Varying frequency throughout cycle

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imported_gazz

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I'm new to this. Gave HST a whirl about a year ago & for whatever reason only got a few days into the cycle & packed in (from a HIT background & couldn't get my head round training not to failure). Anyway since then I've played around with a bit more volume & NTF training (Gironda etc) & thought I'd try again.

After much reading, & in view of the fact I've got a few pounds to lose, I thought I'd open on what by consencus seems to be quite an advanced version, full body training everyday, alternating A & B full body routines. I'm about a week into it on the 15's & enjoying the workouts immensely. Now to the point of the post.

I'd like opinions on a thought that I had regarding the frequency of training. It seems that one of the main the main reasons that you can "get away" with everyday training on HST is the fact that you are not traing to failure. Nevertheless each workout within the two week rep cycle will see an increase in intensity until you are finally at your max for the given rep range.

Two things have struck me: one is the effect of cumulative fatigue and the second the ever increasing inroad into recovery given the ever increasing load. A solution which I have thought of, and on which I would be grateful for comments would be as follows: train the first six workouts within a given rep scheme (3xA, & 3XB) everyday for the first six days. These should be relatively managable given the lower weights involved. Then allow 36 hrs between the next two workouts, to allow a little extra systemic recovery as the load increases. Then allow the full 48hrs between the final workouts at maximum intensity. This would look something like this:

AM PM
Day 1 W/O 1
Day 2 W/O 2
Day 3 W/O 1
Day 4 W/O 2
Day 5 W/O 1
Day 6 W/O 2
Day 7 No training
Day 8 W/O 1
Day 9 W/O 2
Day 10 No training
Day 11 W/O 1 (max weights for 15 reps)
Day 12 No Training
Day 13 W/O 2 (max weights for 15 reps)
Day 14 No training
Day 15 Begin 10 reps

Any comments would be welcome. Thanks

Gazz
 
Seems feasible to me.

Just some of my thoughts though.

1. 15's every day would get pretty tiresome, even with the lighter weights.

2. 15's everyday would need more energy, unless you plan on using them for cutting.

3. The time frames (36 to 48 hours) are depictions of translation, not fatique related.

4. Central fatique generally takes longer than 48 hrs to recover from. Peripheral fatique only takes minutes.

But overall I could see it working if you planned it correctly, avoid failure.

Would you consider this in the heavier weights also?
 
DKM
Thanks for the response.
[15's every day would get pretty tiresome, even with the lighter weights.]
I,m on my last session of 15's tomorrow. The past few days as the weights have been getting nearer to maximum, my body has been getting more & more sluggish training everyday, full body. I've had to throw in some days off. As I said I believe that the cumulative fatigue must have an huge impact despite the fact that the initial workouts in a phase are sub maximal. I do not understand how various experts can recommend everyday whole body training. I may amend my plan for the 10's to include more rest days.
[The time frames (36 to 48 hours) are depictions of translation, not fatique related.]
Sorry, but I haven't got a clue what you're saying here. As I said I'm new to this & not familiar with HST terminology. Could you expand a little.
[Would you consider this in the heavier weights also]
I suspect that for me personally heavier weights may allow more frequent training. This may sound strange but I find that the higher reps are much more exhausting and seem to make greater recovery inroads than lower reps.
I'd be very interested in the findings of others who have trained full body daily re the degree of fatigue experienced at the different repetition junctures.
Gazz
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (gazz @ Mar. 23 2005,2:16)]I do not understand how various experts can recommend everyday whole body training. I may amend my plan for the 10's to include more rest days.
[The time frames (36 to 48 hours) are depictions of translation, not fatique related.]
Sorry, but I haven't got a clue what you're saying here. As I said I'm new to this & not familiar with HST terminology. Could you expand a little.
Click to expand...
Actually Bryan's and Blade's recommendation is to do 3X Week with AM/PM splits, everyone needs a rest every now and then.

You mentioned that 36 hours allows more recovery, I was simply stating that the 36 to 48 hours as mentioned in the site are an indication of time windows that protein synthesis is upregulated, not an indication of recovery. That's all. A muscle can recover even when loaded constantly, now your CNS that's another story. :)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (gazz @ Mar. 23 2005,3:16)]I suspect that for me personally heavier weights may allow more frequent training. This may sound strange but I find that the higher reps are much more exhausting and seem to make greater recovery inroads than lower reps.
Click to expand...
I've done something similar during the 15s, first 3 days in a row on, one off, then 2 days in a row, one off, then my last 15's workout the next day. Worked pretty well and got my 15's out of the way quickly. I've used different variations of this at different times. The 15's really can take it out of you with all the metabolic work you're going through, I hate my last few 15's workouts.
I can see how every day might be easier with heavier weights/lower reps, as long as your joints hold up. I was trying that in the 10's but my joints didn't like me so I went back to every other day. Getting older I guess :confused:
 
DKM
[I was simply stating that the 36 to 48 hours as mentioned in the site are an indication of time windows that protein synthesis is upregulated,]

So are you saying that protein absorption & utilisation is massively increased : iI've always been led to believe that max protein absorption was 30 gr every 3-4 hours & further ingestion was a waste. I've trained for a lot of years but a bit of a dinasaur & not up to speed onmodern theory. Can you point me to any articles expanding this theory.


[Actually Bryan's and Blade's recommendation is to do 3X Week with AM/PM splits, everyone needs a rest every now and then.]

OK based on my experience with the 15's this may be a better way to go. I'm doing 1 set of about 20 exercises for the whole body (45 minutes workouts). If I train whole body 2X day should I reduce to 10 sets per workout or stay slightly higher at say 15. Also do you recommend 2 whole body in a day or a upper/lower or push/pull split.

Just done my final w/o for 15's tonight & I'm absolutely knacked. Ready to drop down to 10's with lighter load for the first few workouts to enjoy it again (plan to have tomorrow off )

Dood, I'm not too worried about the joints in the 10's or even 5's, because you're not knocking your pan in evertime you train, but feel that the final 2 weeks/negs could be a killer. I'm going to see how they go & possibly look over some threads for a substitute (I'm 47 coming up: the minds willing but the body doesn't always follow).

All the best
Gazz
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (gazz @ Mar. 24 2005,2:30)]So are you saying that protein absorption & utilisation is massively increased I've always been  led to believe that max protein absorption was 30 gr every 3-4 hours & further ingestion was a waste.
Click to expand...
No, you are talking of gastric emptying rate. Protein Synthesis is the building of proteins in the tissue itself, this is turned on by tension or metabolic work and lasts up to 46 hours or so after a workout.

Now this thing about 30g every 3 or so hours, this is non sense, once you ingest anything it takes times for it to digest but that doens't mean that you can only ingest and use 30 g of protein at a time. Folklore.
 
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