Back to Basics

Discussion in 'Training Logs' started by Totentanz, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    Really? well your missing out! I used to do rest pause like that, way before myo reps were named, for all muscles, my whole routine.... squats, bench, .. you name it, it was done like that.
  2. Jak1537

    Jak1537 Member

    Wow really? What results did you get from doing that?
  3. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    It seemed to work just as good as equivalent volume, ie 1 set plus 3 rest pauses after did about the same for growth as 4 regular sets.
    It's kind of a form of 20 rep squats for all muscles but using clusters (rest pause is).
    Do a set till it's hard, take a few breaths, do a few more reps, take a few breaths, etc.
    PIT-Force is like that too but they use single reps after the first set just like a set of 20 rep squats but for all muscles.
  4. Jak1537

    Jak1537 Member

    After doing 15s for squats I don’t know how I’d feel about a 20 rep set haha!
    Sounds like a great stimulus for growth though. Still loving the “vanilla” HST at the moment!
    NWlifter likes this.
  5. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    This is funny. Found some measurements I took in 2005:
    Biceps: 14"
    Forearm: 12"
    Chest: 38.5"
    Thigh: 22.5"
    Calf: 15"

    Didn't record weight but I'm assuming this was after bulking for the first while and so I was probably somewhere between 160 to 180 lbs.

    Biceps: 17.5" (worst body part)
    Forearm: 14.5" (lol bigger than my upper arms used to be)
    Chest: 47" (2nd worst muscle group)
    Thigh: 27.5"
    Calf: 18"

    Goal for this year is to bench 400lb for at least a single by year end or die trying.
  6. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    OMG, seriously? Your forearms got larger than your biceps and your biceps increase 3.5 inches??? Are you from Krypton? lol
    Jak1537 likes this.
  7. Jak1537

    Jak1537 Member

    Haha that’s awesome! Gains have been made!
  8. _tim

    _tim Well-Known Member

    Nice work, Tot. The journey to 400 should be a fun one.
    Totentanz likes this.
  9. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    To be fair, those stats are 14 years apart. Ive had a child go from being a toddler to an adult in that time frame, so...

    It's fun to see though. Wish I'd taken more pictures and tracked things a lot better throughout the years.
    Jak1537 likes this.
  10. Mojo77

    Mojo77 Member

    These numbers need to be put in perspective. It is better to talk about relative, percentagewise gains as absolute numbers depend on genetic predisposition.
    Someone with a large, heavy bonestructure having large wrists is able to carry a lot more musclemass and thus boast a lot more volume compared to someone with a light frame.

    It is better to look at FFMI to judge to which extent someones physique has been developed.

    For example, someone with a 6 inch wrist will be able to attain about a 14,3 inch upper arm max at 10% BF
    someone with an 8 inch wrist will be able to attain a staggering 19,1 inch upper arm max, also at 10% BF

    The 14,3 inch arm is however equally impressive, given both trainees will have an FFMI of 25, given they are pretty much maxxed out all over.
  11. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Don’t get stuck into the FFMI = 25 trap. Only applies to a lower bf%. Chuck someone at 20% and they have every opportunity to smash past 25.

    And regardless, the lifting numbers, stats and physique are impressive, all the more so considering the simplicity of the programming.
  12. Mojo77

    Mojo77 Member

    The example is used for standardisation purposes, showing that depeninding on bone structure, 2 people can have an FFMI of 25 while 1 has an upper arm of 14.3 inch and the other has an upper arm of 19.1 inch.
    Even though both are equally muscular, generally, the 14,3 inch arm will be regarded as laughable while the 19.1 inch arm will be met with praise.

    Since both people are equally muscular, and from an FFMI standpoint as you indicate, the thinner guy might even have an FFMI above 25 (but still with arms below 15 inch) indicating he is even more muscular then the bigger guy.

    Conclusion, absolute numbers say nothing at all and are pointless. Aside from the numbers, the overall physique is what counts and thus, the lower BF% are what count and are the goal. As a lean physique will bring out the muscularity and needed aesthetic shape that will make a trainee look larger then he actually is.

    It is a game of illusion in which one should carefully study onseself to assess the weak and strongpoints first. A trainee, for example, boasting small, narrow shoulders... should emphasize a small as possible waist and train especially the lats and side delts to increase shoulder widht while getting as lean as possible to decrease waist size.
  13. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    I'm not really sure what your point is or what you are trying to say. Are you asking a question?

    Numbers absolutely are important though. How else can you judge your progress? Also, using strength numbers against something like the exrx strength standards charts is very helpful in seeing where you stand for your bodyweight.

    Most of your other points about what one should set for goals are highly dependent on each person. Some people don't care about the same things. Some prefer different aesthetics.

    For example, I personally think the lean fitness guy bodytype looks like trash. Big and bulky looks better, more powerful and impressive. So staying under 10 percent bodyfat isn't as important for me. Once you are big enough, you will still have mostly visible abs at 15 percent bodyfat anyway.

    Re: wrist size - this changes as you get bigger. My wrist was around 6 inches back in 2000. Here is me after an all night bender in 1999 or 2000. Judge for yourself whether I had a large or small frame.
  14. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Also not sure how well FFMI applies to outliers. As I've said before, I have a condition that causes unusually dense bones so my frame is actually smaller than someone with a similar amount of overall bone mass. Currently, my FFMI is pretty much at 25 so I shouldn't be able to make more gains without getting fat. But I have no idea how my issue changes that. I'm still making gains without resorting to drug use so far too, so...
  15. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    The point you are making/have made, that numbers are relative is fine, and not disputed.

    But it carries very little relevance or weight in the context of @Totentanz ’s gains. Yes, the numbers themselves need context applied. Well, there’s plenty of that; look at where they started (absolute value), and look at any of his photos over the last three odd years, including the progression picture (8-9 photos in composite from memory).

    And whatever weight the relativity of gains have, none of it seems particularly important to the discussion that directed you here; your focus on TUT.
    Totentanz and NWlifter like this.
  16. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    I'm lost too...
    So Totentanz would be even bigger with longer lasting sets? (TUL) I can't imagine that. Load, work, volume, all that mixes in, people can gain a ton of size even with things like 8x3.

    And sure, bone structure makes a huge difference, but seems to be a range, some seem to start out like peewee herman and grow huge, some start out small and get a 'little bigger', I've seen some guys with 6 inch wrists and 16 inch lean arms, some of us are lucky to break 14.
    Jester likes this.
  17. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Also, @Totentanz - hopefully you’ve lightened up a bit since that picture was taken? ;)
  18. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Yeah having a wife and kids makes it hard to get into that kind of trouble anymore. Plus its not good for the gains, staying up for 24+ hours doing young adult stuff.
  19. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    So I decided I was getting a little too fat. Also, I was getting kind of bored so decided to start slowly cutting. No actual diet. I just don't eat until I get home, so we can call it intermittent fasting, I guess. I've stopped progressing load, sticking with lifting my 5 and 10 RMs for everything.
    Only other change has been cardio before and after lifting. I do a half mile minimum up to a mile if I'm really feeling it on the treadmill before I lift. Then another .5 to 1 mile on the elliptical after I lift. Cut volume by about a third but it varies each day depending on how I feel.

    I've been doing this basically since I last posted. Still working out 4 to 5 times a week except for an unplanned SD two weeks ago due to an illness the kids brought home from school.

    Down to 240 lbs, calipers put me at 11.9 - 12 the level of definition I see in my pecs, delts, and quads is something I haven't seen in a long while so who knows. I tend to try to over estimate on the caliper pinches anyway.

    Probably have to lose another 20 lbs to see the striations that I want to see. Not for any real reason other than I haven't been much under 10 percent bodyfat for a long time so I'm curious what it will look like now. Also to see if I still have the will to cut that far.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
    _tim and Jester like this.
  20. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    People try to tell me I look good all the time but I never really believe them. All I see is baby arms, lats too small, fat, etc.
    But today I finally felt some sort of validation for all my efforts when my six year old son told me I look like a superhero after we watched Avengers. That gave me the warm fuzzies.

    Unfortunately, he thinks I look like Captain America. I was hoping for more like Hulk. I'd even settle for Thor. I guess Cap is alright though.
    Skerr, _tim and Jester like this.

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