1 five-rep max vs. 5 one-rep maxes

Yeah... that's not what the crossfit gyms in my state are like. They have strict requirements for gym membership and the membership prices are well above what the regular gyms charge. Attendance to their classes is mandatory and you have to attend at least two a week or you lose your membership. They have drop in fees for non members that are somewhat reasonable but you have to have crossfit experience and they don't allow you to do whatever you want there. Using headphones or even having your phone on you during your workout is not allowed at most of them and all sorts of other crazy stuff that just doesn't make sense to me. If I'm paying to use their facilities, I should be able to train how I like. I also didn't really appreciate going in and having a guy who is considerably smaller than me sit there and belittle everything I've accomplished by saying that you can't make gains on non-crossfit programs unless you use steroids. Pretty much every regular gym I go to when I am looking for a new place is open minded about things and don't try to push their classes or trainers on you too hard.

So perhaps it's doing well in other places, but here in Michigan, it seemed to be all greedy d-bags running the crossfit gyms.
 
a.s.arghmatey said:
Yea, I'm not a fan of elitism. CF guys are better at doing CF. CF won't make you a better marathoner, power lifter, or body builder. You're always going to find folks who think their sport is the better than someone elses. Some people just need to feel superior.

But I digress... Any thoughts on going to failure consistently with high reps?
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It's not going to cripple you or anything so if you do go to failure on the high rep stuff, it's not a big deal. However, there really isn't any good reason to go to failure on the high rep stuff. All you really want to do is get the metabolic work in, so just do enough high rep sets to get the fatigue stimulus and maybe a good pump and then leave it at that. There isn't really much benefit to going to failure, it certainly won't noticeable enhance your growth response.
 
Totentanz said:
Yeah... that's not what the crossfit gyms in my state are like. They have strict requirements for gym membership and the membership prices are well above what the regular gyms charge. Attendance to their classes is mandatory and you have to attend at least two a week or you lose your membership. They have drop in fees for non members that are somewhat reasonable but you have to have crossfit experience and they don't allow you to do whatever you want there. Using headphones or even having your phone on you during your workout is not allowed at most of them and all sorts of other crazy stuff that just doesn't make sense to me. If I'm paying to use their facilities, I should be able to train how I like. I also didn't really appreciate going in and having a guy who is considerably smaller than me sit there and belittle everything I've accomplished by saying that you can't make gains on non-crossfit programs unless you use steroids. Pretty much every regular gym I go to when I am looking for a new place is open minded about things and don't try to push their classes or trainers on you too hard.

So perhaps it's doing well in other places, but here in Michigan, it seemed to be all greedy d-bags running the crossfit gyms.
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On Cross$hit's offical website, it actually states that the 'known'/'proven' methods of successful muscle gains are;

1. Bodybuilding w/steroids
2. Crossfit w/steroids
3. Crossfit w/o steroids
4. Bodybuilding w/o steroids


Ala, powerlifting, recreational lifting, Olympic lifting, strongman etc. all don't exist ...

... and oh yeh, Crossfit is 'known' to be best.

Long live Exercises In Futility.
 
I don't see CF as the solutions for all problems but I think it's fun and deliveries a good balance between strength and cardiovascular performance. It' a good overall activity and being overall it doesn't delivery specific results as a specialty activity such as BB. By this obvious reason I'm still doing HST instead CF...
 
Failure is great only for those who strive to get injured and thus fail.

As for CF, and more specifically snatches, too freaking dangerous for this old geezer. I had to give up Olympic lifting in my late teens due to back injuries from attempting heavy snatches.
 
Totentanz said:
Yeah... that's not what the crossfit gyms in my state are like. They have strict requirements for gym membership and the membership prices are well above what the regular gyms charge. Attendance to their classes is mandatory and you have to attend at least two a week or you lose your membership. They have drop in fees for non members that are somewhat reasonable but you have to have crossfit experience and they don't allow you to do whatever you want there. Using headphones or even having your phone on you during your workout is not allowed at most of them and all sorts of other crazy stuff that just doesn't make sense to me. If I'm paying to use their facilities, I should be able to train how I like. I also didn't really appreciate going in and having a guy who is considerably smaller than me sit there and belittle everything I've accomplished by saying that you can't make gains on non-crossfit programs unless you use steroids. Pretty much every regular gym I go to when I am looking for a new place is open minded about things and don't try to push their classes or trainers on you too hard.

So perhaps it's doing well in other places, but here in Michigan, it seemed to be all greedy d-bags running the crossfit gyms.
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Yeah, I'm in Michigan too (northern LP). We have two Crossfit gyms where I'm at. Well, actually only one is a "Crossfit" gym, but the other one does the same crap but doesn't use the name because they don't want to pay $$ to do so. Anyhow the official Crossfit gym is $100/month for three days per week and the gym that doesn't use the Crossfit name is actually more expensive. Their ****fit gym is actually a new addition to a regular commercial gym. They make you pay for a the normal gym membership + a VIP fee for unlimited classes ($20/month) which you have to have to get "access" to the ****fit area + another $90 to take the ****fit classes. And believe it or not people are paying for it. It is truly unfu**ing believable to me that anyone would pay that much money to work out.
 
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Yeah, it is unbelievable. I don't get it at all. I guess they pay that much because the people working there convince them that this is the only way to workout legitimately and that everyone else who isn't doing crossfit is either weak/small or else on steroids. I still don't understand it. Maybe it is just a Michigan crossfit thing, but the blind obedience of the people shelling over their money for this crap seriously reminds me of cults like scientology. You pretty much have to completely detach your critical thinking processes to buy into the thought that you have to invest thousands a year if you want to get fit.

What blows my mind the most is that what crossfit pushing the most - the idea of GPP - is something you can achieve FOR FREE without even joining a gym.
 
I will say that CF getting more people into resistance exercise in general is a positive step. But that's about all the credit I give it. Cult is still cult is still cult.
 
Obviously, CF isn't for everyone, but the fact that many folks enjoy CF isn't surprising to me at all. There's a lot of clever marketing and it all looks a lot more interesting/fun than moving from one exercise machine to another. The competitive element is there too: many people enjoy pushing themselves to the limit while constantly striving to improve on their CF WOD times. They see progress and they like the results. The whole "community" thing is made a big deal of too. Some people like that aspect.
Any CF gym worth its salt should introduce trainees to powerlifting, weightlifting, and some strongman stuff, as well as some of the easier gymnastic movements. If the trainers are enthusiastic, that will rub off on the clients.
At the end of the day, people consciously choose to pay to train at CF gyms. They aren't being forced to. If they feel that they are getting good value for money from the help they receive from the trainers then what is so bad about that? Same thing would apply to any other paid PT.
Not everyone is as obsessive about training as a lot of us are here (I'm often being told I'm obsessed with training when, to me, it seems like quite a small part of my life), so they tend not to spend as much time reading and researching the subject.
If they stick with CF for a year or so, they may very well get to the point where they want to get properly strong, put on some muscle or focus on some other aspect of training that they enjoy the most. At that point, I'm sure many will investigate their preference more thoroughly.
Eg. At least a few CF trainees have focussed on weightlifting and performed well enough to train with MDUSA and Catalyst Athletics and are being coached by the likes of Glen Pendlay and Greg Everett among others.
 
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Lyle McDonald's pantheon series about why the US sucks at Olypmic weightlifting hit the right end note for me;

CF'ers will one day get their kids into CF, which will get a small % interested in OL'ing early enough, which will result in more OL'ers and better ones.

i.e. the US will have a REALLY shit version of the grinder model that China and the USSR (formerly) have/had. Might produce some results at the top-end of the weight-categories. Obviously no one is taking away golds from China in the lower-weight classes on a consistent basis, ever.

Hell, maybe eventually the US will dope properly just like the Iranian and Kazakhstan teams do.
 
It depends on how your joints and soft tissue feel. Any aches or pains or even slowness in normal movements signals you need to stop and SD. No aches, etc., try negatives but remember there are a limited number of exercises that you can safely do negatives with unless you have some fairly experienced workout partner(s). When in doubt, less or lighter is always safer. You cannot workout if you get injured.
 
a.s.arghmatey said:
Imply that volume spread out over time is equally as effective as volume in on workout. IE 90 reps of a bench press during one workout each week would be the same as 30 reps three times per week for the same weight.

Can the same be said for sets/reps. If I do 30 sets of one rep, would that be as effective as 3 sets of ten?

I assume the answer is no, as I have never seen this suggested. But if anyone can help me understand why I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance :)
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There is a nice write up about this that I have been pondering over. http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/files/prelipins.pdf

In here you get a formula where you can measure fatigue per set. The formula is (Sets x Reps) divided by (100 - Intensity). Sets and reps are self explanatory and the Intensity is defined by the weight's percent of your 1rm.

So if you do a 3 x 5 @ 225 and your 1rm is 315 your fatigue per set is 17.5
If you do a 5 x 3 @ 225 and your 1rm is 315 your fatigue per set is 10.5

While they will both produce the same overall fatigue value you can see that the first set will have a more concentrated fatigue per set.

I have yet to employ this information into my training so the above is regurgitation from the article and the following is supposition, if you track your fatigue per set and total fatigue per workout you will likely see ranges that your body best responds to and leaving those ranges will either result in a less than optimum stimulus or a period of overreaching which will push you towards an SD faster. At the end of September I will finish my 10k training and get back to lifting. I am going to track this and see if it has any value for myself.
 
It's worth being careful here. 3 x 5 x 225 and 5 x 3 x 225 are not the same animals and I disagree that they will produce the same overall fatigue.
The intensity of each set has a bearing on accumulated fatigue. In the example given, the closer 225 is to a 5RM load, the greater the CNS fatigue induced from 3 sets. Obviously, triples with the same load will not hammer your CNS as much and even 5 triples are likely to be less demanding than one or two sets of 5 @ a RPE of 9 or higher.
So, the same overall workload does not necessarily induce the same overall fatigue.
 
I think there is a lot of crap being thrown around lately that makes no sense and belongs on sites like Bodybuilding.Com or Popular Mechanics and not on here. Physical comparisons of measured work performed is great for machines and other objects that do not have a nervous system to factor in. An arm, for example, is not simply a mechanical lever that follows just the laws of physics.
 
I apologize, I don't think I conveyed what I was intending. When I wrote, "While they will both produce the same overall fatigue value you can see that the first set will have a more concentrated fatigue per set." I likely should have concluded that a more concentrated fatigue will require greater recovery. I didn't mean to imply that because they produce the same "fatigue value" when the sets are combined (17.5x3=10.5x5) that they are the same. I meant to express that a 3 x 5 is nearly two times more intense than a 5 x 3 with the same weight.
 
adpowah said:
There is a nice write up about this that I have been pondering over. http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/files/prelipins.pdf

In here you get a formula where you can measure fatigue per set. The formula is (Sets x Reps) divided by (100 - Intensity). Sets and reps are self explanatory and the Intensity is defined by the weight's percent of your 1rm.
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I may incorporate this into my current routine as I am training full body between 5 and 6 days per week and therefore fatigue management is something I will need to do.
 
I have one question for anyone who completely understands this modified version of Prilepins, I train between 5 and 6 times per week based on A/B/C full body routines so for example for chest I do Flat Bench (Mon), Dips (Tues) and Incline Bench (Wed) then one day off then repeat etc. According to the modified version the INOL for the week should be between 2 and 3 (well it says that over 3 is brutal) - should I treat the 3 different exercises I do for chest as though it is just 1 exercise being repeated daily and therefore each daily workout the INOL would be between 0.5 and 0.6 (depending on 5 or 6 workouts per week) to give a weekly total of 3.0?
 
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