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Discussion in 'Training Logs' started by Totentanz, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member


    What's your programming when you do manage to get in?
  2. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    I've just been going a linear progression with a setup sort of similar to DC.

    Something has been kind of tweaky in my lower back for the past month or so. I slept wrong or something one night and my back felt horrible the next day. Did some deadlifts last week and things were ok but when I went up to 405, the first rep felt weird and I didn't want to push it so I stopped. Been doing Rows fairly regularly, not going too much over 225 and keeping reps higher, which seems to make it feel better. Only thing I can think of is that I haven't been doing deadlifts enough this year and combined with my new job, which is at a desk instead of on my feet all day, allowed sleeping wrong to screw my back up.

    Probably going to continue doing the rows but try switching one of my lifting days to just deads, kept relatively light.
  3. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tried doing handstand pushups as recommended by Lol. Hah. I'll have to find a better wall to do it against, didn't work out too well.

    Been slowly dropping weight. Down to 228 today from where I was. Seems like I might be doing some recomp because my love handles have been shrinking, waist is dropping but weight isn't significantly different than it has been.

    Took a picture of a shirt my wife got me.

    Attached Files:

  4. Relictrix

    Relictrix New Member


    Some months ago i also had problems with sleep. It's completely gone now.

    I never tried melatonin, but i read in multiple scientific reports that it does not bring you into deep sleep. It's more a fake pill to give the impression you sleep but it gives not a good quality of sleep globally. That's what i remember now quick by hard.

    Some questions:
    • When and what do you eat before going to sleep as last meal?
    • I also have a friend she also has ADHD. It's more or less the same what she said to me that her mind keeps herself busy all the time. But somehow i never believed she did the maximum to make her sleep better. She did not try all the thing i did for example.
    • Does it feel like you want to fall asleep and are allmost away that something makes you awake?
    • Don't you have stomach acid sometimes? Or sweat at hands or head or feed and very warm around your belly?

    What i changed is this:
    • After reading a book of the person you all know of this forum :), i increased my intake of VIT C. Some days to 2000 mg, i think since i do that i feel more relax in general so also in my sleep. But i don't keep it high all the time. If you take too much, it's will just be removed from your body.
    • I use a energy light from time to time that improves my sleep. The light gives more VIT D in winter because in the winter the light of the sun is less.
    • Sometimes i eat Kiwis, the ingredients of a kiwi also improves sleep according to a some scientific reports.
    • And most important, I eat my last meal 3:30 hours before going to sleep, I still drink but don't eat anymore. Like now if at 19:00 i do a workout i sometimes take a small shake but not to big otherwise it conflicts with my meal. The meal is also just 1 portion, i could eat 2 plates but just take one. So actually i eat a lot in the beginning of the day around noon but then later in day i eat less.
    I guess that when you really want to get the maximum out of your muscles, that is a cat and mouse game. In general i have the impression the cause for me was eating too much and also sometimes bad combinations that made sure the my food of the total was not fast digested and then i was awake. The light therapy is also used with people that have disorders like Borderline Disease and others. It's not like ADHD but it's ye how to say, all in the mind you know.
  5. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Still doing HST, still growing. That arm measurement was cold, after a few days off from lifting. Post-workout is a different story.

    Attached Files:

    Browner likes this.
  6. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    Vanilla HST or a modified version?
  7. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Modified... basically I focus on one or two muscle groups per cycle with increased volume, while dropping volume back on everything else. For the high volume stuff, I do 25-30 reps of heavier work, then 25-30 reps of lighter work. For example, when I focus on pecs and quads, I would do barbell flat bench with 8 RM working up to 5 RM over the course of the cycle, followed by a machine chest press with something between 12-15 RM. Then barbell back squats using 8-5 RM followed by 12-15 RM with single-leg extensions on a machine.
    Everything else, I only do 2-3 sets of 6-8 reps, starting with 12 RM and working up to 8 RM over the course of the cycle. After 6 to 8 weeks, I swap out muscle groups. This time I'd doing lats and hams.

    Alongside that, I've been toying with Brad Schoenfeld's drop set protocol from his recent study. But only for triceps. Basically, start with a 8-10 RM load, go to failure then immediately drop weight by 20% and go to failure again. Drop the weight by another 20% and go to failure one last time. I would only do this protocol on something like triceps or biceps where the loads aren't so insane that going to failure thrice will kill you.
  8. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Ah good to hear from ya Totz, yeah that seems similar to what I do nowadays. I like to specialise two muscle groups and keep others at maintenance.

    And I base alot of training on Schoenfield's research, it's good stuff. Posted a thread recently here about his, well, the three mechanisms purported for hypertrophy but haven't gotten much response. I like to work through these three either within the one workout (can be a bit much at times), or throughout the week (currently doing this).

    Will have to look into that drop set protocol I haven't seen that yet from him, seems similar to Ben Pakulski's NOS (neurological overload sets) from his MI40 program. And yeah I think in that program it's used aLOT and on all sorts of exercises, can be quite overkill if done excessively (which I have indeed done and crashed..)
  9. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    My arms have always been my worst muscle group and I long struggled to get out of the 16 inch range. So hitting a solid 17 without any kind of pump was a bit of a milestone for me. Only difference was that I started doing his drop set protocol. The difference in my triceps is quite noticeable. I'm going to keep it going and see what happens. Sure, sure, dropsets aren't anything new. But I haven't seen a study where they actually compared dropsets with conventional sets as he did in this study. It would be nice to see if something like myo-reps or max-stim where you do insert a bit of a rest would give similar results compared to conventional sets. I suspect we'd see some variation, but conventional sets pretty much suck compared to all the above, so... just wish we had verifiable evidence of that fact.

    This is the study I'm referring to:
    Effects of drop set resistance training on acute stress indicators and long-term muscle hypertrophy and strength
  10. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Ah nice, yeah I struggle in that area too, might give this a go. I would imagine myoreps is similar in effect as it sort of has a similar goal, to maximise time under tension with the type 2 fibres, and thus making more 'effective' reps occur.

    Thanks for the link! What triceps exercise did you use if you don't mind me asking? The study used triceps pushdown, and I was scanning through the study for frequency and it looks like they performed this twice a week. Looks like pretty decent results from one set (with drop sets) twice a week! I wonder if they progressed the weight they used for the exercise, I'll have to read it properly...

    I'm already doing a sort of bis/tris specialisation at the moment while recovering, and doing 3x week frequency and basing it on Schoenfeld's Mechanisms of Muscle Hypertrophy research paper (albeit much much lighter weights as I can't handle much at the moment..).

    But definitely thinking of running something very simple like this for 6 weeks, maybe for two bodyparts at a time or so. Cool stuff!
  11. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    I'm actually doing exactly as they did in the study. Pushdowns twice a week. I can't progress the weight because I start with the full stack, but doing it after main lifts that also tax triceps seems to be more than enough. It's worth noting that I am progressing the volume at least.
    I didn't track measurements at the start, but I'm sure upper arm wasn't any higher than 16.5 at the beginning of August when I started doing this. In fact, I had just ended a cut and I think the measurement could have been as low as 16 inches. I should also note that I am currently bulking. So there would have been some initial growth due to muscle memory just from ending the diet. However... the fact that even after a few days off from lifting, it's still measuring 17 inches tells me that it's probably real growth and not just swelling.

    The dropset method here is kind of painful though. The going to failure three times part isn't so bad. But I get such a pump in my arms after that the skin is stretched tight and I have to get assistance changing out of my clothes. Last workout, I had the wife measure my arm immediately after the workout and it was just a hair below the 18 inch mark. Thinking about trying it for biceps as well using one of the curl machines with a stack so I can change the weight easily.

    I'm also curious to see how it would work using these dropsets in place of metabolic work for focus muscle groups. Something like doing my heavy squat work, then instead of doing 30 reps of light leg extensions, doing this dropset protocol for the leg extensions. I might give that whirl once this current training block is over.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  12. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Ah nice hehe... Yeah I remember doing the MI40 NOS sets and yeah the pump is ridiculous...

    I've done variants of it for biceps and found it easy enough with DBs, I only have two pairs of them though so sometimes had to quickly change the weights on one of them which I guess is not the same as the study with minimal rest. Yeah I reckon it would work really well in place of the lighter sets
  13. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Alright, so here's the plan. Just for fun, just to see what this dropset protocol can do. Going to run a quad/pec specialization next block. Upper/lower split lifting 4 times a week.

    On lower day, I'll do squats for my main quad movement (probably alternating with leg press so I don't have to wait for the rack if someone is using it) for ~25 reps (using 8 RM loads progressing rapidly over a few weeks to 5 RM loads) followed by leg ext using the schoenfeld dropset method, starting with something like a 10 RM load for the first initial set of leg extension.
    I'll measure upper leg circumference before the block starts, then again after 6 or 8 weeks (after a few days off) and see what happens. I neglected squats and deads for a while over the last couple years, and after my most recent cut, upper legs were probably only 26-27 inches if I had to guess. Hoping to get them up to 30s.

    I'll do something similar with pecs. Probably Flat bench then flies, since that's the only pec machine with a stack at the gym. I won't bother measuring muscle group though, too difficult to get good readings.
    _Simon_ likes this.
  14. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Ah awesome, I love experimenting and do it all the time, would love to see how it turns out. And from what I know with dropsets etc it's so paramount to stick with good technique, and keeping tension on the target muscle. It's so easy to lose technique in the latter drop sets when things get tough just to get the reps and that's how injuries can happen, locking yourself down and only contracting the muscle needed is important.. Am considering trying this for bis and tris in my next cycle, everything else HST/myoreps, but see how i go with recovery from everything else.. good luck!
  15. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Looking leaner than usual? That time of year?
  16. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Yeah... I get too hot in the summers over here, and especially when heavier. I was toying with the idea of just cutting down to a lean 100kg and not bulking up again, but you know how that goes.

    Hoping to hit a bodyweight of ~265 lbs/120kg this winter. Might intersperse a few shorter cuts in between there to keep fat under control. I haven't checked where I'm at now, but still pretty lean. I keep getting approached by strangers when I'm out in public, asking me for advice on lifting and crap like that, which is starting to get a little annoying. Thinking about printing out some business cards and just directing them to a website or my email. So I guess I must be making good progress if that's happening. Honestly, now that I work a desk job, it is way easier to bulk up. Obviously not being on my feet the whole day and running means I'm burning less calories. Feel like I'm making better gains than I have in a few years.

    Had a cold or something the past week, so I haven't lifted for about seven days now. Hoping to get back in there today and maybe start my new training block. We'll see what happens.
  17. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    Dang, great arms man!
    cool workouts too. did you ever do a vanilla HST setup?
  18. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks. I did do vanilla HST for a while back in 2004-2006. I'm not entirely sure how long. I used to have all my logs and stuff from back then but lost the data at some point. I've strayed a few times but always come back to HST principles to base my routines on, regardless of the extraneous details.
  19. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    How did that routine work for you back then?
  20. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Honestly... I don't really remember that well. I do know I made some pretty massive gains over the course of the first two or three years. I think I went from ~140 lbs to ~200 lbs, obviously not super lean at 200 though. I think I stopped doing regular HST cycles once I stopped making significant strength gains from cycle to cycle.

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