Vince Gironda's oldschool info

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by McDee, May 25, 2005.

  1. McDee

    McDee New Member

  2. baby a

    baby a New Member

    If you think HST is only about SD, then you have a lot to read...

    If you quit doing squats just because you are afraid of your butt getting bigger, then I don't even know what to tell you. Well, that is, other than read up.
     
  3. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    From an aesthetic/bb'ing p.o.v., I agree with VG about not wanting to develop the glutes or mid-section to the same extent as upperbody or legs.

    I'm considering dropping deads/squats from my next routine, as I'm pretty much happy with the size I've developed in those areas, or at least only using them thru to my 10RM.
     
  4. mikeynov

    mikeynov Super Moderator Staff Member

    Wow. Guys complaining about their butts being big?

    I've heard of metrosexual, but this is ridiculous. Man up, boys.
     
  5. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Well is your goal to be as big as possible all over, or do you have more specific goals?

    Yeh, my butt (and sometimes I think my legs in general) are as big as I want them to be....so why would I keep training them for size?
     
  6. vicious

    vicious New Member

    Periodically, somebody will bring up one of Gironda's routines that resembles the classic HST template. Somebody could do a search here and find that example discussed pro and con.
    I'd say, though, that layoffs has been a standard part of periodization thinking since the 80s, and most experienced trainers incorporate that as a matter of course into the training. What Bryan did was introduce a unique, very specific context to the application of a "non-active period." SD, RBE, and progressive load are the three legs which supports HST's strain theory.

    The controversy over SD's "uniqueness" is also a reflection of the disagreement over whether this theory really should be distinguished from the progressive overload model that drives strength training. Most skeptics of HST don't think it should. Because they do not recognize the otherness of a hypertrophy-specific language/paradigm from their strength-specific model, they presume HST is a variant of other well-established programs and that the terminology has only rhetorical import.

    I think it's a valid objection because you could certainly describe a HST program and its rule set to somebody else with periodization principles. In fact, many of argued HST is the classic "single-factor" hypertrophy program.

    But, then again, there are lot of tweaking recs that make no sense from a strength-specific point of view. That is, there are elements of HST which cannot easily coexist in a true strength training program. And it also holds true that there are lements of strength training, which may not happily coexist in a hypertrophy oriented program. Seeing, then the imposition of one layer upon the other is the key to understanding their practical differences . . . as well as seeing the method behind all workout design.

    But, yeah, DOMS is the most important thing in the universe. It is the philosophy that which cannot be explained by science. Amen. ;)

    cheers,
    Jules
     
  7. McDee

    McDee New Member

    Ouch! I have to defend myself!

    er, I did say the very basics of HST :confused: I just meant that from what I understand so far HST is a collection of actual "truths" about BB and that it's cool that Vince was on the same track with some of his ideas.

    [​IMG] none of my pants fit anymore and I walk like a freakin duck! seriously tho my core and butt grew the most by a LARGE margin last program. I have an idea of what I want to look like and a distended belly and giant butt isn't part of the picture.

    I just think that the huge look of BBing now isn't for me. I'd rather look like a slightly slimmer Arnie myself.

    lol, In the begining [DOMS] there was [DOMS] DOMS. And it [DOMS] was good [DOMS].

    No disrespect to Bryan, I just think HST works so dang good for me that anyone who came up with any idea even remotely resembling one of the many truths of HST has to be at least pretty dang smart when it comes to BB.
     
  8. McDee

    McDee New Member

    sorry, double post. And here I was thinking "page cannot be displayed" meant that it didnt work... [​IMG]
     
  9. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    No problem on the double post Fat A$$! hehehe. Just kidding. That happens to me too.

    I am actually a 200 pounder hiding in a 185 pound bodyat 5'8" because my a$$ is so flat. It just won't grow. I look great with long pants on but seem to shrink when I put on shorts. However, in a bathing suit I look pretty good. Go figure?
     
  10. I wish I had your problems McDee ;-)

    Guess what the first thing a women looks at when she checks out your body? Your butt. Keep squatting!
     
  11. Curt

    Curt New Member

    I agree with McDee. While for some, it may be your goal to get as large as possible, many of us are training for aesthetic purposes. I have noticed since doing squats my butt has gotten larger. I am thinking about scratching squats, but are there any isolation exercises for the quads? Leg presses have the same effect, right? Deadlifts also hit the glutes, but is it as bad as with squats? I think some size is acceptable in the glutes, but the prospect of having a permanently large rear end is enough to scare me off from squats.
     
  12. ChrisROCK

    ChrisROCK New Member

    Uhhh, seated leg extensions perhaps?
     
  13. vicious

    vicious New Member

    Sissy squats are one option. It's a little cumbersome (and it's not recommended if you have knee issues), but it hurts the quads better than even squats.

    Can anybody recommend a Gironda book? I thought about purchasing the Elitefitness.

    cheers,
    Jules
     
  14. leegee38

    leegee38 Member

    Aside from a few self-published pamphlets like "A Muscle has Four Sides" I think the only real book from Gironda was "Unleashing the Wild Physique", which may have been co-authored by Bob Kennedy. Vince was a very interesting guy. Do you suppose it has something to do with the V name? :D
     
  15. leegee38

    leegee38 Member

    Double post. Technology is so cool ... when it works.
     
  16. Scooper182

    Scooper182 New Member

    Well, if I may join in. Maybe people disagree, but I've always known women to love a big butt. I'm not talking huge fat flabby, but rather one that kinda sticks out in a muscular fashion. What women aren't into are flat buttocks. I say, squat away brother! All my female friends like my results so far!
     
  17. McDee

    McDee New Member

    sure Scooper182, the more the merrier :)

    I agree that women seem to like a muscular butt but in the last year I've went from a flat butt to a bubble butt. My girlfriend loves it I'm just a little surprised at how fast it's growing and considering modifying my exercises to let everything else catch up first.

    My goals are not to have a power lifter body but more like an old school body builder body, idealy would be slightly smaller but similar to Sergio Oliva :)
     
  18. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    How do you know when you're old?


    When someone refers to Sergio as "old school!" [​IMG]
     
  19. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    Hack squats too, either a machine or even barbell hacks.

    I have Unleashing the Wild Physique and it's a pretty fun read.

    Ron
     
  20. McDee

    McDee New Member

    ah, but with age comes wisdom, [​IMG]  [​IMG]
    and discounts!   [​IMG]

    I've said before but I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom OG, now how about sharing some of those discounts!
     [​IMG]
     

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