some ephedrine questions

[Nemesis7884]

from the faq

Quote[/b] ]E/C was never intended to be cycled. Clen was never intended to be used chronically, but instead only as needed.

People often confuse E/C with Clen because they both involve the beta-2 receptors. Clen is a potent specific agonist to the receptor and causes rapid downregulation of the receptor. E/C is NOT a specific agonist, but instead works in a round about way to increase circulating norepinephrine and epinephrine. The caffeine is also an adenosine inhibitor.

It has been demonstrated that E/C actually get more effective over time. This has been attributed to an increase in thyroid receptors.

and

Quote[/b] ]The benefits of E/C while bulking is a nutrient partitioning effect. Your metabolic rate stays greatly elevated and your strength is augmented by the caffeine. You should take E/C every two hours at half dose regardless of what diet you are using.

this is pretty new to me

ephedrine not to cycle?

take it every time even when bulking without a break?

isn't that kind of contradictory when he writes that a high carb intake interferes with ephedrine...usually when you bulk your carb intake is pretty high...he probably is looking just at the partitionning effect?

Quote[/b] ]Keep carbs relatively low while using ephedrine. Insulin counter acts the effects of ephedrine and will ultimately hinder fat loss if carbs remain too high. This does not mean you must go on a ketogenic diet. If total calories are low enough carbs become less of an issue. But if you are trying to keep muscle by lowering calories only slightly, the carbs will sabotage ephedrine’s action

what do you think is the maximum safe dose? (185-190 lbs), i used to take 100mg ephe / 800mg caffeine so far...?

 

[Totentanz]

E/C stacked always seems to make my breath smell really bad after a few hours. Women don't seem to like that much.

 

[Nemesis7884]

who the f*** cares? take chewing gums

what about the statements???

 

[BIZ]

Quote[/b] ]what do you think is the maximum safe dose? (185-190 lbs), i used to take 100mg ephe / 800mg caffeine so far...?

100mg is the RECOMMENDED maximum safe dose.  I personally never used more than that.  I also split my dosages up a bit more than most people.  I took my ephedrine and caffeine four times a day in smaller doses, i.e. 25E/200C every 3 hours from waking.  

 

[Nemesis7884]

and do you cycle or not?

just for cutting or?

 

[BIZ]

I do not cycle when I am using ephedrine (it has been banned by my bb'ing organization, so I am attempting to refrain from using it, although I miss it). It does not act on receptors, so it cannot downregulate them, so really no need to cycle it unless you miss the jacked feeling you get for the first few weeks while you use it. I quit getting that stimulant effect after about two weeks, but the thermogenic/nutrient partinioning effect remains as long as you take it. I haven't studied the topic in quite some time, so if there are more up-to-date opinions out there, someone please feel free to add on or correct my reply.

Also, as far as when to use it. I use it for both bulking or cutting. For bulking I use it more for damage control, and for cutting I use it more for accelerated fat loss while preserving as much lean mass as possible.

 

[Bryan Haycock]

Quote[/b] (Nemesis7884 @ May 03 2005,4:06)]

Quote[/b] ]this is pretty new to me ephedrine not to cycle?

You have to be careful not to take things out of context. The original intent of using ephedrine is to correct metabolic issues related to previously obese individuals. These individuals generally have a chronically slow metabolism and particularly a reduced thermic effect of food (TEF) response. Using ephedrine hcl + caffeine in a 1:10 ratio has been shown to correct this deficit by elevating metabolism by 8-10% on average. This have been shown to be effective at preventing obese people from gaining the weight back.

Use of ephedrine in this way (20mgEhcl+200mgC 3 times daily) is a long term solution for this population. Once they begin using it they are never to quit using it.

Quote[/b] ]...take it every time even when bulking without a break? isn't [sic] that kind of contradictory when he writes that a high carb intake interferes with ephedrine...usually when you bulk your carb intake is pretty high...he probably is looking just at the partitionning effect?

When read in the original article I was not talking about bulking. Only dieting.

Quote[/b] ]what do you think is the maximum safe dose? (185-190 lbs), i used to take 100mg ephe / 800mg caffeine so far...?

The highest dosages use in research are 150mg ephedrine hcl and 1,500 mgs cafeine over a 24 hour period. Experience has shown 1,500mgs caffeine to be really high and leads to significant side effects (heart rate, etc).

So, bottom line, you run the risk of side effects any time you use ephedrine and caffeine. The more you use the higher the risks. As the mounting political battle rages on, more and more research piles up on either side of the safety question. Some studies, like the earliest ones, show ephedrine +caffeine to be a safe (i.e. at least as safe as any prescription drug for that purpose) and effective tool for long term weight control. Neweer studies funded by activist groups are mostly case studies of individuals with some problem or other determined to be linked to ephedra products.

I always try to avoid telling people to do anything that might cause problems in a public setting so my comments are mostly for education, not necessarily endorsment.