Upper / Lower Spit 6 days a week

3

34blast

New Member
Hi,

I'm looking for comments about a 6 day upper / lower split and how it went for you?
I'm wondering if guys over 40 find this to be too much volume? I see some only do 4 day split.

I did a 12 day SD and today I finished 15s today with no issues so far. I'm only doing weight training and no cardio with the exception of some soccer once a week. I guess the only issue is I was a bit sore after the first 2 or 3 workouts of 15s even at a very low weight, but managed through it okay.

I'm not new and this will be my 1rst cycle after a cut, but 3rd cycle this year. So far, I've increased the weights, weight the same, but less body fat. I thought to try it this way this time for 2 reason:
1). I wanted to add more volume as suggested by Bryan since I'm not a newbie and want the suggested 60 reps minimum lower and 30 reps upper.
2). I actually have a routine and would prefer to go to the gym every day during the work week and not be there so long

Day 1
Bench (possible add flies or dips at 15 reps during the 5s)
Barbell Row
Lat pull down
Military Press
Dumbbell shrugs
Preacher Curl
Tricep extension (will switch to Close grip bench during 5s)

Day 2
Low bar back squat
Stiff-legged dead lifts (will switch to RDL or traditional during 5s)
Leg extension (possible do 15s during the 5s for volume)
Leg Curl (possible do 15s during the 5s for volume)
Calf raises (possible do 15s during the 5s for volume)
Hip abductor in (possible do 15s during the 5s for volume, seems to help avoid groin injury during soccer))
Hip abductor out (possible do 15s during the 5s for volume, seems to help avoid groin injury during soccer)
abs
 
Cut out the curls and extensions. They're unnecessary for hypertrophy and are not especially well suited to a 6-day split (especially for low bar back squats). If you want extra volume, get it from compounds and save your joints. Dips and chins/pulls are a great addition to facilitate this.

I would keep SLDL over RDL pretty much everytime, RDL is a very dangerous exercise and biomechanically not great for your lower back (why risk it?). Stiff Legged at least hits the back in a safe manner.
 
What Jester said (except I believe arm isolations are needed if you are advanced enough) and consider adding myo reps, at least for the 15's and 10's (again assuming you are advanced enough to require extra volume but do not have the time or energy for full sets). Also, a trap bar can take much of the bad form out of RDL and are safer than leg extensions.
 
Also, working each body part three times week, which is your plan, is what I now consider the absolute minimum for advanced lifters. I go up to 5 times per week on light workouts, 4 times for medium workouts and three times per week for heavy workouts and I am 69.
However, I do not know what stage of lifting you are in so you need to make adjustments accordingly. And remember, your exercise routine is only a part of your overall program.
 
@Jester, don't you mean that Romanians are safer than straight leg DL? Regardless neither of them are really suited for the higher weight/lower rep in my opinion. For the 5s, imo stick to traditional or sumo.
 
34blast said:
Hi,

I'm looking for comments about a 6 day upper / lower split and how it went for you?
I'm wondering if guys over 40 find this to be too much volume? I see some only do 4 day split.

I did a 12 day SD and today I finished 15s today with no issues so far. I'm only doing weight training and no cardio with the exception of some soccer once a week. I guess the only issue is I was a bit sore after the first 2 or 3 workouts of 15s even at a very low weight, but managed through it okay.

I'm not new and this will be my 1rst cycle after a cut, but 3rd cycle this year. So far, I've increased the weights, weight the same, but less body fat. I thought to try it this way this time for 2 reason:
1). I wanted to add more volume as suggested by Bryan since I'm not a newbie and want the suggested 60 reps minimum lower and 30 reps upper.
2). I actually have a routine and would prefer to go to the gym every day during the work week and not be there so long

Day 1
Bench (possible add flies or dips at 15 reps during the 5s)
Barbell Row
Lat pull down
Military Press
Dumbbell shrugs
Preacher Curl
Tricep extension (will switch to Close grip bench during 5s)

Day 2
Low bar back squat
Stiff-legged dead lifts (will switch to RDL or traditional during 5s)
Leg extension (possible do 15s during the 5s for volume)
Leg Curl (possible do 15s during the 5s for volume)
Calf raises (possible do 15s during the 5s for volume)
Hip abductor in (possible do 15s during the 5s for volume, seems to help avoid groin injury during soccer))
Hip abductor out (possible do 15s during the 5s for volume, seems to help avoid groin injury during soccer)
abs
Click to expand...

No problem at all, I am 49 and currently train full body 5/6 days a week (3 days on 1 day off) albeit at a slightly reduced daily volume, you are in effect only training each body part 3 times a week and that should be the minmum IMO so see no issues whatsoever

Edit: the only issue I could see is the number of reps during the 5s assuming you intend doing 30 for upper and 60 for lower unless you are getting to the total with the isolation exercises.
 
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Agreed. When in doubt or progress is stalled, increase frequency and decrease daily volume while increasing weekly effective volume and see what happens.
 
Finishing up the 10s, I added shrugs to upper and abs to lower days. I love the split. I can't comment yet if it is more effective for me than 3 day or not yet, but it seems to be. I would consider myself an intermediate and not advanced.

Just so I'm following what you are saying, the more advanced has more frequency and less volume. How many exercises is that per workout? Would it look like some advanced routine in the HST ebook? Or what would it look like? I'm planning to do what the ebook calls metabolic work during the 5's. e.g. Squat 3x5 with 2 x15 leg extensions etc.
 
Looks like my routine... 6 days split. I alternate hack squats on one leg day and DL's the next. I also agree, lose the leg extensions. I usually do a higher volume DB lunge set for a finisher...
I also do military presses on leg day. I find they take too much out of my incline presses...
Oh, I also alternate incline and flat benches weekly.
 
@34blast - more advanced in terms of frequency means 5-6 day full body, maintaining weekly volume and reducing session volume. Then slowly improve your work capacity and improve session volume over time.

What are your measurements and strength numbers?
 
34blast said:
Finishing up the 10s, I added shrugs to upper and abs to lower days. I love the split. I can't comment yet if it is more effective for me than 3 day or not yet, but it seems to be. I would consider myself an intermediate and not advanced.

Just so I'm following what you are saying, the more advanced has more frequency and less volume. How many exercises is that per workout? Would it look like some advanced routine in the HST ebook? Or what would it look like? I'm planning to do what the ebook calls metabolic work during the 5's. e.g. Squat 3x5 with 2 x15 leg extensions etc.
Click to expand...

Just as a followup on this - the book doesn't really cover higher frequency routines but whenever I get around to writing an updated version, I plan to include high frequency routine protocols as well as a plethora of other ways of implementing HST effectively.
 
I don't want to commit to a hard date just yet. I'm finishing up my current novel then starting another, so it's really up in the air. But I was thinking January 2015. Obviously any input from you on the high frequency would be great. I don't like writing too much on things I haven't experimented with extensively myself, which is why I haven't even started the book yet and since high frequency is not an option for me any time soon, that would be very helpful. I do still want to do a few cycles of the wernbom variation that mikeynov and I were talking about in that one thread so I can write about that, but I also want the other end of the spectrum with the higher frequency/lower volume to put in there as a contrast.

Another thing that I would like to experiment with is two-a-day training. I'm considering doing this one myself, since I should be able to commit to hitting the gym before work then again after work on three different days of the week.
 
Waterbury is a fucktard. He was about a decade late with this article. We all have known for a long time that of the options he gives, option B is stupid. That's part of the basis of HST is that option B is bad. All he's doing is telling us stuff that we already fucking know and presenting it in pretty much the most retarded fashion possible. Not even kidding here, Rihad here on the forums is someone that I've clashed with on a few dozen different instances and I can confidently say that Rihad has more knowledge of basic training principles than this money grubbing shithead Waterbury. If I needed someone to help me construct a routine and I had to choose between Waterbury or Rihad, you can bet your ass I would choose Rihad.

Also, we've been talking about high frequency training here at HST since 2004, if not earlier. My third or fourth cycle ever was training six days a week. Pretty sure I recall Jester was doing this thing back then too. Old and Grey has been training this way for fucking centuries now. This guy is telling us shit we already know and proving that he knows less about it than we do in the process. Reading through the rest of the article, it's like in 2006, he decided to browse through old threads on the HST board, then trolled Lyle's mean forum for old posts, then took Lyle's generic bulking program and HST, mish-mashed it together, put some different names on it, called it "Waterbury's Training Protocol" and went and wiped his ass with the dollar bills t-nation gave him for trolling us to buy supplements. His proposed routine is a complete and utter fail. You would be better off just using Bryan's vanilla HST template, which while not perfectly in line with current research, is still far superior to this nugget that Chad shit out on t-nation. Or even do Lyle's generic bulking routine, since Chad basically took that routine and tried to make a shitter version of it, because if he had just straight up jacked Lyle's version, then it would work too good so people wouldn't need to buy the supplements these sleazeballs are trying to shove down everyone's throats all the god damned time. Notice how an integral part of his routine is taking the correct supplements that you can only get from these fuckers. Hey, only $35 for their protein, originally $60 but you get 40% off! It's highest quality protein because it says so with a nice little bullet point next to it, so obviously it's true. Shit. You'd be better off just buying fucking body fortress protein for dirt cheap at walmart before giving these shills any more money.
I hate con artists and these guys try to pretend like they are giving you information for free but they really aren't because they are trying to swindle you in to buying their overpriced bullshit supplements every fucking step of the way. I like how comments are disabled on that article. Fucking asshole. Because he knows he is full of shit so he can't enable comments or people will call him out.

FACT: If you browse Waterbury's history, you'll find something he has written in the past or future that directly contradicts a point he has made in this article.
FACT: That previous fact applies to every single article he has ever written. There will always be conflicting information between his articles. Because he doesn't care about truth, or science. He cares about money. Specifically your money. Getting it's way into his pockets. In summary, while Waterbury isn't the worst of the t-nation bunch, he is a whore and he can't make up his mind about anything except for the fact that he needs our money.
 
Lmao! Tell us how you REALLY feel!
If there is anything about articles like these, is that they rehash and reprint the same old shit constantly.
 
Totentanz said:
I don't want to commit to a hard date just yet. I'm finishing up my current novel then starting another, so it's really up in the air. But I was thinking January 2015. Obviously any input from you on the high frequency would be great. I don't like writing too much on things I haven't experimented with extensively myself, which is why I haven't even started the book yet and since high frequency is not an option for me any time soon, that would be very helpful. I do still want to do a few cycles of the wernbom variation that mikeynov and I were talking about in that one thread so I can write about that, but I also want the other end of the spectrum with the higher frequency/lower volume to put in there as a contrast.

Another thing that I would like to experiment with is two-a-day training. I'm considering doing this one myself, since I should be able to commit to hitting the gym before work then again after work on three different days of the week.
Click to expand...

Two-a-day, three days a week is the ideal breakdown IMO. I'll be implementing it shortly on a M-W-F basis, with a powerlifting focus but obviously progressive overload being the foundation etc. There's a few lifts that are the exception - OL'ing being some, front squats and OL-squats. But yeh, definitely interested in contributing when the time comes.
 
Keep me in the loop on what you decide to do. When I get the time to commit to that kind of a routine, I'll log it, so any input at that time would be invaluable as well. I'm thinking something along the lines of a powerlifting focus as well. I have a template I made for a routine along those lines years ago that I'm toying with, I just need to find the time in my life to be able to fit that much gym time in. I want to focus on squats, deads and bench primarily.
 
Totentanz said:
Keep me in the loop on what you decide to do. When I get the time to commit to that kind of a routine, I'll log it, so any input at that time would be invaluable as well. I'm thinking something along the lines of a powerlifting focus as well. I have a template I made for a routine along those lines years ago that I'm toying with, I just need to find the time in my life to be able to fit that much gym time in. I want to focus on squats, deads and bench primarily.
Click to expand...

M am:

10 - 12 deads, 90-95%, singles. Turn singles into doubles when the weight won't increase.
8 - 12 reps of assistance exercise (rack pull, deficit or good morning)

M pm:

12-15 front squats, 80-90%
12-15 chins - probably around 5-8RM range
12-15 clustered bench reps, 85-90% range. 3s pause work is viable alternative.


W am:

10-15 deficit deads, neutral spine (we're focusing on the break, this carries to deads and bottom of squat - driving through quads, not hips). Singles. Using 85% of 1RM for floor dead.
12 reps OHP/BTN. 85-90%, clustered.

Wpm:

12 - 15 HBBS - 85-90%. Max-stim/singles on the minute.
12-15 deads, 85%. Start with clusters of 4 and try to reduce the total @ of clusters to hit your rep total. Will require you to train to failure (i.e. at the verge of), but not actually perform a failed rep.


F am:

12-15 deads,turn your 3RM into 4RM. Simple as that.
6-10 rack pull singles, 90-95%

F pm:

Repeat M pm



That's what I'll be doing post-knee procedure.

When back in surplus, there will be some higher-rep work thrown in.

Additional accessories that may be useful, depending on weakness, technique requirements etc;

- Shrugs
- GHR
- Leg press
- Snatch-grip deadlift
- CG bench
- Dips


Something like that.

Friday's deadlift volume should beat you up but not enough that Monday can't be a PR day if you're in the zone.
 
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