“To be a Viking you have to eat like a Viking.”

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by Sonny, Sep 28, 2004.

  1. Sonny

    Sonny New Member

    To Mr Nasty
    “To be a Viking you have to eat like a Viking.”
    Forget about all this Low Cal/FAT food and start eating Regular foods.
    You diet looks great for someone who is ‘Cutting’ but not Bulking”.
    You just may need more fat in your diet.
    You maybe like me (or maybe not). I can suck up pig fat all day and have cholesterol levels in and around 175 +-.
    Lets try eating whatever the hell you want (with a few exceptions).
    Not far from where I live is a slaughter house/butchery where I go and stock up
    On some fine cuts of beef.
    Here is what I had last night ………
    Large t-bone ,green beans w/ mushrooms, sweet potato, macaroni with cheese and a beer to wash it down . burrrrp
    I’m 51yo 6’1” 210 lb and can work circles around people ½ my age.
    Do you have a goal on what/where you want to be in a given time period?
    Let me give you an example of how easy it is to deprive yourself from the necessary caloric intake to lose
    A pound of muscle contains 600 cal.
    That being true… To gain 1 pound of muscle a month, and to make a total gain of 12 pounds of muscle a year you would you have to increase your caloric intake by 600 cal’s a month then multiply by 12(one year) or 7200 additional cal’s in one year over and above your maintenance caloric intake just to gain one pound of muscle a month.
    That’s only 19 additional cals a day.
    But the opposite holds true as well.
    To Lose 1lb of muscle a month all you got to do in deprive yourself that 600 cals a month or 19 cal’s a day and your gonna lose that hard earned muscle.
    Starting eating like a Viking and Hit the weights like Thor!
     
  2. Brak

    Brak New Member

    That concept is hi-larious. I too, try to eat like Mr. Nasty, Chicken, shakes, brown rice, whole wheat bread, if bread at all, stay way from potatoes, etc. I really do want to bulk, but, I am already a skinny guy with a bit of a belly and some love handles. Yeah, I know, attractive, skinny guy with a belly. [​IMG] ;)

    So I am afraid of getting bulky and fat at the same time...the good news, I just started my second week of 15s, and I have put on 6 or 7 pounds since I started, and my belt doesn't feel any tighter, I am sure I am gaining fat and hopefully a little muscle, but as long as I don't have to go buy new pants I will be happy. I am just not so sure about this whole eating like a viking thing. I am the type to play it safe and eat more like a health nut , just lots of it. Speaking of food, time to go eat some leftover grilled chicken from last night, with some leftover salad with salmon and jalepeno ranch dressing and some reduced fat triscuits...mmmm.

    Brak
     
  3. Eat like a Viking :D Interesting concept Sonny although I wouldn't suggest this for everyone. Bottom line is it is energy in versus energy out, if you maintain a energy surplus you will gain fat period, the amount and time depends on the amount in surplus. Also Sonny, not disputing the math, but the logic isn't totally complete, a 19 Kcal surplus per day does not necessarily = 1 pound of muscle per month. There are a whole slew of other factors that are not being accounted for here. But overall you are correct to grow you must eat.
     
  4. MrNasty

    MrNasty New Member

    A couple quotes from Brak in the other thread (Monster's thread):
    I'm pretty sure the shakes are close. Lets add things up and find out. 69g protein = 276cals, 60g carbs = 240cals, and 21g fat = 189cals. The total = 705cals a shake. That's not including the bananas and cottage cheese I sometimes put in them as well. So I was close.

    When I initially figured my BMR I was 190 or 195lbs. So it was a bit higher at the time. I am, however, still eating for the 190 or 195 BMR which is almost 3000cals ED. So even with all the extra, I manage to lose. Its the strangest thing -- most frustrating for sure. The only thing I can come up with is the energy in -- the energy out factor as DKM suggested, however, I'm in SD at the moment and still losing. My activity level isn't all that high. So go figure.

    Its funny you mention this; its exactly what I have been thinking. I realized this during my first HST cycle and bumped up all 2wk blocks (15x2, 10x3, and 5x4). So I was, initially, trying to counter attack this problem before I even knew it was going to be a problem. Turns out, we don't even know if this is the problem. Problems, problems, problems....

    I think what it does show, however, is that my body is readjusting itself to a HST style training (i.e., less volume more frequency). Because I obviously made gains. I lost 9lbs, yes, but most of my measurements stayed the same, with the exception of chest and legs (where I probably stored more fat verses arms and shoulder for instance). This could be the mechanical adjustment I initially spoke of in monsters thread -- if that is even feasible. Is a mechanical adjustment possible?

    This too is very likely in my situation. Usually, once stopping gear, as I have, the bodies growth response to any stimulus is decreased. It takes a while for the body to learn how to grow again, on its own (so to speak). I don't know the mechanics behind it, but I have talked this issue over with many Pros and knowledgeable BBers. They too have experienced this side. It often causes many users to stay ON permanently -- they cant handle losing size and become obsessed in one way or another. Year round cycling seems the only solution.

    Aside from all that, I may have some Hormonal problems due to my previous use. This could also effect my gains. I'm not really certain, because I haven't yet gotten blood work done.

    I think Brak hit two very important issues right on the head, ones I had been pondering, but not really addressing. Thanks brak for your time. I appreciate it.

    Now to the thread at hand:
    First, let me thank you for moving my hijack. I was not at all planning or meaning to steel from Monster. I'm sure everyone understands. It happens sometimes.

    Now let me explain to you why I cant eat like I viking.
    1) I'll turn into a giant, over grown, pig beast.
    2) I'm more of a endo/meso (but more endo) body type. I must watch myself/diet.
    3) I don't believe in cutting/bulking and I don't believe one should use a particular diet over another. A diet, as I described -- even though not perfect, should be kept year around, IMO. It is important to eat healthy, period. I don't believe a diet should be dictated by ones goals. I've I'm going to fill my face, I want it to be of the things that count. In other words, I prefer I healthier life style over bulking/cutting/body building or what have you.
    4) I dont know what four is, I'll get back to you.

    Basically, in a nut shell, I'm not fortunate enough to have the luxury of eating what I want, when I want. I'm very sensitive to fat gains. So my diet is what it is, and that's how I eat. If it takes eating more of the foods I already eat to make gains, then so be it -- but I cannot eat like a Viking. Only in my dreams.
     
  5. Sonny

    Sonny New Member

    I’m quoting directly out of the “Bodybuilding Nutrition and Training Manual”. from “Muscle and Fitness”
    This isn’t something I just came up with.
    1 pound of muscle contain 600 cal’s. (Yes or No ?)
    600X12months=7200cal (Yes or No)
    7200 divided by 365 (one year) = 19.72 cal a day. ( Yes or No)
    If MrNasty is doing everything correctly then thats all its going to take for him to lose weight is a mere 19.72 cal a day deficit.
    According to the text (yes or No)
    On a Molecular level this is a mere skimming at best, but just trying to make a point about calories and how a minute change can make a big difference .
    It take a certain amount of “Fat” to make testosterone Right?
    And if he’s been doing roids and also been doing a low fat régime that it maybe his fat intake or lack there of ..Right?
    I total believe that a bodybuilder needs to eat beef to help grow and maintain.
    I like mine on the rare bloody side please.
    I was a giant when I was in my 20-30 ,but now at 50 + I really have to watch what I eat ,but meat ain’t one of them .
    If guy’s continue to eat “Yard Birds” without a piece of beef now and then .
    They are depriving themselves of some important building block for muscle Growth (Yes or No)
    Not only that I’ve been to Tyson Foods in Arkansas and watched them process Chicken and its one of the most disgusting thing I’ve ever seen .
    From the fecal slurry (bath) that they supposable wash it in to the packing department and the flies.
     
  6. I am not disputing your math, as I have not had the time to research it, what I am saying is that there is more to it than just a mere 19Kcal excess daily, there is genetics, type of diet, type of training, length of training, nutrient partitioning, RMR, TEF plus a million other factors involved. So to say eat an extra 19 Kcals a day and you will gain 1 lb of muscle a month is not really all that accurate. In light of this to say deprive yourself the same amount daily and you will lose 1 lb a month is not totally accurate either. But as I also stated, you are correct in the assumption that you need to eat to grow, it is just to what amount.

    To quote a very knowledgeable man who posts here frequently.
    "Your body hates you" ;)
     
  7. Sonny

    Sonny New Member

    I’m only talking about diet not training .
    That’s why I posted it here in the Diet and Nutrition forum
    The points you make are the obvious one that I omitted for the obvious reasons.
    I’m sure that any reasonable person would know that you can’t gain muscle by eating more and sitting on your butt .

    I guess what I would do if I was MrNasty would be have my blood work done and see a nutritionist .
     
  8. Brak

    Brak New Member

    Not to attack, and not to say your math is wrong, but the logic used to arrive at the mathematical conclusions you did seem suspect. For example, my math will be correct in the following, so the conclusion will be mathematically reasonable, but we know it is preposterous: 1 pound of muscle contains 600 calories. So, if you ate 600 (one pound) calories over your BMR every day for one week you would have gained 7 lbs of muscle that week and roughly 28-30 lbs per month. Therefore, a person on a proper bulking diet for six months should expect to gain 168-180lbs of pure muscle. Can't dispute the math, but that doesn't mean the conclusion is true.

    I certainly agree with the eat more beef thing though...if it is lean, it shouldn't be any worse for you than chicken...I just wish it was less expensive to get lean cuts of tasty beef. I've got this little butcher shop near where I work, has the most beautiful porterhouses for only 8.99 per lb, sounds like a great price...until you consider that a meal for my family means 3 of them and weighing in at a pound and a half each it comes out to a fair chunk of change, bummer, they looked so good. I wonder how you'd feel if you visited a beef slaughter-house, I can't imagine it being a lot cleaner or pleasant to visit than Tyson was.

    Brak
     
  9. Sonny

    Sonny New Member

  10. Sonny

    Sonny New Member

    I have raised many “Feeder Steers” and I have taken them to many slaughter houses and have never seen anything that I would feel to be bad about. Mooooo !
    But a chicken market is the pits!
    Cluck!
     
  11. Sonny

    Sonny New Member

    Quote from
    THE PHYSICIAN AND SPORTSMEDICINE - VOL 25 - NO. 8 - AUGUST 97
    http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1997/08aug/muscle.htm
    " Muscle-Building Basics
    Building muscle requires tremendous energy, both to do the muscle-building exercise and to build the tissue itself. One study (Gail Butterfield, PhD, personal communication, January 1997) showed that each day strength-trained athletes needed about 20 calories per pound of body weight (44 calories [kcal] per kilogram [kg]) just to maintain their muscle mass--about 2,800 calories per day for a 140-pound person, 4,000 for a 200-pound person (table 1). Apparently even more--25 to 30 calories per pound of body weight (54 to 66 kcal/kg) per day--is required to build muscle (1,2). "
     
  12. Tom Treutlein

    Tom Treutlein New Member

    No way no how is more than 20x bodyweight in calories needed to grow muscle, unless maybe you're a complete ectomorph, through and through.

    I eat 17-19x bodyweight and grow. I'm a mesomorph.

    20x just to maintain? Hahahaha...right...

    I hate a lot of studies and research.
     
  13. Sonny

    Sonny New Member

    How do you know that you are right and they are wrong?
    How much do you weigh ?
    Just wondering !
     
  14. MrNasty

    MrNasty New Member

    First I thank you all for the replys, however, to remark on Sonny's statment, "nasty needs blood work & a nutritist." I do need blood work, yes I agree, but a nutritionist? Not so much. I am in the process of studing to become a nutritionist. Althought I dont know verything, I dont claim to either, I know he basics and continue to learn daily. I have a pretty good hold on my diet, IMO.

    Also, Your M&F example of 19cals extra a day .... I find that hard to believe. First, it came from M&F. Have you actually read any of their mags? I have 3yrs worth pilled up next to my bed and I can say for the most part that many of their publishings are bullshavic. Not to say their wrong, but definitly inadiquite and over the top for the average BBers or trainee.

    Secondly, as DKM mentioned, building muscle has so much more to do than JUST calorie intake. You cant simply look at one factor while over looking all other's - its not logical. All factors must be taken into consideration.

    Also, I dont eat beef, period. That's just a preferance of mine. I dont like it and, as mentioned, it can be expeincive.
     
  15. Sonny

    Sonny New Member

    Not to be nasty ,but Mr. Nasty
    I figured as much..
    I personally haven’t ever met at bodybuilder that didn’t eat beef that wasn't always complaining about having some kind of problem.
    What do you do! Take some form of man-made zinc?
    Where do you get all the amino and minerals?
    Natural is always better, but it your body!
    I’ve never been sick in my life except for the chicken pox .
    For me my body is first before money
     
  16. Nutritional Requirement review
    http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/127/5/874S

    Another
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....4974441

    A review on Fat and Carbs and their impact on the Athlete
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....4971430

    And of course we must not forget about the impact on immune function
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....4971437

    And don't forget the military view
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....2798783

    Two Newer Protein Reviews
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....4971434
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....5173435

    This one is quit a bit older
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....8303140

    My point with all this it is about energy balance, no more no less, if you eat like a Viking and Grow without a huge accumulation of fat then God Loves Ya, because you got the best available genes from the donors, just be thankful, but don't think because you can means others can. Their Energy requirements most likely differ from yours and their outcome on the Viking Diet very well could and probably will be vastly different.
     
  17. What?

    OK, now you are going off on some extreme tangent which isn't even relavent. Are you saying to grow you must eat beef, if so then I beg to differ. Are you saying to not get sick you must eat beef? Again a preposterous claim. I won't even go into the Amino Acid and Minerals comment.
     
  18. Sonny

    Sonny New Member

    I understand that, but its Mr. Nasty that’s having a problem.
    It appears from all his post that he has tried everything under the Sun except eating beef.
    In addition, in his last post he states that he doesn’t.
    Hence I believe there is where problems lay .
    I would bet that his zinc level in low along with his amino and minerals.
    I’m not a believer in that a pill is always the answer when a natural source is available.
    And most pill supplements are not as readily absorbed as the real thing.
     
  19. Ok, I see. I agree with being natural, but as far what it is a person chooses to eat or not is strictly up to him. It could be earth worms and lizard tails for all I care,

    Lizard Tails it does a body Good :D
     
  20. Sonny

    Sonny New Member

    OK, but I can’t find the nutrient content of worms or lizard tail for that matter
    What other food out there can provide like a piece on beef can?
    NOTHING……..! PERIOD !
    Not Tofu I assure you !
    Here is a link (USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference) to the contents of of beef
    http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
    Key word =beef
    Food Groups= beef products
    If you can find one please let me know
     

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