read states that a constantly stiff/sore achilles is prime for rupture. I just don't see how football will be possible without extensive rehab, and I just don't have the time to do it...and even if I did rehab it, rupture is a very real possibility because it's happened to me before in my other leg. A lifetime of orthodic shoe inserts has caused both my achilles tendons to shrink, and the shrinkage is, unfortunately, permanent.</div>
Think: Dan Marino...!
(Slapshotz @ Jun. 25 2008,9:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">On the negative side, I'm having serious reservations about playing football this fall. My achilles hurts and/or is stiff every day....and I mean every day. Not a day goes by that I don't know it s there.
All the literature I've read states that a constantly stiff/sore achilles is prime for rupture. I just don't see how football will be possible without extensive rehab, and I just don't have the time to do it...and even if I did rehab it, rupture is a very real possibility because it's happened to me before in my other leg. A lifetime of orthodic shoe inserts has caused both my achilles tendons to shrink, and the shrinkage is, unfortunately, permanent.</div>
Think: Dan Marino...!
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">On the negative side, I'm having serious reservations about playing football this fall. My achilles hurts and/or is stiff every day....and I mean every day. Not a day goes by that I don't know it s there.
All the literature I've read states that a constantly stiff/sore achilles is prime for rupture. I just don't see how football will be possible without extensive rehab, and I just don't have the time to do it...and even if I did rehab it, rupture is a very real possibility because it's happened to me before in my other leg. A lifetime of orthodic shoe inserts has caused both my achilles tendons to shrink, and the shrinkage is, unfortunately, permanent.</div>
I totally missed that...
All the literature I've read states that a constantly stiff/sore achilles is prime for rupture. I just don't see how football will be possible without extensive rehab, and I just don't have the time to do it...and even if I did rehab it, rupture is a very real possibility because it's happened to me before in my other leg. A lifetime of orthodic shoe inserts has caused both my achilles tendons to shrink, and the shrinkage is, unfortunately, permanent.</div>
I totally missed that...
Hey, guys.
FF, I use a saline spray every day, though it's not quite as powerful
Alas, my problems are mostly due to increased congestion as a result of my LPR and allergies in general. Maybe I'll give the nasal irrigation a shot if things don't improve with increased shots to 1x every two weeks.
Quad, it's not that my achilles can't be stretched (I tried the stretch you emailed me on), it's the fact that because my heels have been artificially raised in my shoes for the last 25 years, that the tendons have physically shrunk. Unfortunately, there's just no cure for that. It's the reason my right achilles busted in 2000, and playing football will increase....greatly...the risk of rupture for the left one. My only option, really, is to abstain from the activity
Hey, at least I can still squat & deadlift without worry.
Colby & TR, looks like the football is gonna be nixed, sorry to say. I just can't risk that type of injury. I'm totally bummed about that, but in the overall scheme of life, it's not such a big deal, I guess. I meet with my trainer in 2 weeks, and I'm sure he'll help me come up with a new goal.
Anyhoo, on the positive side, workout was really good yesterday. Here's the highlights...
Flat bench - 235 x 3
Weighted dips - BW + 90 x 5 x 3
Bench is still lower than I'm used to, but 235 went up pretty smooth for the first two. Maybe I'll be on an upswing with it soon. My major focus lately continues to be squats & deads. The dips were a nice surprise. I haven't done them in awhile.
FF, I use a saline spray every day, though it's not quite as powerful
Alas, my problems are mostly due to increased congestion as a result of my LPR and allergies in general. Maybe I'll give the nasal irrigation a shot if things don't improve with increased shots to 1x every two weeks.
Quad, it's not that my achilles can't be stretched (I tried the stretch you emailed me on), it's the fact that because my heels have been artificially raised in my shoes for the last 25 years, that the tendons have physically shrunk. Unfortunately, there's just no cure for that. It's the reason my right achilles busted in 2000, and playing football will increase....greatly...the risk of rupture for the left one. My only option, really, is to abstain from the activity
Colby & TR, looks like the football is gonna be nixed, sorry to say. I just can't risk that type of injury. I'm totally bummed about that, but in the overall scheme of life, it's not such a big deal, I guess. I meet with my trainer in 2 weeks, and I'm sure he'll help me come up with a new goal.
Anyhoo, on the positive side, workout was really good yesterday. Here's the highlights...
Flat bench - 235 x 3
Weighted dips - BW + 90 x 5 x 3
Bench is still lower than I'm used to, but 235 went up pretty smooth for the first two. Maybe I'll be on an upswing with it soon. My major focus lately continues to be squats & deads. The dips were a nice surprise. I haven't done them in awhile.
Slapz, what was the reason that your heels had to be raised artificially?
I would have thought that any decrease in tendon length could be redressed by muscle stretching over time. A lot of flexibility issues are down to muscle belly lengthening whereas tendon and ligament stretching is often undesirable as it effects joint stability.
I would also have thought that focussing on some loaded calf stretching would help to toughen up your achilles tendons but you'd have to take it nice and steadily as tendons take a long time to adapt and thicken compared to muscle. Of course, as we get older, tendons tend to lose their springiness, becoming more brittle, so we have to be prepared for more tendon problems if we engage in strenuous activities where sudden high levels of force are involved.
Great dipping, by the way!
I would have thought that any decrease in tendon length could be redressed by muscle stretching over time. A lot of flexibility issues are down to muscle belly lengthening whereas tendon and ligament stretching is often undesirable as it effects joint stability.
I would also have thought that focussing on some loaded calf stretching would help to toughen up your achilles tendons but you'd have to take it nice and steadily as tendons take a long time to adapt and thicken compared to muscle. Of course, as we get older, tendons tend to lose their springiness, becoming more brittle, so we have to be prepared for more tendon problems if we engage in strenuous activities where sudden high levels of force are involved.
Great dipping, by the way!
<div>
(Lol @ Jul. 01 2008,7:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Slapz, what was the reason that your heels had to be raised artificially?
I would have thought that any decrease in tendon length could be redressed by muscle stretching over time. A lot of flexibility issues are down to muscle belly lengthening whereas tendon and ligament stretching is often undesirable as it effects joint stability.
I would also have thought that focussing on some loaded calf stretching would help to toughen up your achilles tendons but you'd have to take it nice and steadily as tendons take a long time to adapt and thicken compared to muscle. Of course, as we get older, tendons tend to lose their springiness, becoming more brittle, so we have to be prepared for more tendon problems if we engage in strenuous activities where sudden high levels of force are involved.
Great dipping, by the way!</div>
Hey, Lol.
The procession of events that led to my shrunken achilles started 25 years ago...
I was 13 and in chronic and debilitating foot pain. A quick visit to the podiatrist revealed I had severe fallen arches (flat feet) and orthodics were prescribed. Basically, the orthodics rested under my feet in the shoe, and artifically created an arch by raising my heel up.
Fast forward to 2000, I enjoyed 17 or so years of painless feet. Then, one day, my right achilles snapped while playing tennis. My ortho surgeon told me that when he did the operation, my achilles was a good 1 inch shorter than it should have been for my height, and the years of wearing orthodics were the cause.
I don't regret using the orthodics...heck, I still need them...flat feet never go away. But the shrunken achilles are here to stay, and no amount of stretching can re-grow what is essentially tissue loss.
This is why football is such a great risk for me, and why it's probably not a risk worth taking.
Hope that clears everything up a bit.
__
Workout highlights from the past 2 sessions:
O/U grip deads, strapless - 405 x 2
Shrugs - 405 x 10
NOTES:
Well, on another note, it looks like sinus surgery is in my future. Turns out it's more than simple allergy or food reactions causing my constant lethargic feeling. I got scoped by an ENT today, and there are tissue obstructions in my nasal cavaties that need to be cleared up, or this problem ain't going away anytime soon. He said both of my sinuses were loaded with pus. YUCK!!! The next 14 days will be brought to you courtesy of Levaquin
The new brand of sinus surgery is branded as "minimally invasive" (versus an allout scraping, which is the norm) and back to work in a few days, but still, I have a good three weeks to ponder it and Google some reaserch before deciding on a final direction.
All I know is, before March, I was feelin' fine. Dunno what changed, or why my sinus situation developed so fast. This is all happening during a time here in the northeastern US where allergy triggers are at a bare minimum, so I'm really buffaloed.
(Lol @ Jul. 01 2008,7:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Slapz, what was the reason that your heels had to be raised artificially?
I would have thought that any decrease in tendon length could be redressed by muscle stretching over time. A lot of flexibility issues are down to muscle belly lengthening whereas tendon and ligament stretching is often undesirable as it effects joint stability.
I would also have thought that focussing on some loaded calf stretching would help to toughen up your achilles tendons but you'd have to take it nice and steadily as tendons take a long time to adapt and thicken compared to muscle. Of course, as we get older, tendons tend to lose their springiness, becoming more brittle, so we have to be prepared for more tendon problems if we engage in strenuous activities where sudden high levels of force are involved.
Great dipping, by the way!</div>
Hey, Lol.
The procession of events that led to my shrunken achilles started 25 years ago...
I was 13 and in chronic and debilitating foot pain. A quick visit to the podiatrist revealed I had severe fallen arches (flat feet) and orthodics were prescribed. Basically, the orthodics rested under my feet in the shoe, and artifically created an arch by raising my heel up.
Fast forward to 2000, I enjoyed 17 or so years of painless feet. Then, one day, my right achilles snapped while playing tennis. My ortho surgeon told me that when he did the operation, my achilles was a good 1 inch shorter than it should have been for my height, and the years of wearing orthodics were the cause.
I don't regret using the orthodics...heck, I still need them...flat feet never go away. But the shrunken achilles are here to stay, and no amount of stretching can re-grow what is essentially tissue loss.
This is why football is such a great risk for me, and why it's probably not a risk worth taking.
Hope that clears everything up a bit.
__
Workout highlights from the past 2 sessions:
O/U grip deads, strapless - 405 x 2
Shrugs - 405 x 10
NOTES:
Well, on another note, it looks like sinus surgery is in my future. Turns out it's more than simple allergy or food reactions causing my constant lethargic feeling. I got scoped by an ENT today, and there are tissue obstructions in my nasal cavaties that need to be cleared up, or this problem ain't going away anytime soon. He said both of my sinuses were loaded with pus. YUCK!!! The next 14 days will be brought to you courtesy of Levaquin
The new brand of sinus surgery is branded as "minimally invasive" (versus an allout scraping, which is the norm) and back to work in a few days, but still, I have a good three weeks to ponder it and Google some reaserch before deciding on a final direction.
All I know is, before March, I was feelin' fine. Dunno what changed, or why my sinus situation developed so fast. This is all happening during a time here in the northeastern US where allergy triggers are at a bare minimum, so I'm really buffaloed.
<div>
(quadancer @ Jul. 07 2008,9:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Mold in the house?
What about the shoes? If you're wearing lifts, can you not do the lesser violent sports (of course not football) and such? I know they make special sneakers for feets.</div>
I doubt it, Q, on the mold thing. We just moved here a year ago, and the inspector would've cought it, I think.
As far as the sports thing, my other option is hockey. Dunno about it being less violent
but it certainly would be less violent on my achilles. hard to rupture an achilles that's being kept in place by a skate boot!
I guess priority one is wading through this awful period of health I've been having....I mean, I guess I shouldn't complain, lots of folks have it lots worse, but I'm kinda used to feeling pretty good most of the time, so this is a tough adjustment. Bodybuilding aches & pains I can deal with...but being physicaly ill for an extended period is cutting my patience & morale pretty thin.
I guess I just have to keep on keepin' on.
(quadancer @ Jul. 07 2008,9:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Mold in the house?
What about the shoes? If you're wearing lifts, can you not do the lesser violent sports (of course not football) and such? I know they make special sneakers for feets.</div>
I doubt it, Q, on the mold thing. We just moved here a year ago, and the inspector would've cought it, I think.
As far as the sports thing, my other option is hockey. Dunno about it being less violent
I guess priority one is wading through this awful period of health I've been having....I mean, I guess I shouldn't complain, lots of folks have it lots worse, but I'm kinda used to feeling pretty good most of the time, so this is a tough adjustment. Bodybuilding aches & pains I can deal with...but being physicaly ill for an extended period is cutting my patience & morale pretty thin.
I guess I just have to keep on keepin' on.
TunnelRat
Active Member
<div>
(Slapshotz @ Jul. 08 2008,5:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As far as the sports thing, my other option is hockey. Dunno about it being less violent
but it certainly would be less violent on my achilles.</div>
One time there was a riot going on in downtown Detroit, and a hockey game broke out...
(Slapshotz @ Jul. 08 2008,5:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As far as the sports thing, my other option is hockey. Dunno about it being less violent
One time there was a riot going on in downtown Detroit, and a hockey game broke out...
Hockey would be a good choice, but consider that hockey and speed skates have flat soles with no heels to them. Figure and dance have the tall heels because when you dance, where are you half the time? On your toes.
I used to make tennis shoe skates when I started and switched to dance boots later. When I got back on my old ones, I almost fell over backwards! The heel makes a HUGE difference, so I put some stiff foam heel pads I made from machinery mounts in the tennie skates and it worked pretty well, even if it was only 1/2" lift compared to the 1-1/8" of the boots. You could do that to hockey skates to protect the achilles.
I used to make tennis shoe skates when I started and switched to dance boots later. When I got back on my old ones, I almost fell over backwards! The heel makes a HUGE difference, so I put some stiff foam heel pads I made from machinery mounts in the tennie skates and it worked pretty well, even if it was only 1/2" lift compared to the 1-1/8" of the boots. You could do that to hockey skates to protect the achilles.
All I can say is.....WOW!!!!
Those following my journal know of my health ails over the last several months, which is what makes today's BF analysis the most unreal thing I've experienced in my whole lifting career.
I wasn't going to even go, but I had the appointment, it was already paid for, so I said WTF. At first, my trainer said I was looking bigger, but I assumed it was just lip service...then I got the analysis
Look at this comparison from my last analysis on March 8.
March 8 July 12
BW.........162.2......................168.8
BF...........8.6%.......................8.2%
LBM gain - 6.7 pounds!!!
Fat loss - .4 pounds
That, my friends, is the single biggest LBM gain I've had since I was a noob, bar none. I'm not talking about the infamous fat/muscle combo...just lean beef gain...and I wasn't even trying to do it.
So, that begs the question, how in the hell did this happen? I can point to several areas in retrospect that are the most likely reasons, and why my training has maybe been altered permanently because of what has transpired over these last 4 months.
1. Infrequent workouts.
The high frequency vs. low frequency debate is settled, at least in my mind. Illness forced me to train sometimes only twice per week, oftentimes once, but the sessions were all out and obviously productive.
2. Static cardio, OUT, sprinting, IN
Yes, I still did do static cardio, but it was of the 85% THR variety, and I did an equal split of running and wind sprints.
3. Compounds only (or mostly
)
I've been doing squats / deads pretty much every other workout for the last several months, mainly because since my workouts were so infrequent, I wanted the most bang for my buck when I could actually make it to the gym. Again, it may not seem like a big deal, but like most everyone else, I used to split things up, 50% core with 50% auxilliary.
Good things have happened since I'm squatting or deadlifting every other workout, and more importantly, I'm rested when I do them, so the movements are productive!
Summary: I won't say I'm as fanatic about HIT as Mentzer, but I can't argue and/or overlook these results. Frequent training has never given me these kinds of results.
My variation on HIT is this: when you feel a muscle has fully recovered, hit it again, and no sooner. Depending on life circumstances, it may be 3 days or 11 days in between sessions, but I think it's a crucial factor in determining the results we see.
Looking forward to the comments / observations. It sure felt good to see something positive after all this negative stuff lately
Those following my journal know of my health ails over the last several months, which is what makes today's BF analysis the most unreal thing I've experienced in my whole lifting career.
I wasn't going to even go, but I had the appointment, it was already paid for, so I said WTF. At first, my trainer said I was looking bigger, but I assumed it was just lip service...then I got the analysis
Look at this comparison from my last analysis on March 8.
March 8 July 12
BW.........162.2......................168.8
BF...........8.6%.......................8.2%
LBM gain - 6.7 pounds!!!
Fat loss - .4 pounds
That, my friends, is the single biggest LBM gain I've had since I was a noob, bar none. I'm not talking about the infamous fat/muscle combo...just lean beef gain...and I wasn't even trying to do it.
So, that begs the question, how in the hell did this happen? I can point to several areas in retrospect that are the most likely reasons, and why my training has maybe been altered permanently because of what has transpired over these last 4 months.
1. Infrequent workouts.
The high frequency vs. low frequency debate is settled, at least in my mind. Illness forced me to train sometimes only twice per week, oftentimes once, but the sessions were all out and obviously productive.
2. Static cardio, OUT, sprinting, IN
Yes, I still did do static cardio, but it was of the 85% THR variety, and I did an equal split of running and wind sprints.
3. Compounds only (or mostly
I've been doing squats / deads pretty much every other workout for the last several months, mainly because since my workouts were so infrequent, I wanted the most bang for my buck when I could actually make it to the gym. Again, it may not seem like a big deal, but like most everyone else, I used to split things up, 50% core with 50% auxilliary.
Good things have happened since I'm squatting or deadlifting every other workout, and more importantly, I'm rested when I do them, so the movements are productive!
Summary: I won't say I'm as fanatic about HIT as Mentzer, but I can't argue and/or overlook these results. Frequent training has never given me these kinds of results.
My variation on HIT is this: when you feel a muscle has fully recovered, hit it again, and no sooner. Depending on life circumstances, it may be 3 days or 11 days in between sessions, but I think it's a crucial factor in determining the results we see.
Looking forward to the comments / observations. It sure felt good to see something positive after all this negative stuff lately
I
imported_electric
Guest
slap, congratulations on the results! What about your diet this period? Regular diet, eating at maintenance, above, below, every other day IF, PSMF... we NEED to find out the secret!
Btw, were you following HST specifically? What rep scheme you were using?
Btw, were you following HST specifically? What rep scheme you were using?
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">LBM gain - 6.7 pounds!!!
Fat loss - .4 pounds
That, my friends, is the single biggest LBM gain I've had since I was a noob, bar none. I'm not talking about the infamous fat/muscle combo...just lean beef gain...and I wasn't even trying to do it.</div>
Looks like four months on a slow bulk?
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So, that begs the question, how in the hell did this happen? I can point to several areas in retrospect that are the most likely reasons, and why my training has maybe been altered permanently because of what has transpired over these last 4 months.</div>
I've been following your log and you have had some of the worst training since I've known you here on the forum. Good question...
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">1. Infrequent workouts.
The high frequency vs. low frequency debate is settled, at least in my mind. Illness forced me to train sometimes only twice per week, oftentimes once, but the sessions were all out and obviously productive.</div>
I wouldn't say this means infrequent workouts are better for everyone. I have learned, as well, that training a max 3x/week is best for me. Recovery plays a huge role in muscle building.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">2. Static cardio, OUT, sprinting, IN
Yes, I still did do static cardio, but it was of the 85% THR variety, and I did an equal split of running and wind sprints. </div>
More calories burned in less time.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">3. Compounds only (or mostly
)
I've been doing squats / deads pretty much every other workout for the last several months, mainly because since my workouts were so infrequent, I wanted the most bang for my buck when I could actually make it to the gym. Again, it may not seem like a big deal, but like most everyone else, I used to split things up, 50% core with 50% auxilliary.
Good things have happened since I'm squatting or deadlifting every other workout, and more importantly, I'm rested when I do them, so the movements are productive!
</div>
Simplify and win.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Summary: I won't say I'm as fanatic about HIT as Mentzer, but I can't argue and/or overlook these results. Frequent training has never given me these kinds of results. </div>
You can have a similar program under HST just as well. Train 2-3x/week with a limited exercise program, progressive load and SD.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My variation on HIT is this: when you feel a muscle has fully recovered, hit it again, and no sooner. Depending on life circumstances, it may be 3 days or 11 days in between sessions, but I think it's a crucial factor in determining the results we see.</div>
As long as you are still training...
Fat loss - .4 pounds
That, my friends, is the single biggest LBM gain I've had since I was a noob, bar none. I'm not talking about the infamous fat/muscle combo...just lean beef gain...and I wasn't even trying to do it.</div>
Looks like four months on a slow bulk?
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So, that begs the question, how in the hell did this happen? I can point to several areas in retrospect that are the most likely reasons, and why my training has maybe been altered permanently because of what has transpired over these last 4 months.</div>
I've been following your log and you have had some of the worst training since I've known you here on the forum. Good question...
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">1. Infrequent workouts.
The high frequency vs. low frequency debate is settled, at least in my mind. Illness forced me to train sometimes only twice per week, oftentimes once, but the sessions were all out and obviously productive.</div>
I wouldn't say this means infrequent workouts are better for everyone. I have learned, as well, that training a max 3x/week is best for me. Recovery plays a huge role in muscle building.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">2. Static cardio, OUT, sprinting, IN
Yes, I still did do static cardio, but it was of the 85% THR variety, and I did an equal split of running and wind sprints. </div>
More calories burned in less time.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">3. Compounds only (or mostly
I've been doing squats / deads pretty much every other workout for the last several months, mainly because since my workouts were so infrequent, I wanted the most bang for my buck when I could actually make it to the gym. Again, it may not seem like a big deal, but like most everyone else, I used to split things up, 50% core with 50% auxilliary.
Good things have happened since I'm squatting or deadlifting every other workout, and more importantly, I'm rested when I do them, so the movements are productive!
Simplify and win.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Summary: I won't say I'm as fanatic about HIT as Mentzer, but I can't argue and/or overlook these results. Frequent training has never given me these kinds of results. </div>
You can have a similar program under HST just as well. Train 2-3x/week with a limited exercise program, progressive load and SD.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My variation on HIT is this: when you feel a muscle has fully recovered, hit it again, and no sooner. Depending on life circumstances, it may be 3 days or 11 days in between sessions, but I think it's a crucial factor in determining the results we see.</div>
As long as you are still training...
<div>
(electric @ Jul. 12 2008,7:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">slap, congratulations on the results! What about your diet this period? Regular diet, eating at maintenance, above, below, every other day IF, PSMF... we NEED to find out the secret!
Btw, were you following HST specifically? What rep scheme you were using?</div>
Hey, electric.
Geez, hope I can elaborate further, and this will kinda go to what colby pointed out, as well.
1. Was this HST?
In a nutshell, no...not even close. If I was to parallel what I did to anything out there, it would most likely be a bastardized version of Heavy Duty.
There was no ramping up, no ramping down, no submaximal days/weeks, no chart outlying what days I was "supposed" lift, or even what exercises I should do on any given day.
Simply go in there and lift as heavy as I couldwhilst maintaining perfect form, which was a huge challenge because I've had horrible sinus problems over the last several months. My rep range for my heavy sets varied; as few as 1 or 2 to as many as 5, depending on what I was doing.
2. Diet?
I managed to gain mass while eating low carb....that may be why it was all LBM gain and no fat gain. Once I dropped the training frequency and actually let muscle groups recover b/4 I hit them again, muscle was being developed.
3. Frequency
Everyone is different in their recovery, but I think the key to having success and not spinning your wheels year after year going nowhere is to find your optimal recovery time.
For some, it's 24 hours, for others, it's two weeks, but the main thing is, unless you can go at a particular muscle group with 110% energy and focus, you're better off waiting until you can.
If your "chart" says you need to do legs, but you're just not feeling it, take the day off (or 2 or 3 or however long it takes) and hit the muscle group when it's ready.
I certainly don't advocate this for the noob, but certainly experienced lifters need to be in tune with their bodies.
4. Exercise selection
This goes a bit beyond simplify & win, but it's similar. Squats or deadlifts every other workout. That's what I've done over the last 4 months.
Again, I didn't set out to do things that way, but I had limited pockets where I felt healthy enough to actually get my butt into the gym, and I wanted to make it count with exercise(s) that would be beneficial.
Couple that with lots of sprinting, and it seems to be a good recipe.
-----------------
Summary:
IMHO, the biggest changes in my routine were...WAY more squatting and deadlifting, and WAY fewer workouts....and sprinting. That's really what it boils down to.
Hope this helps
(electric @ Jul. 12 2008,7:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">slap, congratulations on the results! What about your diet this period? Regular diet, eating at maintenance, above, below, every other day IF, PSMF... we NEED to find out the secret!
Btw, were you following HST specifically? What rep scheme you were using?</div>
Hey, electric.
Geez, hope I can elaborate further, and this will kinda go to what colby pointed out, as well.
1. Was this HST?
In a nutshell, no...not even close. If I was to parallel what I did to anything out there, it would most likely be a bastardized version of Heavy Duty.
There was no ramping up, no ramping down, no submaximal days/weeks, no chart outlying what days I was "supposed" lift, or even what exercises I should do on any given day.
Simply go in there and lift as heavy as I couldwhilst maintaining perfect form, which was a huge challenge because I've had horrible sinus problems over the last several months. My rep range for my heavy sets varied; as few as 1 or 2 to as many as 5, depending on what I was doing.
2. Diet?
I managed to gain mass while eating low carb....that may be why it was all LBM gain and no fat gain. Once I dropped the training frequency and actually let muscle groups recover b/4 I hit them again, muscle was being developed.
3. Frequency
Everyone is different in their recovery, but I think the key to having success and not spinning your wheels year after year going nowhere is to find your optimal recovery time.
For some, it's 24 hours, for others, it's two weeks, but the main thing is, unless you can go at a particular muscle group with 110% energy and focus, you're better off waiting until you can.
If your "chart" says you need to do legs, but you're just not feeling it, take the day off (or 2 or 3 or however long it takes) and hit the muscle group when it's ready.
I certainly don't advocate this for the noob, but certainly experienced lifters need to be in tune with their bodies.
4. Exercise selection
This goes a bit beyond simplify & win, but it's similar. Squats or deadlifts every other workout. That's what I've done over the last 4 months.
Again, I didn't set out to do things that way, but I had limited pockets where I felt healthy enough to actually get my butt into the gym, and I wanted to make it count with exercise(s) that would be beneficial.
Couple that with lots of sprinting, and it seems to be a good recipe.
-----------------
Summary:
IMHO, the biggest changes in my routine were...WAY more squatting and deadlifting, and WAY fewer workouts....and sprinting. That's really what it boils down to.
Hope this helps
I
imported_electric
Guest
Slap, thanks for the response, sorry for bugging you so much, I got the part about the routine but I would like more info on the diet part. Can you elaborate? It was a slow bulk, you controlled caloric intake, you maintained caloric intake or did something intermittent, what macro ratio were you using?
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
Slapz, great that you had some good results to be happy about after all the crud that came your way over this last year. Takes some of the sting out of the bad stuff, I hope.
I'm really interested in knowing how your numbers changed over the same period for your main compounds? I find that much more useful as a gauge of progress once you are past initial training gains than body weight changes alone. You have been doing more strength type training than hypertrophy specific but obviously there is only so much strength you can gain without having to increase fibre size and/or density.
Re recovery: what needs to be more clearly defined is what we are talking about by the term 'recovery'? In your case, you seem to be using it to describe the time taken for any fatigue and muscle soreness to either completely dissipate or nearly so. It is also worth bearing in mind that HIT type training (ie. lots of going to failure) will take longer for your CNS to recover from (even if you are conditioned to it) than if you refrain from doing so or do so less frequently. Hitting your CNS hard will necessitate leaving longer intervals between training bouts if you don't want to see your baseline strength levels drop off and for strength to be restored.
As far as muscle tissue itself is concerned, there are studies that show that damage on a cellular level can be repaired by the body even in the face of continued loading. What this means in reality is that it is ok to train a muscle frequently to benefit from the possible "summation" effect (where factors affecting protein synthesis are still active while being elevated again) even if the micro-trauma from the previous bout has not been completely repaired. That may seem dumb but actually keeping the body in a more anabolic state for more of the time (bearing in mind that most of the anabolic effects from a bout of training drop off after about 36-48 hours) wins out in the end. The proviso is that you have to provide your body with the extra nutrition it needs in order to be able to continually repair and restore the protein structures. To some degree, strength is usually down during an HST cycle even while bulking because of the training frequency, but increases in strength can be seen at the end of a cycle if a few days of extra recovery time are taken before new RMs are attempted. The downside to higher frequency is that it can definitely conceal strength gains.
Most hypertrophy programs that are effective these days, like HST, 5x5 (and it's many variants), Texas Method and Ripps SS programming all use a frequency that is pretty high - often 3 x weekly for the major muscle groups - but they can only work if CNS fatigue is managed.
For strength training (which would appear to be more your thing) managing CNS fatigue is still important. Louie Simmons has developed a great system at Westside: my understanding of it is that you still train a muscle group frequently but with just one max-effort day a week (singles up to a new max), one lighter power/speed day and one lighter max-reps-to-failure day. He doesn't recommend training with greater than 90% RM more than once a week because you will see your strength drop off, again because your CNS can't recover in time for the next heavy bout. Once a week and heavy seems to be fine for a conditioned lifter.
And I totally agree that good old deads and squats make a great foundation for any program, be it strength or hypertrophy based.
I notice the button I'm about to click on says "Quick Post"! Well, it wasn't that quick! Sorry for so many words.
I'm really interested in knowing how your numbers changed over the same period for your main compounds? I find that much more useful as a gauge of progress once you are past initial training gains than body weight changes alone. You have been doing more strength type training than hypertrophy specific but obviously there is only so much strength you can gain without having to increase fibre size and/or density.
Re recovery: what needs to be more clearly defined is what we are talking about by the term 'recovery'? In your case, you seem to be using it to describe the time taken for any fatigue and muscle soreness to either completely dissipate or nearly so. It is also worth bearing in mind that HIT type training (ie. lots of going to failure) will take longer for your CNS to recover from (even if you are conditioned to it) than if you refrain from doing so or do so less frequently. Hitting your CNS hard will necessitate leaving longer intervals between training bouts if you don't want to see your baseline strength levels drop off and for strength to be restored.
As far as muscle tissue itself is concerned, there are studies that show that damage on a cellular level can be repaired by the body even in the face of continued loading. What this means in reality is that it is ok to train a muscle frequently to benefit from the possible "summation" effect (where factors affecting protein synthesis are still active while being elevated again) even if the micro-trauma from the previous bout has not been completely repaired. That may seem dumb but actually keeping the body in a more anabolic state for more of the time (bearing in mind that most of the anabolic effects from a bout of training drop off after about 36-48 hours) wins out in the end. The proviso is that you have to provide your body with the extra nutrition it needs in order to be able to continually repair and restore the protein structures. To some degree, strength is usually down during an HST cycle even while bulking because of the training frequency, but increases in strength can be seen at the end of a cycle if a few days of extra recovery time are taken before new RMs are attempted. The downside to higher frequency is that it can definitely conceal strength gains.
Most hypertrophy programs that are effective these days, like HST, 5x5 (and it's many variants), Texas Method and Ripps SS programming all use a frequency that is pretty high - often 3 x weekly for the major muscle groups - but they can only work if CNS fatigue is managed.
For strength training (which would appear to be more your thing) managing CNS fatigue is still important. Louie Simmons has developed a great system at Westside: my understanding of it is that you still train a muscle group frequently but with just one max-effort day a week (singles up to a new max), one lighter power/speed day and one lighter max-reps-to-failure day. He doesn't recommend training with greater than 90% RM more than once a week because you will see your strength drop off, again because your CNS can't recover in time for the next heavy bout. Once a week and heavy seems to be fine for a conditioned lifter.
And I totally agree that good old deads and squats make a great foundation for any program, be it strength or hypertrophy based.
I notice the button I'm about to click on says "Quick Post"! Well, it wasn't that quick! Sorry for so many words.
Hey, LOL. Sorry for the belated reply, I was on vacation last week visiting nana and poppop!
LOL wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm really interested in knowing how your numbers changed over the same period for your main compounds?</div>
Numbers really didn't change much...certainly, no new PRs were set.
LOL wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It is also worth bearing in mind that HIT type training (ie. lots of going to failure) will take longer for your CNS to recover</div>
Very true! However, this is why I called what I'm doing a bastardized version of heavy duty. I didn't and don't go to failure...ever. Weird, eh?
LOL wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As far as muscle tissue itself is concerned, there are studies that show that damage on a cellular level can be repaired by the body even in the face of continued loading. What this means in reality is that it is ok to train a muscle frequently to benefit from the possible "summation" effect (where factors affecting protein synthesis are still active while being elevated again) even if the micro-trauma from the previous bout has not been completely repaired. That may seem dumb but actually keeping the body in a more anabolic state for more of the time (bearing in mind that most of the anabolic effects from a bout of training drop off after about 36-48 hours) wins out in the end. The proviso is that you have to provide your body with the extra nutrition it needs in order to be able to continually repair and restore the protein structures</div>
This seems to be the mantra we all live by, but this formula has produced nothing but mediocrity for the better part of a 15 year lifting career, at least for me.
What do I mean by mediocrity? Whenever I've bulked in the past according to those very principles, it's at best a 50/50 split between LBM and fat gain (barring noob gains), and the LBM goes bye-bye with the next cut. I see it happen over and over again. Guys go from skinnyfat to fatfat back to skinnyfat. I remember a funny quote that my father once said to me when I was young...the definition of "insanity" is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results!
Barring the genetically gifted, there's an inherent flaw in the "commonly accepted logic" that you summarized so eloquently in the above paragraphs. I'll be dammed if I know what it is, but I do know that for these last four months, I couldn't have been more opposite in what "common knowledge" says the proper way to bulk is, and yet, the numbers provide undeniable proof that something pretty cool happened despite being constantly ill, a low carb diet intake, and extremely infrequent, non-failure training.
Maybe Mentzer was on to something.
Anyhoo, it's fun to consider why things happened as they did. I'm open to any more feedback on this issue. If you think you know why such a lackluster training plan lead to such great results, I'm all ears! But I do know one thing. For the first time, it ain't broke, so I ain't fixing anything!!
Squats:
Highlight lift, 315 x 1 (almost 2)
only 20 pounds from a previous PR!
Jumping pullups
3 x 7
Here's a new exercise I just invented, and man, it wiped me out. especially after squatting. I stood under a hammer chin rack, squatted ATG and jumped as high as I could. I grabbed the hammer grips pretty high up, and let myself fall downward, not unlike leaping from one bar to the other on the uneven bars. I did a full pullup to the lower ribcage, then dropped and immediately launched into another squat-jump-pullup. Couldn't believe how tired I was after a few sets of those.
LOL wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm really interested in knowing how your numbers changed over the same period for your main compounds?</div>
Numbers really didn't change much...certainly, no new PRs were set.
LOL wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It is also worth bearing in mind that HIT type training (ie. lots of going to failure) will take longer for your CNS to recover</div>
Very true! However, this is why I called what I'm doing a bastardized version of heavy duty. I didn't and don't go to failure...ever. Weird, eh?
LOL wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As far as muscle tissue itself is concerned, there are studies that show that damage on a cellular level can be repaired by the body even in the face of continued loading. What this means in reality is that it is ok to train a muscle frequently to benefit from the possible "summation" effect (where factors affecting protein synthesis are still active while being elevated again) even if the micro-trauma from the previous bout has not been completely repaired. That may seem dumb but actually keeping the body in a more anabolic state for more of the time (bearing in mind that most of the anabolic effects from a bout of training drop off after about 36-48 hours) wins out in the end. The proviso is that you have to provide your body with the extra nutrition it needs in order to be able to continually repair and restore the protein structures</div>
This seems to be the mantra we all live by, but this formula has produced nothing but mediocrity for the better part of a 15 year lifting career, at least for me.
What do I mean by mediocrity? Whenever I've bulked in the past according to those very principles, it's at best a 50/50 split between LBM and fat gain (barring noob gains), and the LBM goes bye-bye with the next cut. I see it happen over and over again. Guys go from skinnyfat to fatfat back to skinnyfat. I remember a funny quote that my father once said to me when I was young...the definition of "insanity" is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results!
Barring the genetically gifted, there's an inherent flaw in the "commonly accepted logic" that you summarized so eloquently in the above paragraphs. I'll be dammed if I know what it is, but I do know that for these last four months, I couldn't have been more opposite in what "common knowledge" says the proper way to bulk is, and yet, the numbers provide undeniable proof that something pretty cool happened despite being constantly ill, a low carb diet intake, and extremely infrequent, non-failure training.
Maybe Mentzer was on to something.
Anyhoo, it's fun to consider why things happened as they did. I'm open to any more feedback on this issue. If you think you know why such a lackluster training plan lead to such great results, I'm all ears! But I do know one thing. For the first time, it ain't broke, so I ain't fixing anything!!
Squats:
Highlight lift, 315 x 1 (almost 2)
only 20 pounds from a previous PR!
Jumping pullups
3 x 7
Here's a new exercise I just invented, and man, it wiped me out. especially after squatting. I stood under a hammer chin rack, squatted ATG and jumped as high as I could. I grabbed the hammer grips pretty high up, and let myself fall downward, not unlike leaping from one bar to the other on the uneven bars. I did a full pullup to the lower ribcage, then dropped and immediately launched into another squat-jump-pullup. Couldn't believe how tired I was after a few sets of those.
Slapz, thanks for your thoughts. It's very interesting isn't it? Seeing that your load numbers didn't change much during the period where you seemed to have added over six pounds of lean mass makes me wonder what exactly the measurement shows? Certainly, for me, if I added six pounds of muscle I would expect to be measurably stronger in my main compounds. If you were leaner then it might be due to changes in water retention, bone mass, tendons, ligaments, fascia, possible viscera enlargement, or perhaps thicker skin! I think our ears continue to grow as we age so that might account for a few grams too.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Here's a new exercise I just invented, and man, it wiped me out. especially after squatting. I stood under a hammer chin rack, squatted ATG and jumped as high as I could. I grabbed the hammer grips pretty high up, and let myself fall downward, not unlike leaping from one bar to the other on the uneven bars. I did a full pullup to the lower ribcage, then dropped and immediately launched into another squat-jump-pullup. Couldn't believe how tired I was after a few sets of those.</div>
That's a great exercise. How about calling them Jump-Up-Down-Pull-UPs (JUDPUPs for short)?
Very Crossfit in style (although CF would probably have you do 5 heavyish deads right before the JUDPUPs in five rounds for time! With a single high bar and enough headroom you can jump up to grab the bar then do a muscle-up, back down to floor, rinse, repeat. Also, very hard to do with just body weight.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Here's a new exercise I just invented, and man, it wiped me out. especially after squatting. I stood under a hammer chin rack, squatted ATG and jumped as high as I could. I grabbed the hammer grips pretty high up, and let myself fall downward, not unlike leaping from one bar to the other on the uneven bars. I did a full pullup to the lower ribcage, then dropped and immediately launched into another squat-jump-pullup. Couldn't believe how tired I was after a few sets of those.</div>
That's a great exercise. How about calling them Jump-Up-Down-Pull-UPs (JUDPUPs for short)?
I've been doing a much lowered frequency lately on the OldGrey routine, and still made MM gains. Arms (my barometer) are over 16-1/2" again, but fat is up too; as I've haven't had time or energy for cardio. Need to get some of that soon; I'm getting more lethargic than ever, partly why I've missed some workouts even while between projects. It's a downward spiral I'll have to break.
Congrats on the gains, Slaps!
Congrats on the gains, Slaps!