Tabata style aerobics

[Fausto]

Guys/girls

I have come across some interesting ideas for doing these workouts, including using squats and other compound exercises.

From the research produced by Dr. Tabata, the subjects who performed the 20 sec high speed/10 second slow routine benefited 9 fold in fat loss compared to subjects performing 70% VO2max 1 hour protocol.

That is something in anyone's book.

For one I am sick of the blubber I am carrying even though it does not look like much but I could look so much better without it!

We at HST believe in doing the least possible work for the best possible results so this surely fits the bill!

Opinions anyone? Research findings other than the one I mentioned (from the C. Bass website by the way), he does not ring as a Bull Shitter to me.

 

[faz]

fausto a bit of track here mate but..i to carry a bit more than i should (age and all that) i am now into my 5s so instead of doing the normal 3xwk workout i normaly increment every other workout so three increments in the 5s..ie...
90   90   95   95   100   100
m     w   f     m     w      f
i decided to lose a bit of fat but dont like dieting so i have been doing full body workouts 7 days a week for the last 9 days ..i have tried to eat the same as on a 3xwk but i have had to up it a bit and i am still losing weight...because i am near max weight 5s  i dont think rbe will catch up to soon so the way i have been doing it is  ...use the same weight for 7days then up it for another 7 and so on when i get to my final weight i am going to carry on for another 2wks giving me 5ws on 5s so it will look like this
just using weights above as example
90k 7days 3sets
95k 7days 3sets
100k 7days 3sets
100k or more 14days 2sets plus metabolic set.
my trousers are looser allready after 8 days and still feel strong..
 

 

[imported_ephman]

hey,
i think the tabata study dealt with anaerobic capacity between moderate cardio and 20/10 hiit. now the study came out with the findings that with the hiit style the study showed about a 30% increase in anaerobic capacity. i don't believe it had anything to do with fat, but maybe i'm wrong. now there is a famous study by a canadian doctor named tremblay that found a 9 fold increase in fatloss with a hiit style of cardio (sorry i can't remember the on/off interval times studied).
i actually just posted an article i found that might be of interest to you for a workout. now i can't vouch for it as i'm about to give it a shot. Click Here.
ephman

 

[Fausto]

Eph

Quote[/b] ](sorry i can't remember the on/off interval times studied)

It is the 20/10 interval as per std Tabata.

Thanks for the link, I also found something intersting yesterday, check this out:

Dan John's tabata method

Holy crap - looks like murder

and this is another variety:

Another Tabata

Also sounds interesting!

BTW - I tried std Tabata with stationary bike this morning, all I had was my morning coffee (I'm Portuguese so I like this strong and black, little sugar), my energy feels good, will keep going for a week or two to see effects.

Bloody holliday left me with over 15% BF, funny no weight increase just blubber on the midsection, and some lack of defenition on the rest of the body.

 

[Fausto]

Faz

I hear you, I should have also lost using the 5x week program I was on, but the flab was not going away fast enough, and I was also not gaining that much, except that my muscles flet tighter than ever and I feel I gained some size, besides it shows on my arms and upper body, even the legs.

Anyway, I am not disappointed and in fact I am going to go on it again, for now while I wait for the partner to join me, I'll do 3x week with Tabata in between, but when he does I'll do 5x week with Tabata as a warmup.

Besides he can also do with weight loss and has agreed to try out the Tabata!

Yep, I think we may have slightly different metabolisms but you ceratinly have a point and I hear you!

 

[Rakki]

Whoa Fausto interesting find!

I think I'm gonna try this, only thing is ppl at the gym are gonna be looking at me like I'm some kinda weirdo lol

and in the gym for only 4 mins hmm...

sounds good though, and I agree Clarence Bass comes across as a pretty reliable source (I got his book lean for life and I treat his diet advice as the holy grail on food consumption)

 

[faz]

fausto do you have to stop at 4mins or can you carry on untill you cant do anymore..ie..instead of eight 20secs..you could do 14 or more..

 

[robefc]

Hi guys,

Seems like an extreme version of HIIT to me, there was a massive and very informative thread on bodybuilding.com about HIIT about 3 years ago and I seem to remember the rest intervals were supposed to be 3 times that of the 'working' intervals - so I guess you could say tabat is 6 times harder!

I currently do 10 mins HIIT after my workout so I'm looking forward to trying this after my next workout - one thing I would say is that I've always read a HIIT workout should be treated like a weight traning workout, i.e. protein and carbs before and after. I'm presuming this is because the actual exercise isn't designed to burn fat like long boring low intensity cardio, but jacks up your metabolism etc so fat more fat is burned for the ret of the day (and less calories are burned in the actual cardio which is obviously a good thing if trying to grow or maintain body mass).

I wouldn't like to try HIIT/tabata without consuming some protein and carbs, especially protein with cortisol levels high etc, does that make sense?

Also, I did a boxing training course once and after the actual boxing stuff we did intervals of things like squat thrusts and I was always completely laid out after them, I wonder if squat thrusts would be a decent exercise to use for tabata?

Cheers

Rob

Cheers

Rob

 

[Fausto]

Faz

Quote[/b] ]fausto do you have to stop at 4mins or can you carry on untill you cant do anymore..ie..instead of eight 20secs..you could do 14 or more..

Are you a sucker for punishment? LOL

To be straight forward you can, it is up to you, but why, Dr. Tabata in his research found the 4 minutes enough to cause a 9 fold fat burning effect from it, so why do more? I can't say wheather it will improve the fat bunring, but I guess you can to be straight about it.

Quote[/b] ]I think I'm gonna try this, only thing is ppl at the gym are gonna be looking at me like I'm some kinda weirdo
and in the gym for only 4 mins hmm...

Racki

They probably alreay do as you do HST, so what's different?

On the other hand...who cares? As long as you are doing it right and getting the benefit...but you could always use it as a warm-up, seems to work for me...only thing is I may not be doing it as Tabata pointed out (max speed = +/- 90 RPM) for a exercise bike. Darn, that is way fast, don't know if I can go that fast, next time I'll make a point of checking the speed.

Rob

Quote[/b] ]I wouldn't like to try HIIT/tabata without consuming some protein and carbs, especially protein with cortisol levels high etc, does that make sense?

I think that is by default, only difference would bve whether you are cutting or bulking, but yep your diet should be kept as intended and not adjusted around the Tabata routine.

Quote[/b] ]I wonder if squat thrusts would be a decent exercise to use for tabata?

I gave it a bash just to try the other day, did not even try the Tabata way, and yoh man...it kicks @$$ big time...it should be great I think...only thing is I could not get used to the sumo stance at all

 

[faz]

tried it on saturday using punch bag 4mins..definetly got me breathing heavy..might give it a go on back squats on a smith machine so i can click the weight back in for 10 secs
fausto... Are you a sucker for punishment? LOL
not really im just used to doing about 30mins cardio ...also though that the longer you did it maybe the more fat was burned

 

[Fausto]

Faz

Quote[/b] ]I'm just used to doing about 30mins cardio ...also though that the longer you did it maybe the more fat was burned

Tought that was you line of thought! Can't say mate.

The research as I said only got done on 4 minutes.

But you can always do the one on one of the threads I linked at the beggining, something called Tabata this.

Sounds like fun! And lots of sweating! I personally will do as little as I have to to get results!

 

[imported_ephman]

hi,

ok i did the tabata, it was tough no doubt, it was hard, and i like to think i'm in good cardio shape. i strapped on my heart rate monitor and went at it!!!! ok my first impression is it wasn't harder then my regular HIIT session i do once a week.

on/off
5 min warmup
30/30
30/34
45/45
45/75 (yes 75 seconds)
60/60
60/60
90/60
60/45
45/30
30
5 min cool down

now that's a brutal session, i feel like i want to die after that 90 all out sprint, i and swear i max it out and don't let up till the end (although i have cut a sec or 2 off in my day), legs like cement. and with the mixup in intervals i find my body never really catches on as to what's going to happen next. i found that with that tabata it took a while, a few "reps" to get my heart rate close to max (and i was giving it may all!!&#33, and then i was done. with my hiit workout i'm easily up there for much much longer stretches over a longer time. i'm no expert, but i remember reading a long time ago that the point to this type of workout basically comes down thermogenics. with my workout i'm sweating like i've never sweated before, and it keeps coming down till long after i'm through (sometimes even on the walk home). a big thing was that my heart rate came back down much quicker with tabata then with my hitt session, which i think is a good indicator. with the tabata those post workout effects, the buzz i usually get, just weren't there for me for as long or as intense. now will i give it up? no way infact i think i'm going to start using it once a week as well. i'm now in a cutting phase (post holiday), and i think that the short time period of tabata, and less intensity of my regular hiit session is PERFECT for a once a week after lifting day probably at the beginning of the week like a monday when i'm pusing the lightest pounds. but for a stand alone cardio session, it's not for me. so those are my rambled thoughts.

thanks for the bandwidth,
ephman

 

[faz]

ephman i agree i wouldnt use it on its own..yesterday i did tabbata with a skipping rope it was hard then i did 15mins steady on a bike..i think i will do it once a week..
my hiit day is..
2mins..punchbag
2mins stepups
do this for 20mins no rest inbetween
i also do some slow steady stuff as well
but the tabbata stuff makes a change cardio can get boring so cheers for the info fausto

 

[Fausto]

Faz

No probs, sounds like I made your day! Can only be happy for that!

Ephman

Your workout is madness, but then again each one for his own, if that is the way you like it, by all means!

I just found that Tabata, although hard, it is short and therefore right up my alley, I even squeeze first thing in the morning, if it gets me my goals I'll be one happy guy.

I also tried it yesterday on the punching bag, as per std, with a little leg movement as well, got good breathing going and sweated like a PIG!

Then went for the workout, productive and short.

Focus is definitely on, bag however does not compare to bike, my pulse gets to 142, max for my age 145, so that is as good as it gets.

Cheers guys

 

[robefc]

How did you figure your max is 145? I thought you took your age of 220 to get your theoretical maximum?

I'm 26 so I always look to get to 170-180 with HIIT as that's around 90%.

I think the warm up is important, I've started using longer HIIT intervals as it's easier to get the heart rate up but I think if you do a warm up that is fairly intense at the end then the heart rate should be already fairly high, if it starts low then the first 2 or 3 intervals will be spent getting it up there in the first place.

Still haven't tried it yet for other reasons but will do soon (although the mere idea of it makes me feel tired!

 another
reason for using longer intervals was because it meant the sprints weren't as intense&#33.

What did you mean by sumo stance incidentally fausto? I'm wondering if we both think squat thrusts are the same thing...

cheers
rob

 

[Fausto]

Quote[/b] ]How did you figure your max is 145? I thought you took your age of 220 to get your theoretical maximum?

There is a website I tried that says that is my safety level max = if i take 80% using the 220 calc i get 180 like you, only i'm 40 so 180 is then max for me, 144 is 80% of that.

Anyway I don't like the feeling of breathing like a locomotive

Does not feel confortable to me

Quote[/b] ]What did you mean by sumo stance incidentally Fausto?

The guy in the pics (on the link above) is picking the weights from bewteen his legs at the bottom while his legs are open, that to me is a sumo stance, I am wrong? And no I don't like it it feels dang unconfortable to me.

Anyway the tabata in the morning (stat byke) and the second round before the work-out (punching bag) is enough and I am sure will take me to where I want to be.

You youngsters can push the hell out of your lungs and heart, as for me I'll stick to 145 max.

 

[robefc]

Hi mate,

Ah, that makes sense regarding the heart rate, although my only concern would be is that my understanding of intense intervals (whether HIIT or tabata) is that you jack the heart rate up much higher than it would usually go during usualy cardio & that's where the superior fat burning effects come from...not 100% sure that's right mind!

Squat thrusts as I mean them are where you start in a kind of press up position with arms extended & then 'jump' your feet forwards as far as possible whilst keeping your arms in the same position so that you're now kind of crouched down. Not sure if that makes sense, maybe it's a british exercise!

To make it more fun, rather than just 'jumping' back to the start position, you can jump up in a star jump, back down to crouch & then back to the starting position.

Cheers

Rob

 

[robefc]

Well I tried it today but I think I got it slightly wrong.

I just did bodyweight squats as quickly as possible (about 20 reps in 20 seconds) and literally had to stop after the third interval because of the alctic acid build up in my legs!

I've just re-read one of the articles and it says it should be around 8 reps (obviously using a weight rather than just bodyweight) so I think maybe I got carried away with the whole intensity thing - that would explain why with HIIT you rest for 3 times as long as you 'sprint' for - so 20 seconds would be folllowed by a minute's rest instead of 10 seconds! Obviously the intervals in tabata are not meant to be as intense in the same way but maybe the effort is balanced out by doing a weight training exercise rather than cardio...and obviously the much shorter intervals of rest.

Attempt 2 coming up!

 

[robefc]

http://www.cbass.com/FATBURN.HTM

found this article referenced too - from this it appears that the 9 fold claim refers to the HIIT study rather than the tabata study....

 

[faz]

You youngsters can push the hell out of your lungs and heart, as for me I'll stick to 145 max.
thanks for calling me a youngster fausto (even though i am 47) i just cant get round the idea of only doing 4mins though..years of doing loads of cardio