Training a muscle every 48 hours really IS optimal for growth...
- Thread starter anab0lic_
- Start date
TangoDown
Member
I miss doing 6 fullbody workouts weekly ... being 21 was so much easier
Check Grunt11's log. He's 51 years old too.
I've read it already (been spending some time going through the logs since re-visiting the site). It's the same issue I (everyone) mentioned a few spots up: time management. Carving space out every other day is workable, carving space out 6x a week and getting the caloric intake to match ... a bit less workable
.We should really consider indoctrination of kids. Get them while they're young - worked for smoking, religion and McDonalds well enough
... 'don't waste years 17 through to 23, enjoy those ridiculous hormone levels and lift-eat-repeat' ...I've been doing HST for ~ 8yrs. Started with an U-L split, x3 per week (6 days a week, Sat or Sun off), then spent a year or two at 5-6 times a week and after that mixed it up a bit w/3 or 4x weekly (easier once you finish Uni and have to show up 9-5 + travel times), focusing more on the compound lifts.
6x full-body is not difficult at all if you have the time and lifestyle (ala, being 21 and still studying w/partying ... flexibility etc) that can accommodate the commitment. You end up with a mild increase in total volume because each actual workout is lessened compared to a 3x structure.
Atm, I'm training every other day but not eating for mass gains, pretty much on maintenance, although it's still a fairly high intake given I have a significant cardio component as well.
6x full-body is not difficult at all if you have the time and lifestyle (ala, being 21 and still studying w/partying ... flexibility etc) that can accommodate the commitment. You end up with a mild increase in total volume because each actual workout is lessened compared to a 3x structure.
Atm, I'm training every other day but not eating for mass gains, pretty much on maintenance, although it's still a fairly high intake given I have a significant cardio component as well.
In the 15-18kg range.
The most important aspect of any bulking program is eating for it. Training 6x a week was perfect for cutting. And re: joints - taking about 15 fish oil capsules a day is something I can't recommend enough. Glucosamine is also very effective for some (I used to get more out of it but fish oils work a lot better for me - took some time to figure this out).
Back to bulking though. You (anyone) won't grow a damn if the food input isn't match the time and energy spent training. Doing a 'slow bulk' or 'clean bulk' is really not a reality for 95% of people. The minor genetic differences that separate elite athletes like Phelps and someone as energetic and massive as Ben Wallace (former NBA C/PF) used to be make a big difference in terms of the muscle : fat ratio. Obviously in terms of gene expression, it's a minor detail and nothing like being predisposed to breast cancer or male pattern baldness, brown hair vs blond vs red hair etc. But whether you're gaining weight at a 51:49 rate or 60:40 etc (just spitballing the actual ratio or %'s) means that proper bulking and proper cutting are the only real ways for most of us to go about it.
Gain 10kgs, lose 4, probably a net of 5kgs LBM (increasing bone density is also a form of LBM, albeit not the same #'s as muscle gain). Of just about everyone I've seen trying to 'clean bulk' the only people to successfully do that are professional athletes. Take a look at the transformation of Michael Jordan from 85 - 92/3, Alonzo Mourning from 93 to 98, any # of AFL stars (Australian football). If you aren't in the genetic elite (and you may well be one of the 3-5%, SOMEONE has to be), then it's going to work better if you bulk properly, then cut properly.
Re: training 6x per week, my A-B program was roughly this:
A-
2x Weighted Dips
2x Chins
2x Squats // Leg Press
2x Shoulder exercise (Military, DBell Press - standing or seated, whichever)
1x Bicep exercise
1x Tricep exercise
B-
2x Incline // Flat Bench
2x Bent Barbell Row (Pendlay)
2x Deads (have to do them after the first two exercises or there's nothing left, also properly warmed up)
2x Shoulder
1x Bicep
1x Tricep
Getting to the 2nd fortnight of heavy weights, I'd only really push one of squats or deads. If pushing Deads, I'd do Leg Press for that cycle. I like the Leg Press a lot, it works my quads a lot more than squats do (body proportion at work).
Other things I've experimented with a lot are:
-Cluster reps: love 'em, great for strength at the end of a cycle
-Negatives: great for Bench (or any 'press' exercise), less so for Chins (I find the arms take too much load at the start of the 'pulling' actions)
-'Bouncing Negatives' at the bottom of chins - really hard to explain, the Uni's gymnastic coach taught me: meant to work your technique a lot, building the 'explosiveness' that all 'experts' say they've nailed. Not really sure how well they worked.
-One legged squats - these are the nut high, really hard to do them weighted and safely though. Definitely need the fully equipped cage for that.
The most important aspect of any bulking program is eating for it. Training 6x a week was perfect for cutting. And re: joints - taking about 15 fish oil capsules a day is something I can't recommend enough. Glucosamine is also very effective for some (I used to get more out of it but fish oils work a lot better for me - took some time to figure this out).
Back to bulking though. You (anyone) won't grow a damn if the food input isn't match the time and energy spent training. Doing a 'slow bulk' or 'clean bulk' is really not a reality for 95% of people. The minor genetic differences that separate elite athletes like Phelps and someone as energetic and massive as Ben Wallace (former NBA C/PF) used to be make a big difference in terms of the muscle : fat ratio. Obviously in terms of gene expression, it's a minor detail and nothing like being predisposed to breast cancer or male pattern baldness, brown hair vs blond vs red hair etc. But whether you're gaining weight at a 51:49 rate or 60:40 etc (just spitballing the actual ratio or %'s) means that proper bulking and proper cutting are the only real ways for most of us to go about it.
Gain 10kgs, lose 4, probably a net of 5kgs LBM (increasing bone density is also a form of LBM, albeit not the same #'s as muscle gain). Of just about everyone I've seen trying to 'clean bulk' the only people to successfully do that are professional athletes. Take a look at the transformation of Michael Jordan from 85 - 92/3, Alonzo Mourning from 93 to 98, any # of AFL stars (Australian football). If you aren't in the genetic elite (and you may well be one of the 3-5%, SOMEONE has to be
), then it's going to work better if you bulk properly, then cut properly.Re: training 6x per week, my A-B program was roughly this:
A-
2x Weighted Dips
2x Chins
2x Squats // Leg Press
2x Shoulder exercise (Military, DBell Press - standing or seated, whichever)
1x Bicep exercise
1x Tricep exercise
B-
2x Incline // Flat Bench
2x Bent Barbell Row (Pendlay)
2x Deads (have to do them after the first two exercises or there's nothing left, also properly warmed up)
2x Shoulder
1x Bicep
1x Tricep
Getting to the 2nd fortnight of heavy weights, I'd only really push one of squats or deads. If pushing Deads, I'd do Leg Press for that cycle. I like the Leg Press a lot, it works my quads a lot more than squats do (body proportion at work).
Other things I've experimented with a lot are:
-Cluster reps: love 'em, great for strength at the end of a cycle
-Negatives: great for Bench (or any 'press' exercise), less so for Chins (I find the arms take too much load at the start of the 'pulling' actions)
-'Bouncing Negatives' at the bottom of chins - really hard to explain, the Uni's gymnastic coach taught me: meant to work your technique a lot, building the 'explosiveness' that all 'experts' say they've nailed. Not really sure how well they worked.
-One legged squats - these are the nut high, really hard to do them weighted and safely though. Definitely need the fully equipped cage for that.
TangoDown
Member
Been doing deads and leg press because I don't have the coordination to squat to parallel while rehabbing from a bad ankle injury.
Been bulking at 3000 calories, getting in about 1 gram protein/lb.
15 fish oil tablets a day? I've heard that too many can cause blood thinning. I take fish oil, but only 2 tablets - which is about 1000mg of omega 3s a day.
Think I'm going to stick to the regular program since I'm still fairly new to lifting, but maybe down the line when progress slows, I'll start clustering and all that jazz, or looking into 6 days a week. We'll see.
Also, atm, though I don't want to look like a hippo, my goal is more strength than anything else.
Been bulking at 3000 calories, getting in about 1 gram protein/lb.
15 fish oil tablets a day? I've heard that too many can cause blood thinning. I take fish oil, but only 2 tablets - which is about 1000mg of omega 3s a day.
Think I'm going to stick to the regular program since I'm still fairly new to lifting, but maybe down the line when progress slows, I'll start clustering and all that jazz, or looking into 6 days a week. We'll see.
Also, atm, though I don't want to look like a hippo, my goal is more strength than anything else.
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6 days per week is only if you love being in the gym every day and can't help going back each morning. It's certainly not a special 'tier' to be reached.
I take the fish oil for colitis as well.
I would certainly recommend looking at 6 or so. Lyle suggests being in the ballpark of 6-10 IIRC. 2 is obviously better than none but it's not a particularly noticeable amount in terms of bio-availability and add that to the stresses your body is undergoing (resistance training).
2gms / kg (~ 1 / lb) is fine. If you ever plan to go for a genuine bulk, you're probably wanting to hit in the 3-4 / kg mark, (350-450 per day).
For someone who's quite new to lifting I can't strongly enough recommend the focusing of your workouts on big compound lifts; deads, bench, rows, cleans (if you have someone who can show you know), squats//leg press.
The ancillary stuff like curls, skullcrushers etc really aren't as important (I don't do them at all now and my arms are just fine at a true 17 inches.
I take the fish oil for colitis as well.
I would certainly recommend looking at 6 or so. Lyle suggests being in the ballpark of 6-10 IIRC. 2 is obviously better than none but it's not a particularly noticeable amount in terms of bio-availability and add that to the stresses your body is undergoing (resistance training).
2gms / kg (~ 1 / lb) is fine. If you ever plan to go for a genuine bulk, you're probably wanting to hit in the 3-4 / kg mark, (350-450 per day).
For someone who's quite new to lifting I can't strongly enough recommend the focusing of your workouts on big compound lifts; deads, bench, rows, cleans (if you have someone who can show you know), squats//leg press.
The ancillary stuff like curls, skullcrushers etc really aren't as important (I don't do them at all now and my arms are just fine at a true 17 inches.
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TangoDown
Member
3/kg for me would be about 215 grams of protein. 350 grams would be more like 5-6/kg for me.
Well the amount of capsules you take of fish oil depends on how much omega 3 is in each tablet. Some brands would require an intake of 4 tablets to get 1000mg of omega 3s, while others only require the intake of 1 tablet to get 1000mg. 4000mg is the highest dosage on the spectrum of safety in a healthy male before blood is thinned. I might start taking a higher dosage but I'm not going to go insane. 6 tablets would be 3000mg so that works.
Well the amount of capsules you take of fish oil depends on how much omega 3 is in each tablet. Some brands would require an intake of 4 tablets to get 1000mg of omega 3s, while others only require the intake of 1 tablet to get 1000mg. 4000mg is the highest dosage on the spectrum of safety in a healthy male before blood is thinned. I might start taking a higher dosage but I'm not going to go insane. 6 tablets would be 3000mg so that works.