Discussion in 'Basic Training Principles and Methods' started by budec, Feb 10, 2004.

  1. budec

    budec New Member

    I figured this would probably be the best place to post this... I have a question about increasing testosterone naturally... if I type that into google.com I get a bunch of pheromone ads or whatever it's called.

    I'm looking for research on what activities or diets can increase testosterone. For example I heard that Cortisol isn't "compatible" in the brain with testosterone, one or the other type of thing... also read that caffeine can increase cortisol levels... thus does large amounts of caffeine decrease testosterone? What about Ephernine?

    Also read that in the morning testosterone (in males) can increase by up to 25% and decrease about that same amount in the late evening... also said that working out produced an increase in testosterone as did competive sports.

    Anyone know of some good research papers (website or books) that deal with this?
  2. the_dark_master

    the_dark_master New Member

    Strange but true; compression of the testicles [​IMG] can increase test output for sometime after compression stops (pressure is about the same as applied to the arm when measuring blood pressure)
    Bear in mind this was from an article in MM2k - however I think Bill wouldn't have let it go to print without trying it at least once (or twice) ;)
  3. micmic

    micmic New Member

  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Lifting can increase testosterone and other hormones related to growth, such as all those HGH (Human Growth Hormone) supplements they try to sell us to keep us young. That's why some really OLD lifters still look relatively young. Aerobic activities like running can actually lower those same chemicals, but so can heat and certain foods, as well as stress (cortisol production is increased by stress). Competitive sports plays mostly a psychological role- just watching football or soccer has been shown to increase testosterone levels for fans of the winning team, and to decrease levels for fans of the losing team. Pornography can have the same psychological effects. And that old thing of no sex before a fight in boxing is a myth, unless it's just to make you REALLY unhappy so you knock a fool out fast and run home to the wife ;) . More sex actually increases testosterone production- supply and demand, I guess. :)
  5. [xeno]Julios

    [xeno]Julios New Member

  6. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    The efforts to naturally increase testosterone have proven to be useless as far as muscle growth goes. The miniscule increases from training, diet, supplements, and "other", have no effect on hypertrophy.

    In short, it is a dead end quest.
  7. [xeno]Julios

    [xeno]Julios New Member

    hm - but if that study i linked to is sound, wouldn't the spike to 150 percent aid hypertrophy, if even indirectly?

    edit: and 150 percent is hardly miniscule!
  8. micmic

    micmic New Member

    150% of the baseline is a 50% increase. That study only shows that testosterone peaks after 1 week of abstinence. It doesn't show an overall average increase of testosterone.
  9. [xeno]Julios

    [xeno]Julios New Member

    Micmic: I understand now. I read it a bit more carefully and read that article you linked to - very informative, though I skimmed part 2.

    My current understanding of the ejaculation study indicates that without ejaculation, testosterone remains at a peak level, and does not fluctuate. If this is true, then it is perhaps a semantic matter of deciding whether abstinence "increases" testosterone, or "optimizes" it. Given that regular ejaculation is a more-or-less normal activity for most of us, it stands to reason that abstinence will increase testosterone relative to this norm.

    The bigger question is whether the bioactive portion of this testosterone is increased at all. Even if it remains at the same percentage, then it's absolute value has still increased, since it's the same percentage of a higher total.

    Bryan: when you said that these measures have no (demonstrated) effect on hypertrophy, were you taking into account the abstinence thingie?
  10. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    No, I don't believe you will see a signficant effect. You are still within the normal physiological range for most people. Some people have a higher baseline, other have a lower baseline. Your testosterone levels will fluctuate all the time with little if any effect on muscle growth.

    Now, I'm not saying that it doesn't matter at all, I'm just saying that natural fluctuations in testosterone levels haven't been shown to make or break your results in the gym.
  11. [xeno]Julios

    [xeno]Julios New Member

    but perhaps a sustained period of no fluctuation, remaining at peak levels, will have an effect?
    I'm having difficulty seeing how a study could be designed to show that fluctuations have or don't have significant effects associated with testosterone.

    If, however, a more detailed study was done with abstinence (or maybe that study is detailed, I only saw the abstract) - we could then be more certain - but until then, how can you make that call?
    Not saying you're misinformed at all - quite the opposite - I just don't see the logic yet.
  12. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    I think you're trying to say that any increase in testosterone must help. I'm not disagreeing with you.
  13. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    Here is a good paper that can help us get an idea of what kind of changes we can expect to see with different levels of testostorone:

    Woodhouse LJ, Reisz-Porszasz S, Javanbakht M, Storer TW, Lee M, Zerounian H, Bhasin S. Development of models to predict anabolic response to testosterone administration in healthy young men. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 May;284(5):E1009-17. Epub 2003 Jan 07.

    Considerable heterogeneity exists in the anabolic response to androgen administration; however, the factors that contribute to variation in an individual's anabolic response to androgens remain unknown. We investigated whether testosterone dose and/or any combination of baseline variables, including concentrations of hormones, age, body composition, muscle function, and morphometry or polymorphisms in androgen receptor could explain the variability in anabolic response to testosterone. Fifty-four young men were treated with a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist and one
    of five doses (25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg/wk) of estosterone enanthate (TE) for 20 wk. Anabolic response was defined as a change in whole body fat-free mass (FFM) by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), appendicular FFM (by DEXA), and thigh muscle volume (by magnetic resonance imaging) during TE treatment. We used univariate and multivariate analysis to identify the subset of baseline
    measures that best explained the variability in anabolic response to testosterone supplementation. The three-variable model of TE dose, age, and baseline prostate-specific antigen (PSA) level explained 67% of the variance in change in whole body FFM. Change in appendicular FFM was best explained (64% of the variance) by the linear combination of TE dose, baseline PSA, and leg press strength, whereas TE dose, log of the ratio of luteinizing hormone to testosterone concentration, and age explained 66% of the variation in change in thigh muscle volume. The models were further validated by using Ridge analysis and cross-validation in data subsets. Only the model using testosterone dose, age, and PSA was a consistent predictor of change in FFM in subset analyses. The length of CAG tract was only a weak predictor of change in thigh muscle volume and lean body mass. Hence, the anabolic response of healthy, young men to exogenous testosterone administration can largely be predicted by the
    testosterone dose.
  14. [xeno]Julios

    [xeno]Julios New Member

    yes, but not just a temporary increase due to natural fluctuations - a sustained period wherein T-levels are peaking and not fluctuating.
  15. [xeno]Julios

    [xeno]Julios New Member

    not sure exactly what that paper is trying to say with respect to the discussion - if i understood it at all, it's saying that there is a correlation between the exogenous dose, age, baseline, and the hypertrophic response.

    It doesn't seem to quantify the changes - all it seems to indicate is (statistically) how much of the change in lean body mass is due to the three main factors, which include the dose.

    I didn't get the CAG tract thing, but overall the study just seems to indicate a positive correlation between dosing with T, and an increase in LBM.
  16. Michael_S

    Michael_S New Member

  17. [xeno]Julios

    [xeno]Julios New Member

    Michael - thanks for that extremely useful tip :)
  18. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    Its also more important to notice that while testosterone increase may happen, it may not cause a significant differnce in fTest, or an actual significant difference in one subject. Sure it should, but whether its measureable is a different story. I am trying to download the article in question as well, hopefully it wont be all in chinese.
  19. [xeno]Julios

    [xeno]Julios New Member

    yep - see my above post:

    i'm guessing it's a lot more expensive to measure free testosterone right? But again, according to the article micmic linked, the bioactive portion of testosterone comprises both Ftest, AND the albumin bound portion (which together comprises 56 percent of total if i'm not mistaken.

    So even if Ftest isn't increased in magnitude, but albumin bound is, then that is a promising result
  20. anoopbal

    anoopbal New Member

    Is there a possibilty that long-term resistance training can result in an increase of resting levels of testosterone?

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